What is your take here The LORD's soul (nephesh)

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4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#1
#1
Okay, I wanted to post on this here, asking whether this is correct to point out the LORD (who is Spirit) has a soul, I could have probably use better scriptures I suppose but I think these will do.

The LORD references his own soul here

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

Is this one correct, the LORD expresses the same here concerning Jesus Christ (see both my soul and my spirit) there

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

It speaks of His making Jesus soul an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him (Jesus); he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And after offering himself for sin is shows here

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Just as it says here

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


See what I mean? I am asking for another reason but I wanted to at least establish that correctly first.

Thanks in advance
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#2
#2
4ChristAlone said:
Okay, I wanted to post on this here, asking whether this is correct to point out the LORD (who is Spirit) has a soul, I could have probably use better scriptures I suppose but I think these will do.

The LORD references his own soul here

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

Is this one correct, the LORD expresses the same here concerning Jesus Christ (see both my soul and my spirit) there

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

It speaks of His making Jesus soul an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him (Jesus); he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And after offering himself for sin is shows here

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Just as it says here

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


See what I mean? I am asking for another reason but I wanted to at least establish that correctly first.

Thanks in advance
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Hey.

Well, seeing how you and I have known each other personally for many years, I understand your color codings, so I'll address that first.

Apparently, what you've coded in blue pertains to God the Father, and what you've coded in red pertains to Jesus Christ.

I definitely agree with those distinctions in relation to Isaiah 42:1, 53:10, Psalm 110:1, and Acts 2:36, but I'm not sure who "the LORD" (Jehovah) is in Psalm 11:5. Sometimes that word in the Hebrew refers to God the Father in the Bible, and sometimes it refers to Jesus Christ. There are indicators elsewhere in that psalm that it might actually pertain to Jesus Christ.

Anyhow, your point seems to be that both God and Jesus are said to have souls in scripture, but I'm unsure of your follow-up question or point at the moment.

Can you elaborate?

Thanks.
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#3
#3
Live4Him said:
Hey.

Well, seeing how you and I have known each other personally for many years, I understand your color codings, so I'll address that first.

Apparently, what you've coded in blue pertains to God the Father, and what you've coded in red pertains to Jesus Christ.

I definitely agree with those distinctions in relation to Isaiah 42:1, 53:10, Psalm 110:1, and Acts 2:36, but I'm not sure who "the LORD" (Jehovah) is in Psalm 11:5. Sometimes that word in the Hebrew refers to God the Father in the Bible, and sometimes it refers to Jesus Christ. There are indicators elsewhere in that psalm that it might actually pertain to Jesus Christ.

Anyhow, your point seems to be that both God and Jesus are said to have souls in scripture, but I'm unsure of your follow-up question or point at the moment.

Can you elaborate?

Thanks.
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Yes, you followed correctly, I wanted to show the soul, because we all know God is Spirit right? But it also shows he has a soul, and so I was searching for specific verses to show this

Isaiah 42:1 Shows both his soul and his spirit in relation to Christ also

So yeah, I am building one layer (trying to establish one layer of a thing) and go from there

Thank you.

Okay but I should change out that Psalm one then huh? Not the best verse to use there?
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#4
#4
4ChristAlone said:
Yes, you followed correctly, I wanted to show the soul, because we all know God is Spirit right? But it also shows he has a soul, and so I was searching for specific verses to show this

Isaiah 42:1 Shows both his soul and his spirit in relation to Christ also

So yeah, I am building one layer (trying to establish one layer of a thing) and go from there

Thank you.

Okay but I should change out that Psalm one then huh? Not the best verse to use there?
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Here's Psalm 11 in its entirety:

Psalm 11

[1] In the LORD put I my trust: How say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
[2] For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
[3] If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
[4] The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
[5] The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
[6] Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
[7] For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Again, sometimes "the LORD" (Jehovah) refers to God the Father in the Old Testament, and sometimes it refers to Jesus Christ.

In verse 4, we see the LORD in his holy temple, and we read about his throne, but that could pertain to either the Father or Jesus.

In verse 6, we read of how the LORD shall rain snares and fire and brimstone upon the wicked, and this could also pertain to either the Father or Jesus.

In verse 7, we read how the LORD loves righteousness, and this could also rightly apply to either the Father or Jesus.

In either case, one of them has a "soul" (vs. 5), so the verse does apply to your overall point, but I cannot tell you with certainty whether it applies to the Father or Jesus in context.
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#5
#5
Live4Him said:
Here's Psalm 11 in its entirety:

Psalm 11

[1] In the LORD put I my trust: How say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
[2] For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
[3] If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
[4] The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
[5] The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
[6] Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
[7] For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Again, sometimes "the LORD" (Jehovah) refers to God the Father in the Old Testament, and sometimes it refers to Jesus Christ.

In verse 4, we see the LORD in his holy temple, and we read about his throne, but that could pertain to either the Father or Jesus.

In verse 6, we read of how the LORD shall rain snares and fire and brimstone upon the wicked, and this could also pertain to either the Father or Jesus.

In verse 7, we read how the LORD loves righteousness, and this could also rightly apply to either the Father or Jesus.

In either case, one of them has a "soul" (vs. 5), so the verse does apply to your overall point, but I cannot tell you with certainty whether it applies to the Father or Jesus in context.
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Oh yeah because Jesus came out from God and the LORD saying to My Lord is also God making Jesus Christ and Lord and we know the Word was made flesh before that point (before he ascended I mean). But what is most important (regardless of who) before Christ came is that it does speak of the LORD's soul, so God who is Spirit has a soul.

Now we know Jesus (who was made flesh does) but before all of that it is showing the LORD has a soul

Thats what I wanted to be sure that I can establish above all else.

Would you agree this can be found to be the case here?
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#6
#6
4ChristAlone said:
Oh yeah because Jesus came out from God and the LORD saying to My Lord is also God making Jesus Christ and Lord and we know the Word was made flesh before that point (before he ascended I mean). But what is most important (regardless of who) before Christ came is that it does speak of the LORD's soul, so God who is Spirit has a soul.

Now we know Jesus (who was made flesh does) but before all of that it is showing the LORD has a soul

Thats what I wanted to be sure that I can establish above all else.

Would you agree this can be found to be the case here?
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Yes, BUT many will argue that this is merely a case of what is called "anthropomorphism".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphism

anthropomorphism
noun

an interpretation of what is not human or personal in terms of human or personal characteristics : HUMANIZATION

In other words, anthropomorphism is basically attributing human traits or emotions to a non-human entity...in this case, God the Father.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with that assessment, but I'm letting you know what to expect from some here.
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#7
#7
Live4Him said:
Yes, BUT many will argue that this is merely a case of what is called "anthropomorphism".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphism

anthropomorphism
noun

an interpretation of what is not human or personal in terms of human or personal characteristics : HUMANIZATION

In other words, anthropomorphism is basically attributing human traits or emotions to a non-human entity...in this case, God the Father.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with that assessment, but I'm letting you know what to expect from some here.
Click to expand...

So pointing out a scripture that shows the LORD has a soul means "anthropomorphism":unsure:
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#9
#9
So this is called anthropomorhism?


Judges 10:16 And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul (nephesh) was grieved for the misery of Israel.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Jerm 5:9 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 6:8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul (nephesh) depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.

Jerm 9:9 Shall I not visit them for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

This is bad to point out? lol
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#10
#10
We can sweep it under the rug, I dont want to be guilty of this anthropomorphism

Whats the penalty for being guilty of this particular ism? LOL
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#11
#11
Hey, I never said that I agreed with the assessment of some.

I've never really studied this particular topic, but it seems to me that since we were created in God's image and likeness, then it makes sense that he has a soul.

Let the executions begin...lol.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#12
#12
4ChristAlone said:
We can sweep it under the rug, I dont want to be guilty of this anthropomorphism

Whats the penalty for being guilty of this particular ism? LOL
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Banishment to bogeyland.

Been there.

Done that.

Bought the t-shirt.

lol.
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#13
#13
Live4Him said:
Hey, I never said that I agreed with the assessment of some.

I've never really studied this particular topic, but it seems to me that since we were created in God's image and likeness, then it makes sense that he has a soul.

Let the executions begin...lol.
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You heretic LOL
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#14
#14
Live4Him said:
Banishment to bogeyland.

Been there.

Done that.

Bought the t-shirt.

lol.
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Just be there to post my bail
(when I was in prison you posted my bail) LOL
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#16
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#16
4ChristAlone said:
Okay, I wanted to post on this here, asking whether this is correct to point out the LORD (who is Spirit) has a soul, I could have probably use better scriptures I suppose but I think these will do.

The LORD references his own soul here

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

Is this one correct, the LORD expresses the same here concerning Jesus Christ (see both my soul and my spirit) there

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

It speaks of His making Jesus soul an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him (Jesus); he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And after offering himself for sin is shows here

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Just as it says here

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


See what I mean? I am asking for another reason but I wanted to at least establish that correctly first.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Jesus was fully human but equally fully God with the connection of soul and spirit. It is Jesus's connection to the flesh and the very reason we were in Genesis created in their (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) image.


Matthew 26:38
New International Version
38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#17
#17
@Live4Him

Let me ask you another question are you of the understanding that one means the same or in unity, did I ask that correctly?

I am trying to learn what others mean by it verses what the scripture teach, for example

Jesus said,

I and my Father are one.

And he also prayed that we would be also (even as he and the Father are)

They may be one, even as we are one

But when he said,

I and my Father are one.

Are they saying the same one or united as one since Jesus says

I am not alone, because the Father is with me

Even as it says,

For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell

Just as he asks Philip

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself

Is Father dwelling in Christ understood to be just Jesus by some or as Jesus said, I am not alone?

Is the oneness here understood to be the same, or is the oneness understood to be unified?

I dont know what other people think, I dont (as you know) spend much time looking over the details of what others believe about certain things, I only know their wrath of I dont feel the same way LOL
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#18
#18
Roughsoul1991 said:
Jesus was fully human but equally fully God with the connection of soul and spirit. It is Jesus's connection to the flesh and the very reason we were in Genesis created in their (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) image.


Matthew 26:38
New International Version
38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
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Fully in what way just in respects that we know he was with God in the beginning and was God and was made flesh and that he is the same in that respect? Because on another level he did say he could do nothing of himself, so he emptied himself and did everything through His Father.

See I have trouble understanding what fully means, why do people use that word.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#19
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#19
4ChristAlone said:
Okay, I wanted to post on this here, asking whether this is correct to point out the LORD (who is Spirit) has a soul, I could have probably use better scriptures I suppose but I think these will do.

The LORD references his own soul here

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

Is this one correct, the LORD expresses the same here concerning Jesus Christ (see both my soul and my spirit) there

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

It speaks of His making Jesus soul an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him (Jesus); he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And after offering himself for sin is shows here

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Just as it says here

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


See what I mean? I am asking for another reason but I wanted to at least establish that correctly first.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...


It's anthropomorphism.

The above verse's use the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) this refers to the Godhead in unity (Immanent (Ontological) Trinity). Unless you mean soul as in person hood?

You need to be careful how you switch from the substance and essence of the triune Godhead and the hypostatic union. Jesus is fully human and fully God. So in his human nature he does have a body and soul. (The verses you have shown above refers to the triune God. ''the Lord our God is one'' -YHWH).

So when referring to the Godhead in unity (YHWH), the soul referred to is Anthropomorphism. or possibly person hood. but not a separate soul. and it's not Jesus' human soul.

Hope that has helped. These things where the some of the big debates in the early church.
 
4

4ChristAlone

Guest
#20
#20
And let me clarify he created the worlds so its hard to believe he is NOT divine, May never imparted that to him (he created her) and he was made flesh also so its hard to believe he was not a man either. When I ask about the word "fully" I mean in full strength (by himself) to be able to act upon above a man (in his incarnate position)

Did I say that right? I know I have to be careful because I could lose my head if I misstep on a word and be doomed here LOL
 
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