Do agnostics go to hell?

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crossnote

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I think many if given a second chance would believe, especially if they see Him face to face. Paul, who was a worse person than Lazarus, prior to conversion, had plenty of second chances and finally converted when he saw Jesus face to face. I think the same type of conversion can take place, even if the opportunity took place after death. Paul was very lucky.
Sure, I had been given a 2nd, 3rd 4th etc. chance, but the question is, 'does a 2nd chance happen AFTER a person has passed from this world?
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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I don't want to waste more time on this so here is an article from Got Questions?...

I do like the website: www.gotquestions.org but, there are holes in their theology at times. Let's take a look at some of them....:unsure:

Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

ANSWER

While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances. The idea of purgatory, a place where people go after death to pay for their sins, has no biblical basis, but is rather a tradition of the Roman Catholic Church.
Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Upon death, a saved soul (dies IN Christ) goes to Paradise and a lost soul (dies without Jesus Christ) goes to Hell but, Hell is not the FINAL Judgment. The Lake of Fire is the FINAL Judgment.

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

No souls perish in Hell, they are only tormented to a point of wailing and gnashing their teeth. The only place of perishing is the Lake of Fire at the FINAL Judgment.

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 16:31 King James Version (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Both of these verses in Romans and Acts explain how to be saved...by believing the Truth that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Savior and receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord because we love the Truth and want to be saved and be with God forever.

To understand what happens to nonbelievers after they die, we go to Revelation 20:11-15 which describes the Great White Throne judgment. Here takes place the opening of the books and “the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” The books contain all the thoughts and deeds of those being judged, and we know from Romans 3:20 that “by the works of the Law is no flesh justified.” Therefore, all who are judged by their works and thoughts are condemned to hell. Believers in Christ, on the other hand, are not judged by the books of works, but their names are found written in another book—the “Lamb’s Book of Life” (Revelation 21:27). These are the ones who have believed on the Lord Jesus, and they alone will be allowed to enter heaven.
Revelation 20:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Romans 3:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Revelation 21:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

No one is saved or can be saved without saving faith in the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ - the One and ONLY Savior. Jesus Christ is The Lamb's Book of Life...being saved IN Christ, we are IN His Book of Life.

The Lake of Fire is the second death - it is the FINAL Judgment, Hell is not. The false prophet and antichrist will be thrown immediately into the Lake of Fire alive and they will immediately perish - that's immediate judgment.

No souls perish in Hades (Hell) and we know that Jesus Christ has the keys to Death and Hades. He is able to go in and out of Hell whenever and however He chooses to do so. If a lost soul in Hell cries out on the Name of Jesus Christ, Jesus CAN go get them.

Hell is like a threshing floor.....God is threshing souls on Earth and even in Hell for every last one of us...whosoever will, come!

I'll stop here and make a Part 2 so I don't exceed the limit on a post. :love:(y)
 

crossnote

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Upon death, a saved soul (dies IN Christ) goes to Paradise and a lost soul (dies without Jesus Christ) goes to Hell but, Hell is not the FINAL Judgment. The Lake of Fire is the FINAL Judgment.
Tell that to the rich man, he asked for MERCY and got none. Even his request to have Lazurus go warn his brothers were not heeded.

Luke 16:24-25 (KJV) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:29-31 (KJV) Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Please don't make long posts. I don't well with them.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Thank you for your kind reply, I enjoyed all your scriptures!

The depth and height of God's Love and Mercy for the lost soul is absolutely amazing! :love:(y)
oh indeed his love for all
His creation meets the measure of
Majesty my friend in him

“For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;

that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:14-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Some speak as if God's love is so encompassing that He is reduced to a jolly ol grandpa saying "Everyone! I love you so much, come in to my Kingdom. forget about my son suffering and dying for your sins, just believe I forgive you regardless". "Don't listen to those meanies that warn of eternal fire (they are whacked) and the necessity of believing the Gospel. Hey, when you see me in Judgment, you'll believe then, and then we can sup together".

People, no greater love has God showed than that He sent His Son to die for your sins. There is no being born again in hell, the time is now, don't listen to these false prophets giving you false hope as in Jeremiah's day.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Here's Part 2:

I don't want to waste more time on this so here is an article from Got Questions?...

Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

ANSWER (continued)

The key to understanding this is the Lamb’s Book of Life. Anyone whose name is written in this book was “saved before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4) by God’s sovereign saving grace to be part of His Son’s bride, the church of Jesus Christ. These people need no “second chance” at salvation because their salvation has been secured by Christ. He chose us, He saved us, and He will keep us saved. Nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8:39). Those for whom He died will be saved because Jesus will see to it. He declared “all that the Father has given me will come to me” (John 6:37), and “I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand” (John 10:28). For believers, there is no need for a second chance because the first chance is sufficient.
Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Romans 8:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

I was NOT saved before the foundation of the world. I was saved when I chose with my free will to believe, receive and love the saving faith of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ. Now, I am predestined IN Christ to inherit eternal Life. The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. God in His sovereignty put His Mercy Safety Net in place because He knew we'd have a choice and we'd make the wrong one. He loves us so much, He loves to give us chances. The FINALITY of our free will to choose Life or Death is not until the Great White Throne of Judgment.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn’t they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds “are at enmity” against God and won’t accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn’t have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham’s answer says it all: “And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third, or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.
Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

In this parable, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees and how they have the writings of Moses and the Prophets and do not listen to them. Jesus spoke this to warn them that they will even deny Him (Jesus Christ) when He rises from the dead and they will end up in Hell tormented because they did not believe in Jesus Christ the Messiah the Human fulfillment of the Law and the fulfillment of all the prophets had written.

Dying without faith in Jesus Christ is a ticket to Hell but, again Hell is NOT the second death which is the Lake of Fire.

If I do not have Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior by the time of the Great White Throne of Judgment, then I will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and there are NO MORE chances at that time.


Philippians 2:10-11 declares “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it will be too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.
https://www.gotquestions.org/second-chance-salvation.html
Philippians 2:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Only AFTER the Great White Throne of Judgment, now it's too late for salvation, all that remains for the unbeliever is perishing in the Lake of Fire.

======================
In conclusion, God greatly desires us to know Him and to love Him. Love must have a choice. We have the capacity to love but, must choose to do so.


God is coming for all those that love Him. Focus on loving and knowing God passionately. No worries about trying to understand everything....just keep seeking to know and to love God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
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I think many if given a second chance would believe, especially if they see Him face to face. Paul, who was a worse person than Lazarus, prior to conversion, had plenty of second chances and finally converted when he saw Jesus face to face. I think the same type of conversion can take place, even if the opportunity took place after death. Paul was very lucky.
Paul was chosen
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Tell that to the rich man, he asked for MERCY and got none. Even his request to have Lazurus go warn his brothers were not heeded.

Luke 16:24-25 (KJV) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:29-31 (KJV) Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Please don't make long posts. I don't well with them.
Dear crossnote, I do apology for the long post(s). I usually don't like them either but, I had to respond to the "got questions" article.

You're a joy to discuss scripture with! :love:(y)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
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Some speak as if God's love is so encompassing that He is reduced to a jolly ol grandpa saying "Everyone! I love you so much, come in to my Kingdom. forget about my son suffering and dying for your sins, just believe I forgive you regardless". "Don't listen to those meanies that warn of eternal fire (they are whacked) and the necessity of believing the Gospel. Hey, when you see me in Judgment, you'll believe then, and then we can sup together".

People, no greater love has God showed than that He sent His Son to die for your sins. There is no being born again in hell, the time is now, don't listen to these false prophets giving you false hope as in Jeremiah's day.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Here's Part 2:



Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Romans 8:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

I was NOT saved before the foundation of the world. I was saved when I chose with my free will to believe, receive and love the saving faith of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ. Now, I am predestined IN Christ to inherit eternal Life. The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. God in His sovereignty put His Mercy Safety Net in place because He knew we'd have a choice and we'd make the wrong one. He loves us so much, He loves to give us chances. The FINALITY of our free will to choose Life or Death is not until the Great White Throne of Judgment.



Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

In this parable, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees and how they have the writings of Moses and the Prophets and do not listen to them. Jesus spoke this to warn them that they will even deny Him (Jesus Christ) when He rises from the dead and they will end up in Hell tormented because they did not believe in Jesus Christ the Messiah the Human fulfillment of the Law and the fulfillment of all the prophets had written.

Dying without faith in Jesus Christ is a ticket to Hell but, again Hell is NOT the second death which is the Lake of Fire.

If I do not have Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior by the time of the Great White Throne of Judgment, then I will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and there are NO MORE chances at that time.




Philippians 2:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Only AFTER the Great White Throne of Judgment, now it's too late for salvation, all that remains for the unbeliever is perishing in the Lake of Fire.

======================
In conclusion, God greatly desires us to know Him and to love Him. Love must have a choice. We have the capacity to love but, must choose to do so.


God is coming for all those that love Him. Focus on loving and knowing God passionately. No worries about trying to understand everything....just keep seeking to know and to love God.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:11-13, 19-20‬ ‭

This is the understanding he gave to know him and live

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you are right in your conclusion amen knowing Jesus Christ as he presented himself , learning from God himself is how we can begin to know him , to know ourselves , Amd understand our relationship to him and our role in his kingdom
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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I think many if given a second chance would believe, especially if they see Him face to face. Paul, who was a worse person than Lazarus, prior to conversion, had plenty of second chances and finally converted when he saw Jesus face to face. I think the same type of conversion can take place, even if the opportunity took place after death. Paul was very lucky.
I agree. Paul heard Stephen preach a whole sermon about Jesus Christ the Messiah and still Paul did not believe until Paul encountered Jesus Christ face to face on the road to Damascus.

Only Jesus Christ can go into Hell and speak to the lost souls there.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Sure, I had been given a 2nd, 3rd 4th etc. chance, but the question is, 'does a 2nd chance happen AFTER a person has passed from this world?
I believe it is possible because Jesus Christ has the keys to Death and Hell; He is the ONLY Savior; and no souls perish in Hell; the FINAL Judgment is the Lake of Fire.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I was NOT saved before the foundation of the world. I was saved when I chose with my free will to believe, receive and love the saving faith of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ.
I was saved 2000 years ago on a hill called Calvary. BTW, how'd we get on this? LOL
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I believe it is possible because Jesus Christ has the keys to Death and Hell; He is the ONLY Savior; and no souls perish in Hell; the FINAL Judgment is the Lake of Fire.
Just because no souls perish in hell doesn't mean they get a 2nd chance in hell. Again, The Rich man and Lazarus. (Lu 16).
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Do agnostics go to hell?
Sure they do. All the unbelieving and all the liars go to Hell.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jesus died on the Cross for a reason. Man is born into a hopeless state and needs redemption. Playing the dumb-dumb card will not help. If you are reading this, consider yourself warned.
 

Scarlett7297

Active member
Mar 28, 2020
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That's not what I asked.

That has no bearing on the Gospel or the stark reality of a hell.

That only proves a wrong presentation of the Gospel can have negative effects.

Is that an admission you don't believe there is a hell? Jesus took God's wrath upon Himself so we don't have to spend time in hell.
"Huge words about religion?". What huger words can there be than the great rescue of God through Jesus from our sins, s

But offering people a 2nd chance as you do, diminishes the urgency of the message and conveys a false sense of security..."Don't worry, you can do what you want not, (live in unbelief) for you'll have another chance after you die physically

I would never direct a person to YouTube preachers. If they have a sensitive mind, i.e. fear God, fear hell, etc., then they would more than likely embrace the message of the Gospel where God freely forgives them on account of Christ.

I have, I have been a Christian counselor counselling young in the faith and struggling for over 30 years, many of those years was living in residence with the troubled individuals (drugs, emotional problems etc.).
But we can't formulate our beliefs on past painful experiences.
You can look at my previous posts, I never add to the sufficiency of Christ's perfect obedience, death and resurrection for the gift of eternal life taken by faith. You'll never see me add our works to what Christ has done FOR us.
That only proves a wrong presentation of the Gospel can have negative effects.
Yes thank you.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
Why is the Lake of Fire even more tormenting when compared to Hell, rather than places of equal torment?
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
Tell that to the rich man, he asked for MERCY and got none.
Maybe he will get mercy at the Final Judgement. It's not like he can go from hell to heaven, or hell to earth at that point.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
Can one enter Heaven with mustard seed faith (I believe many would fall under this category) or does he need great faith? Any thoughts?