Who is the beast that was and is not?

[Ahwatukee]

I was just reading about something that sounds like this in Ezekiel.

It starts in Ezekiel 30 when God says to speak to Pharaoh of Egypt. It goes on through Chapter 31. It goes on into Chapter 32 and it's a lamentation. It goes on into more chapters. Chapter 30, God says he's going to break the arms of Pharaoh. Chapter 31, he describes the tree that grew high with long branches and was going to be cast down. He says this tree is Pharaoh. In Chapter 32, God will bring him up out of the rivers and throw him in the open field. It's a lamentation for Pharoah.

A good place to get more information on the antichrist, that coming king, is to read Daniel chapters 7 and 9:24-27, as well as others. I'm just giving you some off the top of my head. You will see the similarities mentioned in both Daniel and Revelation. For example, compare:

"He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time. (Daniel 7:25)

"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. (Revelation 13:5-7)

a time = one year, times = two years, half a time = six months = 3 1/2 years

42 months = 30 day month increments 42 times = 3 1/2 years

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

A good place to get more information on the antichrist, that coming king, is to read Daniel chapters 7 and 9:24-27, as well as others. I'm just giving you some off the top of my head. You will see the similarities mentioned in both Daniel and Revelation. For example, compare:

"He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time. (Daniel 7:25)

"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. (Revelation 13:5-7)

a time = one year, times = two years, half a time = six months = 3 1/2 years

42 months = 30 day month increments 42 times = 3 1/2 years

I found my way to Daniel from your last reply. Also, I think God's prophesies against Pharaoh of Egypt is also similarly speaking about the beast too. Ezekiel Chapters 30-34 or 35.

As for numbers, dates, times, I just don't know. It may seem very clear to you, but I haven't really been given any "light" on these mysteries. At least not directly from my studies. Perhaps from all of you that do understand these things. I'm trying to soak up wisdom here and there at this forum.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Yes, that is the verse that I figured you were using. Notice that prior to that he is referring the "spirit of antichrist."

As I was saying, the spirit of the antichrist are those who deny that Jesus is the Christ. However, there is an individual person prophesied of who is to be revealed in the end times as that coming antichrist. So there are many who have a spirit like that of the antichrist, denying the Father and the Son. And there is a specific individual who will be thee antichrist who is prophesied of.



Well, I respect your honesty in this. It does take time in the word and prayer to understand these things, because it is the Holy Spirit who reveals them to us. For Jesus said regarding Him, "He will bring to your remembrance everything that I have told you and will reveal things yet to come."

Revelation 13 describes both the the first beast which is the antichrist and the second beast who is also referred to as the false prophet as revealed in Rev.16:13 & 19:20.

Another twist on this is the angel who is the beast who once was, now is not and yet will come. Where the antichrist is a literal man, this beast that comes up out of the Abyss is a fallen angel, as revealed in Rev.9:11 as the king of those demonic locusts at the sounding of the 5th trumpet. He's the same one that, after he has come out of the Abyss kills the two witnesses (Rev.11:7). He is also mentioned in Rev.17:8 & 11.

I believe that the antichrist/man of lawlessness, is the one who will establish his seven year covenant with Israel (Dan.9:27). And then when the beast, that fallen angel is released from the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet which is just prior to the middle of the seven years, he, that beast/angel will come up out of the Abyss and will be the spiritual power behind the antichrist which is when the antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel by causing the daily sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. So I believe that there are two entities intertwined here, the antichrist who is a human being and the beast who is the angel of the Abyss who will empower him.

There are some who claim that Satan is the beast who comes out of the Abyss. However, that would mean that he would have been restricted in the Abyss from John's time to the present, which I do not believe. Satan will not be restricted in the Abyss until the Lord returns to end the age, which takes place after God's wrath has completed and which has not yet begun. In addition, Rev.13 states that Satan will give his power and authority to this coming beast/angel, which demonstrates that they are two individual fallen angels.

"And the dragon (Satan) gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

The second beast with two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon, is the false prophet who will be the false religious entity of the group, who will perform miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast i.e. for the purpose of lending credibility to his claim of being God. I personally believe that this false prophet will be played by a future pope. I believe that the Roman Catholic church is that woman who rides the beast, i.e. that last day false religious system. Rome is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth at the time John was receiving that information from the angel. She is the one who sits on seven hills. And it states that the woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, which are the exact colors that the bishops and cardinals wear.

Thank you for all that. I see this is more clear to you than me, but your explanation is helpful. I know of the places you're making references to in the Bible.

I've heard people speculate that Mohammad was this beast or person. The pope (pick your choice) was this beast or person. Hitler, etc. I've heard much discussion on the Catholic church being this Whore of Babylon.

But, I've kind of perceived that the Catholic church has lost tremendous power and influence in the world. Appearance wise, it fits. But, I think that many Catholics are "scattered sheep" right now. Maybe a sign to look for is someone that might bring about a change in that and cause people to "flock" back to the church.

Secularism seems to be a new wisdom with its own dogmatic followers. Secularism seems to consolidate and centralize power and remove faith in our almighty Lord God such that an evil beast might be attracted to. For instance, many years ago, when Congress opened with a prayer, one of the things they said in that prayer was to acknowledge the Lord God and the "paths to whom are many" would be the kind of thing the evil beast would say.

Would not a totally atheistic and secularized world with consolidated, centralized power at the very top not be the "church" that this evil beast might be creating?

This is wild speculation on my part. We think of church as a "spiritual body," but with a raging antichrist that is trying to dominate the world, it seems spiritualism and faith would be the things it would attack the most.