Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Regarding "the land"...

[see again Zech9:11-12 - "11 As for you, because of the blood of My covenant, I will release your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your stronghold, O prisoners of hope; even today I declare that I will restore to you double." Plus the other related verses I placed at the two links, in a previous post... like Ezek37's "dry bones" prophecy "11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts" , etc... ]

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

One Nation with One King

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

--Ezekiel 37, the "dry bones" prophecy



[inserting: this passage LIKENS this UNTO *a RESURRECTION* (not physically/bodily from the dead), JUST AS does Romans 11:15[25], and Hos5:14-6:3 and Isa26:15-21 and Dan12:1-4,10 and...]





"And it shall come to pass, that in the place where IT WAS SAID UNTO THEM,' Ye are not my people'; there SHALL THEY be called the children of the living God." - Romans 9:26 (speaking of "Israel" in *this* verse... namely, Israel's "FUTURE" )

 

[Truth7t7]

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

You take one verse and the word (Inheritance) and try to build a doctrine, contrary to its context "Why"?

The scripture is very clear, the seed of Jesus Christ was a "Promise" to Abraham, and not by inheritance of the law, it's that simple

Galatians 3:16-29KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[CS1]

The everlasting land covenant comes with the everlasting covenant of circumcision.
But the circumcision covenant is only everlasting through Christ - the circumcision of the heart.
Ergo to have the land as an everlasting covenant, the Israelites need the heart circumcision - to worship Jesus as the King and high priest of Israel.

interesting because the promise to Abraham was made to him before he was circumcised. The circumcision was the effect of faith not the cause of faith

 

[Truth7t7]

The everlasting land covenant comes with the everlasting covenant of circumcision.
But the circumcision covenant is only everlasting through Christ - the circumcision of the heart.
Ergo to have the land as an everlasting covenant, the Israelites need the heart circumcision - to worship Jesus as the King and high priest of Israel.

Ok "what everlasting land covenant", and once again "scripture please"?

 

[Truth7t7]

The everlasting land covenant comes with the everlasting covenant of circumcision.
But the circumcision covenant is only everlasting through Christ - the circumcision of the heart.
Ergo to have the land as an everlasting covenant, the Israelites need the heart circumcision - to worship Jesus as the King and high priest of Israel.

Is what's amazing is (OldSage) has a join date of (Oct 23 2020) with 75 posts, and wouldn't you know it, all 75 have been posted in the past 4 days, with every post being in this thread, now that's a big mystery

 

[OldSage]

Regarding "the land"...





11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

One Nation with One King

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

--Ezekiel 37, the "dry bones" prophecy



[inserting: this passage LIKENS this UNTO *a RESURRECTION* (not physically/bodily from the dead), JUST AS does Romans 11:15[25], and Hos5:14-6:3 and Isa26:15-21 and Dan12:1-4,10 and...]





"And it shall come to pass, that in the place where IT WAS SAID UNTO THEM,' Ye are not my people'; there SHALL THEY be called the children of the living God." - Romans 9:26 (speaking of "Israel" in *this* verse... namely, Israel's "FUTURE" )

I think Ezekiel is talking about the return from Babylon

 

[OldSage]

Is what's amazing is (OldSage) has a join date of (Oct 23 2020) with 75 posts, and wouldn't you know it, all 75 have been posted in the past 4 days, with every post being in this thread, now that's a big mystery

Why?

 

[Truth7t7]

Why?

Big Smiles

 

[OldSage]

I don't see that it makes any difference

Gen 17
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

interesting because the promise to Abraham was made to him before he was circumcised. The circumcision was the effect of faith not the cause of faith

 

[OldSage]

The land covenant and the heart condition go hand in hand. As long as Israel stays stuck in the Old Covenant mentality, I think it will be continual bloodshed. Once God circumcises the heart, then the domestic problems will disappear. So once the Jews accept Jesus, I think this craziness will come to an end. I think we are in the days where the 'gentile' mandate is coming to end. The Mosaic Law Jews are having lots of tragedies right now. I am persuaded that God will be redeeming the Jewish people soon, very soon.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't see that it makes any difference

Gen 17
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

If God made an everlasting land covenant with Abraham it was broken, because Israel as a nation has been taken from the promised land several times since the Genesis 17 covenant, how do you explain That?

 

[Truth7t7]

I am persuaded that God will be redeeming the Jewish people soon, very soon.

Many are "Blind" to scriptural truth as presented before your eyes, Israel/Jerusalem will see the future fulfilling of the Gentiles for 42 months Rev 11:2, and the future slaughter of 2/3 will be cut off and die Zechariah 13:8, Luke 21:21-22

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Zechariah 13:8KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Luke 21:20-23KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

 

[OldSage]

If God made an everlasting land covenant with Abraham it was broken, because Israel as a nation has been taken from the promised land several times since the Genesis 17 covenant, how do you explain That?

Yes, but these expulsions always happened under Mosaic law. It even took them 40 years just to get a foot in the land, because they were not a faith people, but a Law for stubborn people people.

But even though they were exiled the last time for 1875 years, they still came back.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It cannot be an everlasting possession though under Mosaic Law.
Under Mosaic Law Israel has been ejected twice from the land.

In the Moab Covenant God explicitly warns Israel.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

So really I cannot see Israel lasting there unless they embrace the Abrahamic covenant (Christ) under whom the
promise was made.

Furthermore - what is an idol?
Could a belief in land ownership be an idol? I would have thought so.
If it comes without a proper attitude to God.

It’s not through the mosaic covenant, it is through the abrahamic covenant, those where the passages I posted

lev 26 gives the requirements and punishment of what will happen if they disobey, including what happened in babylon, assyria and rome, but it also states what will happen if they repent, even after they were scattered.

its still an eternal covenant

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You didnt answer the direct question, once again

Do you believe the words (Seventy Weeks) below are literal weeks of (Four Hundred Ninety Days) Or Do You Have A Symbolic Representation Of The Literal Words (Seventy Weeks)?

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Do you believe it was only 70 weeks for the first part of the prophecy true? To finish the transgression?

Weeks translated to

7620. shabua ►

Strong's Concordance​

shabua: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week

Then the end of the prophecy references the 7 year tribulation.

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You Can Deny That The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

You Can Deny The Fact That (National Ethnic Israel) Of The "Flesh", These Are Not The Children Of God

I'll Keep Posting This Biblical Truth, Read It Again

Jesus Christ fulfilled the promises and covenant made to Abraham, the Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed, it's that simple

The promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, read it again and again

Jesus Christ is the promised seed, and his children are the Church

Galatians 3:16-29KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)

(1) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

(2) National Ethnic Israel

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

They which are the children of the flesh (Jews) these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

That’s what I though

you deny eternal.

good day sir. i will no longer feed your flesh by responding to your nonsense

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you would say 7t7 that the inheritance is the land of Israel, but there is neither Jew nor Palestinian, but only Christians and non-Christians?

Then why is the church not living in peace in the land is what I ask.
if the church is obedient it should rep the rewards

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I Believe Scripture Is Very Clear On The 70 Weeks, They Are Literal And Future, And Will Be The Sign And Warning Of The Pending (Man Of Sin/Antichrist) To Follow

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

But this isn't the structure that the Angel put forth why only in this case we see seventy sevens structured this way and not as simple as just stating a number?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isreal - defeated and scattered by Assyria
Judah - defeated and scattered by babylon
Israel - defeated and scattered by Rome

all based on Lev 26’ read

And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

God warned them it did not just happen.

but even after this, God left room for repentance. And said, if you confess and admit your sin, he will remember the promise

40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land.

the people who refuse to accept the fact Gods covenant with Abraham Isaac and jacob concerning the land, refuse to acknowledge this passage, which PROVES that covenant is in effect even today even after they were punished

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think Ezekiel is talking about the return from Babylon

He could not be

1. they were not made one nation
2. They did not have a king, they were still slaves to the Medes, then the Greeks and finally rome
3. they never repented truly
4. They did not completely return, even in the time of Christ many still lived in gentile nations

the prophecy has to be 100 % fulfilled for it to be fulfilled, anything short does not count