meaning of MAKE EVERY EFFORT (or strive) to enter in through the narrow gate.

[JohnRH]

Colossians 2:9-15 is the clear description of Jesus cutting out, removing forever, the "sinful state of a person" . . . .which is Sarx.

The circumcision in Colossians 2 is a one time event that has permanent results.
Being "in" the Spirit and not "in" the flesh, in Romans 8:9 is also permanent. Both passages describe the quickened person's unfaltering position.
By contrast, "Walking after" the Spirit and not "walking after" the flesh in Romans 8:1, 4, & 5 is not positional; it's practical.
The quickened person's unfaltering position is "in" the Spirit. The quickened person's faltering practice is "walking after" the Spirit.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The circumcision in Colossians 2 is a one time event that has permanent results.
Being "in" the Spirit and not "in" the flesh, in Romans 8:9 is also permanent. Both passages describe the quickened person's unfaltering position.
By contrast, "Walking after" the Spirit and not "walking after" the flesh in Romans 8:1, 4, & 5 is not positional; it's practical.
The quickened person's unfaltering position is "in" the Spirit. The quickened person's faltering practice is "walking after" the Spirit.

The quickened person? Well how about that. You just taught me something again. You just changed my understanding of the KJV translation of Col 2:13.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The circumcision in Colossians 2 is a one time event that has permanent results.
Being "in" the Spirit and not "in" the flesh, in Romans 8:9 is also permanent. Both passages describe the quickened person's unfaltering position.
By contrast, "Walking after" the Spirit and not "walking after" the flesh in Romans 8:1, 4, & 5 is not positional; it's practical.
The quickened person's unfaltering position is "in" the Spirit. The quickened person's faltering practice is "walking after" the Spirit.

is this true ? Just the context and understanding of what Paul’s teaching here I mean ?

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13, 16-17, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

isn’t Paul teaching us that the phrase “ walk in the flesh “ is to serve sins will basically and of we continue on in sin we’re not going to inherit the kingdom ?

so that would mean Paul was preaching this

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-43‬ ‭

Notice they are taken out of the kingdom ? It’s not that they weren’t in they were cast out like Adam for the same reason

 

[JohnRH]

isn’t Paul teaching us that the phrase “ walk in the flesh “ is to serve sins will basically and of we continue on in sin we’re not going to inherit the kingdom ?

The phrase "walk in the flesh" isn't in Galatians 5.
The ones who do the works of the flesh and shall not inherit the kingdom of God, are the ones who are "under the law" (v. 18).
Those who inherit the kingdom are not under the law.

 

[CharishHaroon]

JohnRH says there is no such thing as the sinful nature. The flesh is the sinful nature; the old man is the sinful nature.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I’m talking about what Jesus said about salvation

So then yes you ARE talking about renewing the mind after salvation,thanks.

 

[CharishHaroon]

I agree with you. Entirely.

But the old commentators,
Matthew Henry: 'If any habitually live according to corrupt lustings, they will certainly perish in their sins, whatever they profess.'
Barnes: 'For if you live ... - If you live to indulge your carnal propensities, you will sink to eternal death; Romans 7:23.'
Matthew Poole: 'If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die; viz. eternally, and never partake of the glorious resurrection before spoken of. The godly themselves need this caution; they must not think, that because they are elected and justified, &c., that therefore they may do and live as they list.'
But John Gill clarifies, as seen in https://tebeth.wordpress.com/2021/05/22/gills-exposition-of-romans-8-13/

Nobody has responded to the above, what the old commentators have said about Romans 8.13.
I wonder why.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

is this true ? Just the context and understanding of what Paul’s teaching here I mean ?

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13, 16-17, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

isn’t Paul teaching us that the phrase “ walk in the flesh “ is to serve sins will basically and of we continue on in sin we’re not going to inherit the kingdom ?

so that would mean Paul was preaching this

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-43‬ ‭

Notice they are taken out of the kingdom ? It’s not that they weren’t in they were cast out like Adam for the same reason

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Paul was saying don't try to be saved using the the old covenant law which was about purifying the flesh.

The law of liberty Is about the two commandments where the person believed In WORD of GOD manifested In the flesh (JESUS) and GOD has done a work In the person and now they love GOD and their neighbour.

 

[JohnRH]

JohnRH says there is no such thing as the sinful nature. The flesh is the sinful nature; the old man is the sinful nature.

'Sinful nature' is an interpretive narrowing-down of the actual biblical word, 'flesh'.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

A person trying to adhere to the law of liberty using the ten commandments which was about purifying the flesh will end up being brought Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In their flesh.
Romans 7:20-23
King James Version

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[CharishHaroon]

I believe that sinful nature and flesh mean the same thing. People may not understand what flesh means, but they do understand what the sinful nature is.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

JohnRH says there is no such thing as the sinful nature. The flesh is the sinful nature; the old man is the sinful nature.

It's a pretty simple concept to understand. The entire Bible revolves around this affliction and the fact that Christ redeems us from that same affliction.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Nobody has responded to the above, what the old commentators have said about Romans 8.13.
I wonder why.

Well, I'd rather talk with you folks than reading commentaries. The many, many translations that I have and use seem to be best. I disagree with most controversial ideologies that are found in commentaries.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

'Sinful nature' is an interpretive narrowing-down of the actual biblical word, 'flesh'.

It's the same thing.

 

[CharishHaroon]

It's a pretty simple concept to understand. The entire Bible revolves around this affliction and the fact that Christ redeems us from that same affliction.

We are circumcised spiritually, true! But we are under the responsibility of mortifying the deeds of the flesh, Rom 8.13; Col 3.5.

The whole problem with Christians is that though they have a 'new nature', they live by their 'old nature'. They are not under the control of the Holy Spirit; they go by the thoughts, imaginations and dictates of their own heart - and in most often, their old nature (the sinful nature, the flesh) governs them. They have not accepted the (subjective work of the )Cross in their lives!

 

[CharishHaroon]

Well, I'd rather talk with you folks than reading commentaries. The many, many translations that I have and use seem to be best. I disagree with most controversial ideologies that are found in commentaries.

I have several translations too. The commentaries are not of the 20th Century, or this iniquitous 21st century. The old commentators had reverence for God: Matthew Henry, Alfred Barnes, Matthew Poole, John Gill. They were all men of God. Further, they studied the original Scriptures in depth, knowing both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[JohnRH]

It's the same thing.

No it's not.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2 (KJV)
If you substitute 'flesh' with 'sin nature' in this verse (and in others), you make a boo boo.
Flesh has a broader range of meanings.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

We are circumcised spiritually, true! But we are under the responsibility of mortifying the deeds of the flesh, Rom 8.13; Col 3.5.

The whole problem with Christians is that though they have a 'new nature', they live by their 'old nature'. They are not under the control of the Holy Spirit; they go by the thoughts, imaginations and dictates of their own heart - and in most often, their old nature (the sinful nature, the flesh) governs them. They have not accepted the (subjective work of the )Cross in their lives!

"Romans 8:8-9 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

How can the Old Nature remain if the Purpose of Christ is to cut it out and remove it entirely? The Sin Nature is gone for the True Christian.

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

Col 2:11 is the point and Purpose for Christ coming to earth . . . vastly more important that John 3:16.

And what is a True Christian? It is the same thing as a True Jew.

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - 28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

If a person hasn't had a change of Heart, they remain deceived and that means that the Old Nature has never been defeated by Christ . . . they have not been set apart from the Law (a Nazarene). And if this is true, that is when Jesus will say,

Matthew 7:23 CSB - 23 "Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers! '

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No it's not.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2 (KJV)
If you substitute 'flesh' with 'sin nature' in this verse (and in others), you make a boo boo.
Flesh has a broader range of meanings.

Keep studying, John.

 

[CharishHaroon]

"Romans 8:8-9 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

"How can the Old Nature remain if the Purpose of Christ is to cut it out and remove it entirely? The Sin Nature is gone for the True Christian."

Are you denying the flesh that is still in you? This is a shocking statement to say that 'The sin nature is gone for the true Christian'. You are denying the Word of God. You are rejecting the New Testament and all its warnings against walking in the flesh, sowing to the flesh, etc.

Good heavens, I should get out of this ChristianChat if I hear such shocking, reprobate statements made by so-called 'christians'.