Why Covid 19 When We Have Healing Power

[Absolutely]

THIS is A HARSH BUT TRUE INDICTMENT ON THE CHURCH.

In an age when so many people are Naming and Claiming healings and victories and are boasting of having so much POWER, PROSPERITY, and MIRACLES..'.

Why has the Covid 19 virus ravaged the world?????? WHY has so many people died???
A lack of faith??????

Does anyone else believe that the Neo-Pentecostal originating at Azuza St. has done more HARM to the Gospel and the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ than the Catholics during the dark ages. The Catholic's destruction was outright visible and UNPRENTENTIOUS, BRUTAL AND CHRISTLESS.

It seems to me that the Pentecostal Charismatic false teaching has harmed God's church in a very subtle way.

How ignorant.

The assemblies of God as well as Church of God in Christ are direct offshoots of azusa street revival.

 

[Major]

How ignorant.

The assemblies of God as well as Church of God in Christ are direct offshoots of azusa street revival.

And you are saying that because you do not think anyone else knows that.???? THAT is the definition of ignorant.

 

[Major]

I appreciate that you are speaking from your own experience, and I left the Pentecostal movement in 1978 because I became disillusioned with it though the conduct of people in the church I attended.

But you are speaking of things that are part of a minority within the Charismatic movement. When I left my Charismatic church in 1978, I joined up with the local Anglican church which was traditional enough to have an Archdeacon in oversight. But within it, I meet a group of Angican Charismatics who were quite a different kettle of fish to the ones I left. It showed me that there were other types of Charismatics who were nothing like the Charismatics whom I became disillusioned with.

Over the years in 1978, I have fellowshipped with Baptist and Presbyterian churches, the last of the latter I became an elder and served 23 years with it. In all that time, I retained my Pentecostal theology, because I learned that it was not confined to the Pentecostal church but was totally Biblical. But how to manifest the gifts of the Spirit in non-Charismatic churches was something I had to talk a lot with the Lord about. I was able to give prophecies every once in a while by saying to a person, "If Jesus was here, He might say this to you..." Because the approach was non "Pentecostal", KJV or dramatic, those prophecies were fully accepted as a "love" letter from God to encourage the person. Although I continued to pray in tongues in private, I never spoke it in the services (and that is what Paul taught anyway). When I preached (as Presbyterian elders can), I did not hide the fact that the spiritual gifts were for today and that we should seek the Lord about how we can release the Holy Spirit to manifest them, and not one person complained that I was trying to push Pentecostalism on them. In fact, at one time, when there was a fear that some local Pentecostals were going to come and push Pentecostalism, I told the minister to refer them to me and I would put them straight. He appreciated that.

I am now part of a Methodist/Presbyterian Union church that if 20 people turned up on Sunday morning it would be a revival. The minister was all into the social Gospel and saving the planet rather than preaching the Gospel. I was given opportunity to take services and preach, and we had a good discussion beforehand, and I did not hide my Pentecostal background. His response was that he welcomed a range of different faiths in his church and had no problem with me preaching the gospel. One service was interrupted by a random guy who came in and spoke a bit of gobbledygook and spoke a few sentences in tongues. After the service the minister, a couple of others and I talked about it and I explained what tongues is, and that the fellow was misusing it by speaking it to us in the way he did. I said that the gifts of the Spirit are for today, but not in the way that the fellow was trying to use it.

So, no doubt, there is the lunatic fringe within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement. The relative freedom of expression and way God is worshiped in the movement gives rise to more freedom for the lunatics to express themselves. That is one of the unfortunate aspects of the movement. But although there might be one or two in a Pentecostal church who would be like that, the majority of the congregation know who they are and work their best to shut them down if they go over the odds disrupting services.

But I would say that there are many more people sleeping through cessationist church sermons than there are lunatics in good Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. And there are many more liberal non-charismatic churches that deny the resurrection of Christ, virgin birth, and even the divinity of Christ and never preach the gospel at all, than there are pseudo-charismatic groups that preach the prosperity doctrine and accept kundalini manifestations as part of their integral worship.

If if the whole Pentecostal movement is going to be tarred and feathered for the sake of a few shonky ones, why not do the same to all Anglican, Methodist and Presbyterian churches for the sake of the ones who accept homosexual ministers and follow the teaching of Bishop Spong who denies the resurrection of Christ and reduces the Christian faith to a set of personal morals?

Why not reject all Baptist churches because of the Westboro Baptist church that hates "fags" and insults those in the military who have fought and died for America?

Then we would arrive at the attitude that only your church and mine are the only good ones, and I am not sure about yours!

Yes, I agree. There is always one bad seed in every crop no matter what the crop is.

IF what I am saying is a "minority" I would not say anything. However, I do not think that is the case.

Westborro is NOT a Baptist church. It is a cult of lunatics.

I for one do not have any problem with emotionalism or expression. The problem I have it when those things replace BIBLE Doctrine.

Example......

1). The AOG teach a false plan of salvation which requires human effort to get to Heaven.

The following quote from the official Assemblies of God website is really bad theology. ...

To carelessly participate in sin, expecting to gain forgiveness later, is itself an act of backsliding that will lead ultimately to losing one's salvation. We therefore reject any "once saved, always saved" doctrine that excuses sinful lifestyles.
SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)​

2). The AOG teaches that we can lose our salvation after being saved.
"Once saved can mean forever saved–if one continues in faith, growing in sanctification and holiness day by day. But God will not arbitrarily usurp mankind's free will. Our sovereign God does not overrule free will just to prove He is sovereign. [emphasis added] ...
SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)

3). The AOG teaches that "IF" you are saved then you WILL speak in tongues.
The Bible no where says such a thing.

4). The AOG teaches that there is a 2nd Blessing where we then receive the Holy SPirit.
The Bible says that we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit when we hear and believe upon Christ.

ANYONE.....ANYONE can believe whatever that want to believe. God gave us all the freedom of choice. I just hate to see good peole make bad choices based on wrong teaching.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 .....
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the LORD Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables"

 

[Absolutely]

What has any of that got to do with the point of this thread?????????? NOTHING!

The point is real simple......Those who promote and preach FAITH healing, such as Benny Hinn, Richard Roberts, why are they on TV instead of going to hospitals and emptying them of everyone????

Everyone...EVERYONE has their own pet story of how they saw a healing miracle, a man cured of cancer, a leg that grew to the correct length!

With all of these healing miracles that everyone testifies to......why is there NO ONE actually going to hospitals and healing the dieing?

THAT is the question? THAT is the point.

WHY talk, talk talk and NO action seen???

Have you ever looked up the healing verses?

Of course not.

When you do and see Jesus promoting far more radical faith healing FOR IS HIS FOLLOWERS, be sure and start a thread on how far off Jesus is.

 

[Major]

"
Divine Healing That Wasn't
(keep in mind most of these folks teach it is God’s will to heal you every time you are sick)

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer. He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination. How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others . . .

0. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement. One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it always being God's will to heal His children. Died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. Copeland teaches that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory. This is a lie. He died from disease.

1. John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston - his wife, Dodie got liver cancer and through the mercy of God and medical attention survived. John Osteen is more sound today than when he initially began with the renewal movement, he is probably not as much a WOF teacher as he used to be.

2. Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and was medically treated (chemo-therapy) and by the mercy of God was patched up. "If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along, then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
I guess after all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching by one of the movements leading faith teachers was not enough for Fred’s wife - she needed a doctor after all.

3. Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author - died of cancer. He was under a medical doctors care.

4. Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality - his wife got cancer and was medically treated.

​

I don’t deny the existence of disease. I deny the right of that disease to exist in this body, because I’m the Body of Christ." The Tongue p. 43.​

I guess Chuck’s wife must have not spoken the right magic words to keep the cancer from her body.
5. John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," - just died from cancer. He too, was medically treated - no "power" healing for him, only chemo-therapy.
5a. Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer. Mahesh is supposed to have "healed" people of cancer and AIDS - yet there was no "healing" for Chris.

6. Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer, getting medical attention.

7. R.W. Schambach, Faith Healer - got a quadruple heart bypass (from a real live human doctor)

​

"You don’t have any problems, all you need is faith in God."​

Maybe so, but isn't it nice that He has provided doctors too? Without them, R.W. would have long ago faced his judgment.
8. Dr. Hobart Freeman, Word of Faith teacher & pastor of Faith Assembly - over 90 people died in his church following his teaching and then Hobart died due to a medically treatable disease.
I personally respect Hobart & his misguided followers. They actually took the teachings of the WOF movement to their logical conclusion. They stood on the "promises" alone and believed in their doctrine enough to face painful deaths instead of refusing to deny what they believed. Hobart Freeman is the most chilling testimony of the complete bankruptcy of the WOF errors. If WOF teachings were true they would have certainly worked for Hobart and the 90+ people who died in "faith believing." (BTW - Hobart is a name NONE of the WOF'ers mention, he was too serious about the teachings).

9. Joyce Meyer, the fast rising Word of Faith female preacher. On Aug. 31, 1998 on her morning broadcast admitted that she had breast cancer and was MEDICALLY TREATED. I found her admission to be very interesting.

9. Prophet Keith Grayton, Prophetic Movement - died of the complications of AIDS He spoke at our Church in Detroit, and declared he was totally healed. He died a year or so later.

10. Kenneth Hagin, "father" of the Word of Faith Movement - sister died of cancer, (he wears glasses as does his son). Hagin’s great faith and special anointing could not keep her on the planet or his eyesight from growing dim.
10a. Hagin's sister died from cancer.
10b. Hagin's wife had to go to the hospital for an operation even though Jesus "appeared" to Hagin and gave him a special anointing to heal the sick (read I Believe In Visions). If people believe Hagin is anointed then they will be healed, I guess his own family members doubt his healing powers.

11. Robert Tilton, God's "profit" admitted he had to get special face-lifting surgery because of the danger of getting ink poisoning from laying on all the prayer requests he received. Why didn't he command healing . . .like he does for countless others over the airwaves?"
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/sick.htm

ALL you just posted is HISTORICAL FACTS. However, YOU know as well as I do that those on this site who read what YOU and I post will attack us PERSONALLY for posting facts instead of realizing that the thing that are involved in just may =not be a God thing at all.

Kathryn Kuhlman was woman "healer" who, when sick, went out to Tulsa to the number one "healer," Roberts--to die., and she did.

When Jack Coe died of cancer we were reminded by Dr. John R. Rice, "Healers die, too!"

One wonders why Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts must wear glasses. If healing is in the atonement and is available for all who believe, why did they just not have faith for the healing of their eyes? Again and again, we have heard of people who were supposedly healed in these charismatic meetings--only to die a bit later from the same disease.

Early in his ministry, Oral Roberts insisted he had raised a number of people from the dead. One instance was a woman who came running up to him during a service saying that her baby died during his sermon. After much publicity on this, Roberts, a month later, was hedging and admitting that perhaps the baby was not really dead when when the mother brought him (or her) up to him.

Here then is the problem......Though many Charismatics, by their own admission, do not claim to be fundamentalists, the pagan writers and commentators enjoy lumping us all together. Thus the money-grabbing covetous and immorality that has come to light among Charismatics has reflected upon Christians everywhere.

The sex scandals, blackmail, lavish indulgences, name-calling, drug-taking, in addition to the fleecing of listeners and "fans" out of millions of dollars supposedly going to God's work, has become a shocking fiasco to many and the laughing stock of all time to the unbelieving and skeptical world.

 

[Major]

Have you ever looked up the healing verses?

Of course not.

When you do and see Jesus promoting far more radical faith healing FOR IS HIS FOLLOWERS, be sure and start a thread on how far off Jesus is.

When...WHERE did I say that Jesus did not heal?????

Jesus healed...GOD heals.......But NO man has the ability to heal as we see on TV with Benny Hinn and Tolton, and Roberts as there is NO PHYSICAL HEALING found in the Atonement of Christ.

God heals through the prayers of His children...when He chooses and not Katheryn Kullman.

 

[Absolutely]

And you are saying that because you do not think anyone else knows that.???? THAT is the definition of ignorant.

You just learned that didnt you?
You did not know the assemblies and COGIC were a direct offshoot of azusa.
Sad you indicted that


But now you know.

 

[Absolutely]

When...WHERE did I say that Jesus did not heal?????

Get into the word.

I am pointing out how JESUS instucted us to do what he did.

He did not say exclusively "pray and i will do it" he said it is given to us to go out and do what he did..

Eternally cannonized in the bible

You are welcome.

 

[Major]

You just learned that didnt you?
You did not know the assemblies and COGIC were a direct offshoot of azusa.
Sad you indicted that


But now you know.

Are you serious my friend.?????

I do not know of anyone who DOES NOT KNOW that.

I guess you did not know that many scolars have traced the beginnings of the AOG to a time BEFORE Azuza st.

The historical fact is that The first believers to receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the 20th century were students at Parham’s Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, which he opened in 1898.

Charles F. Parham (June 4, 1873 – c. January 29, 1929), together with William J. Seymour of Azusa Street fame, was one of the two central figures in the development and early spread of American Pentecostalism. Often called the ‘father of the Pentecostal Movement’, Parham is most well-known for clearly defining the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the role of speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands. He was also the person from whom Seymour first heard of the Pentecostal message.

 

[Absolutely]

I think that if anyone chooses to read this about Benny Hinns healings..........

"Though he has held hundreds of crusades over the years. Hinn’s supposed healings still lack verification. When Hinn provided Christian Research Institute with his three best-documented cases, the results were utterly unimpressive. “All three cases are poorly documented and confused,” wrote Hank Hanegraaff of CRI. “If evidence like this is the best Hinn can muster after years of healing —-then there is no credible evidence that he has been involved in a bona fide healing.” [Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity in Crisis (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1993, pg. 341)]
Source: #1 Benny Hinn’s Fake Healings – Fool's Gold Today (wordpress.com)

Hank hannegraff HATES anything to do with the Holy Spirit.

He ended up embezzling and plagurizing.

He definately got a payback .
He earned it.

 

[Major]

Get into the word.

I am pointing out how JESUS instucted us to do what he did.

He did not say exclusively "pray and i will do it" he said it is given to us to go out and do what he did..

Eternally cannonized in the bible

You are welcome.

Really.

WHAT Scriptures tell us that Jesus commanded YOU and me to heal people.

WHAT specific Scriptures tell us that PHYSICAL HEALING is in the ATONEMANT of Christ??????

 

[Absolutely]

Are you serious my friend.?????

I do not know of anyone who DOES NOT KNOW that.

I guess you did not know that many scolars have traced the beginnings of the AOG to a time BEFORE Azuza st.

The historical fact is that The first believers to receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the 20th century were students at Parham’s Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, which he opened in 1898.

Charles F. Parham (June 4, 1873 – c. January 29, 1929), together with William J. Seymour of Azusa Street fame, was one of the two central figures in the development and early spread of American Pentecostalism. Often called the ‘father of the Pentecostal Movement’, Parham is most well-known for clearly defining the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the role of speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands. He was also the person from whom Seymour first heard of the Pentecostal message.

I have read much about azuza.

But i do not read those toxic antichrist article and people you read.

Very nasty and toxic.

 

[Absolutely]

Really.

WHAT Scriptures tell us that Jesus commanded YOU and me to heal people.

WHAT specific Scriptures tell us that PHYSICAL HEALING is in the ATONEMANT of Christ??????

You just revealed you do not know much about healing.

 

[Absolutely]

there are over 60 healing verses

 

[Major]

Hank hannegraff HATES anything to do with the Holy Spirit.

He ended up embezzling and plagurizing.

He definately got a payback .
He earned it.

LOL>>.......SO did did the BAKERS, and so did Robert Tilton.

What did you think your point was my friend.

What you did did is commonly called a DELECTIVE SMOKE SCREEN.

 

[Absolutely]

....but in your circles ....not many.
Probably 4 or so

 

[Major]

there are over 60 healing verses

Post ONE and we can do the exegesis on it. By the way......make sure it is the one where Jesus commands us to do the healing.

 

[Absolutely]

LOL>>.......SO did did the BAKERS, and so did Robert Tilton.

What did you think your point was my friend.

What you did did is commonly called a DELECTIVE SMOKE SCREEN.

Lol
Just showing you that YOUR GUY is a crook.
Yet another thing you learned today

 

[Major]

....but in your circles ....not many.
Probably 4 or so

NO one my young friend is saying that GOD does not heal!

You are trying to alter the actual words of the thread.

GOD heals.......BENNY HINN and RICHARD ROBERTS DO NOT!

 

[Absolutely]

Post ONE and we can do the exegesis on it. By the way......make sure it is the one where Jesus commands us to do the healing.

Mat 18 :18,19.

Try it sometime.