TONGUES TODAY

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Well, you make me feel almost "agnostic." Jesus was vexed to be asked to show signs and miracles and I always believed the reason for that was because ignorant people who didn't care enough to read his words or scriptures would tempt him for miracles and wonders. He called them an evil generation.

Think about it: If he came up to me at a water fountain today and declared himself to me, I wouldn't dare ask him for a miracle or a sign.

Of course, he won't come up to me like that, he will come from the sky and all eyes will see him.

Will I argue with you about miracles and signs? No. I don't tend to believe them whereas you are more openminded to believe. The scriptures are enough for me. I find Jesus in there and there is no need of miracles or signs to make me believe.

No Jesus did signs and wonder and they read the Old Testament which was and is the word of God in that day. Yet they did not believe.


Remember Jesus JOhn 14:11

Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.

Jesus said HE came to do miracles
read Luke chapter 4:17-18 Jesus on this day announced what he was going to do. He had not done one mircle before that not at 29 or 20 or 18 The Bible doesn't speak of that BUT

after His Baptism and being tempted of the Devil in Luke chapter 4 he comes to the local synagogue and says :

reading from the book of Isaiah:


16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,

because He has anointed Me

to preach good news to the poor.

He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives

and recovery of sight to the blind,

to release the oppressed,

19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”


20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, 21and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

That Day Blind eye were open, death ears dead were raised, the lame walked demon cast out.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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No Jesus did signs and wonder and they read the Old Testament which was and is the word of God in that day. Yet they did not believe.


Remember Jesus JOhn 14:11

Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.

Jesus said HE came to do miracles read Luke chapter 4:17-18 Jesus on this day announced what he was going to do. He had not done one mircle before that not at 29 or 20 or 18 The Bible doesn't speak of that BUT

after His Baptism and being tempted of the Devil in Luke chapter 4 he comes to the local synagogue and says :

reading from the book of Isaiah:


16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:

18“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,

because He has anointed Me

to preach good news to the poor.

He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives

and recovery of sight to the blind,

to release the oppressed,

19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, 21and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

That Day Blind eye were open, death ears dead were raised, the lame walked demon cast out.
Haha, I'm glad you cited that passage from Isaiah because it confirms that Jesus is Michael the archangel.

Angels are messengers or heralds preaching is an official duty of a herald, which proclaims news.

Jesus is the chief herald. He's bringing the message himself and informed John the Baptist who was in prison that the poor were having the Gospel preached to them.

Preach = to proclaim. The evidence just keeps mounting.

But, on your other point, unfortunately for Israel, God has sent them delusion, blindness and deafness. (Isaiah 6:9-12.) Miracles were not intended for them to believe.

When the scriptures were finally finished and finalized, I believe these wondrous miracles stopped. I get that others believe or perceive super natural miracles continue to this day, but I'm not one of them.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
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Well, you make me feel almost "agnostic." Jesus was vexed to be asked to show signs and miracles and I always believed the reason for that was because ignorant people who didn't care enough to read his words or scriptures would tempt him for miracles and wonders. He called them an evil generation.

Think about it: If he came up to me at a water fountain today and declared himself to me, I wouldn't dare ask him for a miracle or a sign.

Of course, he won't come up to me like that, he will come from the sky and all eyes will see him.

Will I argue with you about miracles and signs? No. I don't tend to believe them whereas you are more openminded to believe. The scriptures are enough for me. I find Jesus in there and there is no need of miracles or signs to make me believe.
If that is what you are feeling.....it is not from me my dear friend. The "enemy" will always tempt you with unbelief.

At the time Jesus lived and walked the earth....there were NO Scriptures to read about Him or His miracles.
Those things that He did were written by His Apostles many years AFTER they took place so your point is not really valid my friend.

When reading the Scriptures.....what Jesus did was exactly opposite of what we see today. To Jesus.....the thing most important was His message.

Notice the actual record of events as seen in Mark 1:41-42 after He healed a man with leprocy......
"Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: ’see that you don’t tell this to anyone...'".

To our way of thinking, it would seem that Jesus would want everyone to know about the miracle. But Jesus knew that publicity over such miracles might hinder His mission and divert public attention from His message. Mark records that this is exactly what happened. In this man’s excitement over his being miraculously healed, he disobeyed. As a result, Christ had to move His ministry away from the city and into the desert regions.

Mark 1:45......
“As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to Him from everywhere.”

Jesus did not want people focusing on the miracles He performed, but rather the message He proclaimed and the death He was going to die. The same is true today. God would rather that we be focused on the healing miracle of salvation through Jesus Christ instead of focusing on other healings and/or miracles.

Be it known to YOU.....YOU or no one else will have the Lord Jesus come to you by a well r a car or a beach or anywhere else.

When we READ the Bible in Acts 1:11 we clearly see the answer to your post as we read..........
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

HOW THEN WILL THAT BE SOME MAY ASK???????????

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 .........
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."

 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
885
183
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Haha, I'm glad you cited that passage from Isaiah because it confirms that Jesus is Michael the archangel.

Angels are messengers or heralds preaching is an official duty of a herald, which proclaims news.

Jesus is the chief herald. He's bringing the message himself and informed John the Baptist who was in prison that the poor were having the Gospel preached to them.

Preach = to proclaim. The evidence just keeps mounting.

But, on your other point, unfortunately for Israel, God has sent them delusion, blindness and deafness. (Isaiah 6:9-12.) Miracles were not intended for them to believe.

When the scriptures were finally finished and finalized, I believe these wondrous miracles stopped. I get that others believe or perceive super natural miracles continue to this day, but I'm not one of them.
I do not know who you are responding as you did not use the "REPLY" option.

Jesus IS NOT MICHAEL the Archangel!!!

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God who is in fact the God-MAN. Jesus is the Creator of all things INCLUDING every single angel.

The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael or any other angel, for that matter.

Jesus is the arch angel is a Jehovah Witness false teaching because they deny the Bible truth that Jesus is God in the flesh.

7th Day Adventists also teach the very same thing. Both are CULTS that deny the WORD of God!

Hebrews 1:5-8 draws a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels:
“For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’?

Another clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

Jesus is the Christ, the ONE who created Michael!
 
Apr 26, 2021
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I do not know who you are responding as you did not use the "REPLY" option.

Jesus IS NOT MICHAEL the Archangel!!!

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God who is in fact the God-MAN. Jesus is the Creator of all things INCLUDING every single angel.

The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael or any other angel, for that matter.

Jesus is the arch angel is a Jehovah Witness false teaching because they deny the Bible truth that Jesus is God in the flesh.

7th Day Adventists also teach the very same thing. Both are CULTS that deny the WORD of God!

Hebrews 1:5-8 draws a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels:
“For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’?

Another clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

Jesus is the Christ, the ONE who created Michael!
I have the proof in the Scriptures, and he is also the Angel of the Lord. But it's an overbeaten dead horse in this thread. So, I won't go through it with you. But, you are correct, Jesus is not a created angel, he is God. This is a matter that is going to take people some time to understand. To me, it's slam dunk because the Bible says it. But to others, they seem to be hung up on angels ONLY being created beings and not really understanding messenging.

One thing to keep in mind, Jesus created all things and how did he do it? God just spoke the words ...
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
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I have the proof in the Scriptures, and he is also the Angel of the Lord. But it's an overbeaten dead horse in this thread. So, I won't go through it with you. But, you are correct, Jesus is not a created angel, he is God. This is a matter that is going to take people some time to understand. To me, it's slam dunk because the Bible says it. But to others, they seem to be hung up on angels ONLY being created beings and not really understanding messenging.

One thing to keep in mind, Jesus created all things and how did he do it? God just spoke the words ...
Jesus is the Word.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Proof that the Lord Jesus is the chief messenger.

I was wondering though, do you know who the man Jacob was wrestling with all night was? Because I'm wondering about that.
The Angel of the lord :)
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
549
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Proof that the Lord Jesus is the chief messenger.

I was wondering though, do you know who the man Jacob was wrestling with all night was? Because I'm wondering about that.
Jehovah. Scripture says a Man with capital M. Thats my take on it.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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Jehovah. Scripture says a Man with capital M. Thats my take on it.
Oh, I see.

Hosea 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

He wrestled with God is my understanding too. But, in this case, it was with the archangel, the chief messenger who is Jesus who is God.
 

DeanM

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May 4, 2021
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Oh, I see.

Hosea 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

He wrestled with God is my understanding too. But, in this case, it was with the archangel, the chief messenger who is Jesus who is God.
It says a Man. If it was an angel it would say angle. The Man could be Christ I suppose.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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It says a Man. If it was an angel it would say angle. The Man could be Christ I suppose.
You're trying to make some kind of distinction. But, he wrestled with the angel, he wrestled with a man, he wrestled with God. All are one and the same. I cut and paste from the KJV, I didn't make up the verse.

I'm just pointing out to you what the "proof" is.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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The Angel of the lord :)
Hosea 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

Angel of the Lord is Jesus, the chief messenger, a/k/a Michael, the archangel. I keep finding more proof in the scriptures.
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
Hosea 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

Angel of the Lord is Jesus, the chief messenger, a/k/a Michael, the archangel. I keep finding more proof in the scriptures.
Angel of the Lord. In Hosea is correct. How you get to where your wanting to go im not sure.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Haha, I'm glad you cited that passage from Isaiah because it confirms that Jesus is Michael the archangel.
the Bible does not identify Jesus as the archangel anywhere.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1

further:

Michael the archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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Paul said he could speak in tongues. He believed. Many believe and the signs shall follow them too.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be daft, but some things you're saying I'm just not getting.
No sir......Paul did not say we could speak in tongues.

There is NO biblical record of Paul speaking in tongues. Here is what Paul actually did say.......
1 Corinthians 14:18.......
"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all".

Now the problem with that statement that in the original Greek the word he uses there is the word "Dialectus" from which we get the word "GLOSSERIA" which means LANGUAGES!

It has been said that Paul was highly educated speaking at least FOUR (4) languages. So when he said..."I speak in tongues more tha ye all"......he literally said......."I SPEAK IN LANGUAGES MORE THAN YE ALL".
Paul did not speak in the gibberish that is seen today but he spoke in KNOWN LANGUAGES.

Just to validate that, please notice 1 Corinthians 14:19 where he says.........
" in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."