50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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Gardenias

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View attachment 228015

The event that totally blows Mid-Trib and Post-Trib out of the saddle, is when the Antichrist signs the Peace Treaty with ISRAEL.

From that Day On, the earth with man incontrol is NUMBERED TO THE DAY. We all will know what Day is exactly Mid-Trib,
and which day is the end of that TREATY, when CHRIST COMES BACK TO SET UP THE HIS MILLENNIAL KINGDOM.

Believing in either of them, you make ONE PROPHECY, absolutely a lie. ALL PROPHECIES WILL COME TRUE IN MY BIBLE.

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


Son of Man comes to snatch HIS BRIDE AWAY.
IN A TRADITIONAL JEWISH WEDDING:
The Bridegroom comes at Night to steal HIS BRIDE AWAY, stops short of the HER house,
and send a representative to call HER out of the old dwelling place. The Archangel has been CHOSEN to do that very thing.
Traditional the Bridegroom takes HIS BRIDE to HIS FATHER's HOUSE, for the Wedding,
for the time IN A PLACE HE HAS PREPARED FOR HER,
and the first Wedding Feast is held also IN THE FATHER's HOUSE,

and second Wedding Feast can be held at the old dwelling place, for those that could not attend the WEDDING.


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (ESV)
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


Therefore, the only choice is PRE-TRIB, for the prophecy in Mat. 25:13, to HAVE EVERYONE OF US, to be absolutely TRUE.

Revelation 19:9 (NJB)
9 The angel said, ‘Write this, “Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb,”
'and he added, ‘These words of God are true.'




Ok,I'm just learning
I would say we all have some erroneous ideas and interpretations,with the word I never think I have it locked down!
 

Gardenias

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Is " our" all under the blood or is there something we must do or confess to be ready? For @ such an hour as ye think NOT the son of God is coming!
Examine yourselves daily!
 

Gardenias

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We don't hear a lot of end time preaching anymore,it's mostly faith and blessing,not saying this isn't needed.
Do we act like the doomsday preppers?
We should ALWAYS have our house ( of clay) in order!
Which of these do I need to convince the lost in need of salvation?
Prayer changes the heart and mind of God,it can even put off some bad things happening for a time.

I'm sorry, I'm rambling,I guess.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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The world's population clock stands right this minute at nearly
7.9 billion ppl!
If a pre trib catching away happens it will be such a small event that will be explained away by earthly powers that be.
I'm leaning to mid trib bc he only promised to keep us from GOD'S WRATH...( I could be wrong) not AC'S persecution of the saints.
When the event happens,only lukewarm or ppl raised to know but didn't follow will witness to those left.
I used to believe pre but not anymore.
We must suffer as Jesus suffered.....
There's more evidence for a mid-trib rapture than there is for a pre-trib rapture so kudos for effort, but the rapture is when Jesus returns after the great tribulation. There's no other acceptable placement of the rapture outside of when the scriptures actually say.

According to Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 the rapture is post trib. Fact.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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We don't hear a lot of end time preaching anymore,it's mostly faith and blessing,not saying this isn't needed.
Do we act like the doomsday preppers?
We should ALWAYS have our house ( of clay) in order!
Which of these do I need to convince the lost in need of salvation?
Prayer changes the heart and mind of God,it can even put off some bad things happening for a time.

I'm sorry, I'm rambling,I guess.
No end times preaching in deception, because Satan desires to hide the future Antichrist, and his revealing

He will be a human man of Jewish/Hebrew decent, that will reveal himself as God returned to the Jews as Messiah in Jerusalem
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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The world's population clock stands right this minute at nearly
7.9 billion ppl!
If a pre trib catching away happens it will be such a small event that will be explained away by earthly powers that be.
I'm leaning to mid trib bc he only promised to keep us from GOD'S WRATH...( I could be wrong) not AC'S persecution of the saints.
When the event happens,only lukewarm or ppl raised to know but didn't follow will witness to those left.
I used to believe pre but not anymore.
We must suffer as Jesus suffered.....
Gods words below clearly teach that the church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and his second coming, as they will look and and see their redemption return

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 

Truth7t7

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Hi!
So as it is there will not be a deception by the AC for 31/2 yrs of peace and prosperity to deceive even the elect? Then God's wrath begins @ the half mark with his wrath against the ungodly and AC. The deception will be when AC tries to force mark on ppl,is this wrong? Jesus gathers his bride,and the wrath of God starts? I do not understand the word rapture difference between second coming,I guess.
Gods words teach of a future 3.5 year tribulation that starts when the Antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem

The (Two Witnesses) seen in Rev 11 will stand before the Antichrist this entire 3.5 years, bringing all plagues upon the Antichrist and his Kingdom, Rev 11:3-6, 16:1-11 a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The "Sealed Church" Eph 1:13, 4:30 will be present on earth and protected against the plagues Rev 9:3-6, as they will only fall upon those men without "Gods Seal"

The mark or worship of the image wont be forced, men will wilfully do this by "Deception" in false miracles performed by the false prophet Rev 19:20

Read The KJV, Jesus Is The Lord
 

Gardenias

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Gods words teach of a future 3.5 year tribulation that starts when the Antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem

The (Two Witnesses) seen in Rev 11 will stand before the Antichrist this entire 3.5 years, bringing all plagues upon the Antichrist and his Kingdom, Rev 11:3-6, 16:1-11 a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The "Sealed Church" Eph 1:13, 4:30 will be present on earth and protected against the plagues Rev 9:3-6, as they will only fall upon those men without "Gods Seal"

The mark or worship of the image wont be forced, men will wilfully do this by "Deception" in false miracles performed by the false prophet Rev 19:20

Read The KJV, Jesus Is The Lord




Lol. That's the only bible I read have Thompson chain reference,which in back for study puts related scripture and I have a KJV 1611
 

Truth7t7

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Lol. That's the only bible I read have Thompson chain reference,which in back for study puts related scripture and I have a KJV 1611
Does the Thompson Chain teach a pre-trib rapture in 1 Thess 4:15-17 in its notes?
 

VCO

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Is " our" all under the blood or is there something we must do or confess to be ready? For @ such an hour as ye think NOT the son of God is coming!
Examine yourselves daily!

Now that is a good question.

In Scripture the "our" refers to those who are genuinely Born Again. You see I used to think I was a real Christian, only becuase of my infant Baptism, and because I took up space on a pew regular, even tho I day dreamed threw EVERY SERMON. To make a long story short, I genuine became Born Again, after a third attempt at SUICIDE the last week of 1977, just before I turned 29 two months later. I litterally GAVE CHRIST CONTROL OF MY LIFE, after I really spent hours of MOURNING over my utterly sinful lifestyle. Now that Surrender to Christ was purely out of LOVE FOR HIM.

I noticed the Change in my life, almost instantaniously, not a TOTAL CHANGE, but little hints that the Holy Spirit was in me. Joy was there, as I wonder what HE would do with my life. The Holy Spirit and Christ would put taughts in my HEART. Yes, I believe the human spirit thinks too, in my HEART. OH, with wars between my HEART, (who wants to always do what Christ wants), and the Carnal Mind were intense at first, BUT as I took in the WORD OF GOD, my spirit got stronger and stronger. The BIBLE went from the most boring book, TO THE MOST EXCITING THING THAT I COULD READ. Yes, Christainity is a GROWING, LIVING THING, and I KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IN MY HEART. We MATURE in our human spirit, as long as we are in the WORD OF GOD.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Is " our" all under the blood or is there something we must do or confess to be ready? For @ such an hour as ye think NOT the son of God is coming!
Examine yourselves daily!
There are "Many" signs before the second coming that will take place, when the two Witnesses are raised to life and ascend to heaven, the final hour of Earths temptation unfolds

1. Antichrist revealed to the world in Jerusalem, claiming to be God Messiah to the Jews
2. The two Witnesses of revelation 11 below will be revealed to the world
3. The two Witnessesare are killed by the beast, laying dead in Jerusalems street, as the world watches in joy Sending gifts to one another


There will be no Pre-Trib Rapture, a false teaching of man

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Lol. That's the only bible I read have Thompson chain reference,which in back for study puts related scripture and I have a KJV 1611

Yes, I used to have a Thompson Chain Reference, in the NIV.

The print kept getting smaller and smaller as I grew old.

Now I use the Computer more than the NASB Open Bible that I have.

On the Computer I usually have 14 versions open, so that I can cross reference. You see I know the Bible can only have one TRUE MEANING to the Verse that I am looking up. I keep that in mind as I do the cross reference. Makes it Easier to recognize the True meaning.

You do know, in the ORIGINAL 1611 Preface, the translation team admitted:

revising that which hath bene laboured by others . . .

It is certain, that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . .

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

They literally by orders of KING JAMES, took the 5 or 6 earlier versions in ENGLISH, updating language in them to where KING JAMES himself spoke, and correcting any known errors in them; which is A PARAPHRASE, not a Translation from the original languages. In problem verses, they checked them against the Septuigant and the best known Latin Translation. They did not go back to the original language earliest manuscripts.

If you want to read it for yourself, note the ORIGINAL PREFACE, is no longer published. You have to go to this site:
https://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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There's more evidence for a mid-trib rapture than there is for a pre-trib rapture so kudos for effort, but the rapture is when Jesus returns after the great tribulation. There's no other acceptable placement of the rapture outside of when the scriptures actually say.

According to Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 the rapture is post trib. Fact.

Better read my Post #2,496 . Your theory creates CONTRADITION.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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Yes, I used to have a Thompson Chain Reference, in the NIV.

The print kept getting smaller and smaller as I grew old.

Now I use the Computer more than the NASB Open Bible that I have.

On the Computer I usually have 14 versions open, so that I can cross reference. You see I know the Bible can only have one TRUE MEANING to the Verse that I am looking up. I keep that in mind as I do the cross reference. Makes it Easier to recognize the True meaning.

You do know, in the ORIGINAL 1611 Preface, the translation team admitted:

revising that which hath bene laboured by others . . .

It is certain, that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . .

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

They literally by orders of KING JAMES, took the 5 or 6 earlier versions in ENGLISH, updating language in them to where KING JAMES himself spoke, and correcting any known errors in them; which is A PARAPHRASE, not a Translation from the original languages. In problem verses, they checked them against the Septuigant and the best known Latin Translation. They did not go back to the original language earliest manuscripts.

If you want to read it for yourself, note the ORIGINAL PREFACE, is no longer published. You have to go to this site:
https://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm
Your claim the KJV is a paraphrase of the original languages is 100% false

It's a word for word translation, with Italics used to fill the gaps

And to add to the claims, King James told the translators what sources to use, and he corrected translators, "Laughable"! :ROFL:

Pinocchio's nose grew a foot on that claim

KingJamesTranslators.Org
INTRODUCTION
At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.
All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.
One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.
Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.
They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would inbe difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)​
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.
Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
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Yes, I used to have a Thompson Chain Reference, in the NIV.

The print kept getting smaller and smaller as I grew old.

Now I use the Computer more than the NASB Open Bible that I have.

On the Computer I usually have 14 versions open, so that I can cross reference. You see I know the Bible can only have one TRUE MEANING to the Verse that I am looking up. I keep that in mind as I do the cross reference. Makes it Easier to recognize the True meaning.

You do know, in the ORIGINAL 1611 Preface, the translation team admitted:

revising that which hath bene laboured by others . . .

It is certain, that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction . . .

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

They literally by orders of KING JAMES, took the 5 or 6 earlier versions in ENGLISH, updating language in them to where KING JAMES himself spoke, and correcting any known errors in them; which is A PARAPHRASE, not a Translation from the original languages. In problem verses, they checked them against the Septuigant and the best known Latin Translation. They did not go back to the original language earliest manuscripts.

If you want to read it for yourself, note the ORIGINAL PREFACE, is no longer published. You have to go to this site:
https://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm



This is published in my book!
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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No there are no teachings of man just scripture categorized in harmony to subject studied!
Thanks for the response, I use the KJV "World Translation" its has marginal cross references on verses that are spot on, not the detailed work of Thompsons I'm sure
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,117
113
U.S.A.
Thanks for the response, I use the KJV "World Translation" its has marginal cross references on verses that are spot on, not the detailed work of Thompsons I'm sure


You're welcome!

Mine is a very old Thompson about 50 yrs old ,and. I have marked it up with personal instruction or revelations to me and even though I need readers to see it....I can't bear to get another one!
 

randyk

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Jan 14, 2021
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Pacific NW USA
It isn't the number of arguments given, but the quality of those arguments--are they convincing? They are *not* convincing to me because there are zero examples of theologically clear articulations of a Pretrib Rapture in Scriptures. On the other hand, there are clear theological statements to the effect that Christ will return *only* after the revelation and demise of the Antichrist. 2 Thes 2 is about as clear as anyone could possibly get if they wanted to state an argument for an exclusively Postrib Coming! Of course, Pretribs try to obscure what Paul says by making peripheral arguments about the debatable "Restrainer."
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Hi!
So as it is there will not be a deception by the AC for 31/2 yrs of peace and prosperity to deceive even the elect?
The error is that, the elect is not the church, but the great tribulation saints. These are those great number of white robed saints introduced in Revelation 7:9-17. They will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered from the earth and during that last 3 1/2 years, which is the great tribulation, the beast will be given authority to make war and to conquer them.

Throughout chapter 1 thru 3, the word ekklesia translated as 'church' is used 19 times right up to the end of chapter 3. After that, the word is never used again, but is replaced with the word hagios translated as 'saints.' The abrupt disuse of the word is a God given clue to the reader.

In Revelation 1:10, John heard a voice that sounded like a trumpet. In Revelation 4:1 he hears that same voice like a trumpet saying "come up here and I will show you what will take place after this," i.e. after the church period. Rev.4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered. That voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with the trumpet call of God mentioned in I Thess.4:16 which is Paul's detailed account of when the living church is changed and caught up.

Then God's wrath begins @ the half mark with his wrath against the ungodly and AC.
No, God's wrath does not begin at the half way mark, but begins after the church as been gathered and at the onset of the seven years. The 3 1/2 years is when the beast is given authority to make war and conquer the saints. The first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the revealing of the antichrist.

In Revelation 11:3 it states that God will empower His two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, which is referring to the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. Then in Revelation 12:6, 14, we are told that the woman/Israel will flee out into the desert for 1260 days and also mentioned as time, times and half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. This tells us that it will be in the middle of the seven years when that war in heaven takes place where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth, which is the resulting plague of the seventh trumpet and 3rd woe.

The deception will be when AC tries to force mark on ppl, is this wrong?
First of all, the AC is not going to force the mark on anyone. Where the scripture says regarding the false prophet that he 'causes' all rich and poor, great and small, free and slave to receive a mark,' it is by making the other options obsolete which forces or causes them to receive it. He won't have to force anyone, because without the mark no one will be able to electronically buy or sell. Therefore, anyone who rejects the mark will not be able to buy food, pay bills, buy gas or anything else and that because buying and selling at that time will be done electronically, like it is now except cash, checks and everything else will no longer be valid means of payment. Under those conditions, you don't need to force anyone to receive the mark because they will be anxious to get it so that they can continue on with life as usual.

Jesus gathers his bride, and the wrath of God starts? I do not understand the word rapture difference between second coming, I guess.
To accurately interpret end-time events, It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events, which take place at different times and with different purposes. As I previously made known to you, the church must be removed from the earth prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath and which takes place at the beginning of the seven years and not in the middle.


Church gathered - |<------------------------------------------- W-R-A-T-H--OF--G-O-D------------------------------------------------>|
to meet the Lord - |<------------S-E-A-L-S------------------------T-R-U-M-P-E-T-S------------------------ B-O-W-L-S-------------->|
in the air -----------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<-----------------3 1/2 Years-------------------- MIDDLE--------------------3 1/2 Years------------------------>|
-----------------------|<--------Two witnesses Prophecy---------ABOMINATION-----------Woman cared for ------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<------------144,000 Sealed-------------------------|--------------------- Great Tribulation ------------------>|<-- The Lord Returns
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- to End the Age
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- with His Bride
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<--
Beast and False
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Prophet thrown
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|>-- into Lake of Fire