Mortifying the Deeds of the Body

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#1
“The Christian life is to be one long effort, partial, and gradual, to unfold the freedom possessed in Christ our Deliverer. (Rom 7:25a, Rom 8:2). Paul knew full well that his emancipation was not perfect. It was, probably, after this triumphant expression of confidence that he wrote, ‘Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.’ The first stage is the gift of power, the appropriation and development of that power is the work of a life; and it ought to pass through a well-marked series and cycle of growing changes. The way to develop it is by constant application to the source of all freedom, the life-giving Spirit, and by constant effort to conquer sins and temptations.

“There is no such thing in the Christian conflict as a painless development. We must mortify the deeds of the body if we are to live in the Spirit. The Christian progress has in it the nature of a crucifixion. It is to be effort, steadily directed for the sake of Christ, and in the joy of His Spirit, to destroy sin, and to win practical holiness. Homely moralities are the outcome and the test of all pretensions to spiritual communion.”

Would like the views of born again Christians in this forum on the subject of Mortification. We know that John Owen wrote a classic book on The Mortification of Sin, published 1656.

Failure to mortify sin (Col 3:5, Rom 8:13) is the main reason why Christians are unable to experience the fullness and power of the Holy Spirit. Without holiness, all talk about the Holy Spirit is vain.
 
#2
“The Christian life is to be one long effort, partial, and gradual, to unfold the freedom possessed in Christ our Deliverer. (Rom 7:25a, Rom 8:2). Paul knew full well that his emancipation was not perfect. It was, probably, after this triumphant expression of confidence that he wrote, ‘Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.’ The first stage is the gift of power, the appropriation and development of that power is the work of a life; and it ought to pass through a well-marked series and cycle of growing changes. The way to develop it is by constant application to the source of all freedom, the life-giving Spirit, and by constant effort to conquer sins and temptations.

“There is no such thing in the Christian conflict as a painless development. We must mortify the deeds of the body if we are to live in the Spirit. The Christian progress has in it the nature of a crucifixion. It is to be effort, steadily directed for the sake of Christ, and in the joy of His Spirit, to destroy sin, and to win practical holiness. Homely moralities are the outcome and the test of all pretensions to spiritual communion.”

Would like the views of born again Christians in this forum on the subject of Mortification. We know that John Owen wrote a classic book on The Mortification of Sin, published 1656.

Failure to mortify sin (Col 3:5, Rom 8:13) is the main reason why Christians are unable to experience the fullness and power of the Holy Spirit. Without holiness, all talk about the Holy Spirit is vain.
Since I mentioned holiness, I would like to continue the observations quoted earlier.

“We are, further, to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord, by ‘waiting for the Redemption,’ which is not merely passive waiting, but active expectation, as of one who stretches out a welcoming hand to an approaching friend. Nor must we forget that this accomplished deliverance is but partial whilst upon earth. ‘The body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life because of righteousness.’

“But there may be indefinite approximation to complete deliverance. The metaphors in Scripture under which Christian progress is described, whether drawn from a conflict or a race, or from a building, or from the growth of a tree, all suggest the idea of constant advance against hindrances, which yet, constant though it is, does not reach the goal here. And this is our noblest earthly condition—not to be pure, but to be tending towards it and conscious of impurity. Hence our tempers should be those of humility, strenuous effort, firm hope. We are as slaves who have escaped, but are still in the wilderness, with the enemies’ dogs baying at our feet; but we shall come to the land of freedom, on whose sacred soil sin and death can never tread.”

I think those last three sentences beginning “And this is our noblest earthly condition”....and ending with the words “sin and death can never tread”.
I beseech you, brethren, reflect on what is written by great men of God in previous centuries. May our thinking be truly deep and spiritual!
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
659
352
63
#3
Thanks for emphasizing this incredibly important aspect of our faith: holiness.

“Like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct, for it is written, “You shall be holy, because I am holy.” And if you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to each one’s work, live out the time of your temporary residence here in reverence” (1 Peter 1:15-17 from the New English Translation).
 
#4
Corrigendum.

I think those last three sentences beginning “And this is our noblest earthly condition”....and ending with the words “sin and death can never tread”...are WONDERFUL.

I beseech you, brethren, reflect on what is written by great men of God in previous centuries. May our thinking be truly deep and spiritual.

And that explains the Book of Joshua. So many battles to be fought in the Promised Land. Joshua defeated 31 kings. It is the Promised Land, the fullness of Christ, the fullness of the Spirit, the victorious Christian life, etc.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#5
“The Christian life is to be one long effort, partial, and gradual, to unfold the freedom possessed in Christ our Deliverer. (Rom 7:25a, Rom 8:2). Paul knew full well that his emancipation was not perfect. It was, probably, after this triumphant expression of confidence that he wrote, ‘Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.’ The first stage is the gift of power, the appropriation and development of that power is the work of a life; and it ought to pass through a well-marked series and cycle of growing changes. The way to develop it is by constant application to the source of all freedom, the life-giving Spirit, and by constant effort to conquer sins and temptations.

“There is no such thing in the Christian conflict as a painless development. We must mortify the deeds of the body if we are to live in the Spirit. The Christian progress has in it the nature of a crucifixion. It is to be effort, steadily directed for the sake of Christ, and in the joy of His Spirit, to destroy sin, and to win practical holiness. Homely moralities are the outcome and the test of all pretensions to spiritual communion.”

Would like the views of born again Christians in this forum on the subject of Mortification. We know that John Owen wrote a classic book on The Mortification of Sin, published 1656.

Failure to mortify sin (Col 3:5, Rom 8:13) is the main reason why Christians are unable to experience the fullness and power of the Holy Spirit. Without holiness, all talk about the Holy Spirit is vain.
really good stuff amen

I think that our efforts are quite different than many would take the term effort . Mortification of sins I equate to the circumcision of the heart by Christ

to mortify the flesh deeds we have to hear what the root of our issue is so Jesus said

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this shows us the internal spiritual nature of sin in our heart and that is our root issue sin has infiltrated our heart producing things like lust , hate, envy, greed , pride , grudge bearing ect. These issues in our understanding are why we commit sin

in order to mortify sins power over us we have to deal with the heart issue we have so into the heart of a sinner goes the word of God

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christs doctrine sounds so different because he is correcting that wicked heart that is the reason we commit the actions of sin in other words if we fight against the lust that makes it’s way into our mind and repent when we find it there , we can never then be led to commit the sins of lust .

Jesus spoke the word of spirit into mourn hearts of faith so a sinner who has struggled with adultery in thier life can mortify those things by accepting the truth Spoken to our hearts

it’s not the action by itself , it is where the action is coming from that is the problem and where the word offers a solution

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭

we need to operate within our hearts and minds before the looking with lust , gives birth to sin . This is where freedom happens when we begin to operate on the plain of faith inside our hearts and minds where the issue is rooted so secretly and hidden

lust and adultery are a good clear obvious one but the entire gospel is the same way we only can overcome sin , by fighting in the spiritual realm within us in our minds and hearts is where our war takes place

if we have victory in a clean heart before the lord our actions are truly the same as a fruit blooming on a good healthy tree planted in the lords garden

our efforts are internal , we overcome the foiled knowledge in our hearts by accepting the true knowledge of God and he heals that heart that gives sin it’s power over us we can overcome this struggle

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but we can’t do it by our flesh effort , it can be done by our faith and pressing forward into those things he has set just beyond our reach faith needs to come from the gospel it is designed to redeem us only if we accept and believe the gospel is a refiners fire for our hearts of faith and understanding and is able to cut away those issues that cause us to sin and be enslaved

it’s satans trap we’re stuck in and Jesus Gospel has the answers and escape plan

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭
 
#6
really good stuff amen

I think that our efforts are quite different than many would take the term effort . Mortification of sins I equate to the circumcision of the heart by Christ...

...if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭
Let us understand this in practical terms. We can debate the Bible in theoretical ways, but the Bible is to be lived in our practical, daily life. Some questions here:
1. Am I spending more time on the Internet, on social networking sites, FB, Twitter, Instagram, chatrooms, etc - than I am spending with God?
2. How do I spend time with God? Quiet Time (early morning devotions); Family Prayer; meditating on the Bible; prayer alone, and with others; etc.
3. Am I obeying God? It's good to read, meditate, etc - but am I obeying God's Word? Am I helping others in need (financially, etc), counselling, comforting, interceding for them?
4. Am I living a pure life (in thought, word & deed)?
5. Do I have a tendency to boast, take pride in myself & my achievements? Or am I repentant, humble, broken, and willing to confess my failures to God? Am I willing to say Sorry to those I've offended? Do I have a tendency to point out faults and flaws in others, instead of following the dictum: 'Love covers all'.
6. Have I turned my back on the world? Or is the world taking up too much of my time and my life? Am I convinced that this is a perishing world?
7. Do I look forward to Christ's coming? Am I ready for His coming? Or are there still many 'unfinished tasks & goals' in my life?
8. Do I give glory to God in all things? (Am willing to hide myself so that others more deserving can be seen, and that God may get the glory?)

We need to do some serious soul-searching in this respect. The above questions have to do with 'mortifying the deeds of the flesh'.
"Be killing sin, or sin will be killing you." John Owen, 1658 circa.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#7
mortify
[ˈmôrdəˌfī]

VERB
mortifying (present participle)
  1. cause (someone) to feel embarrassed, ashamed, or humiliated.
    "she was mortified to see her wrinkles in the mirror" ·
    [more]
    synonyms:
    embarrass · humiliate · chagrin · shame · discomfit · abash · horrify · appall · crush
  2. subdue (the body or its needs and desires) by self-denial or discipline.
    "return to heaven by mortifying the flesh"

    synonyms:
    subdue · suppress · subjugate · control · restrain · get under control · discipline · chasten · punish · deny
  3. (of flesh) be affected by gangrene or necrosis.
    "the cut in Henry's arm had mortified"
    synonyms:
    become gangrenous · fester · putrefy · gangrene · rot · decay · decompose · necrose · sphacelate

KING JAMES BIBLE DICTIONARY

Mortify
MOR'TIFY, verb transitive [Latin mors, death, and facio, to make.]
1. To destroy the organic texture and vital functions of some part of a living animal; to change to sphacelus or gangrene. Extreme inflammation speedily mortifies flesh.
2. To subdue or bring into subjection, as the bodily appetites by abstinence or rigorous severities.
We mortify ourselves with fish.
With fasting mortified, worn out with tears.
3. To subdue; to abase; to humble; to reduce; to restrain; as inordinate passions.
Mortify thy learned lust.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth. Colossians 3:5.
4. To humble; to depress; to affect with slight vexation.
How often is the ambitious man mortified with the very praises he receives, if they do not rise so high as he thinks they ought.
He is controlled by a nod, mortified by a frown, and transported with a smile.
5. To destroy active powers or essential qualities.
He mortified pearls in vinegar--
Quicksilver--mortified with turpentine.
[I believe this application is not now in use.]
MOR'TIFY, verb intransitive To lose vital heat and action and suffer the dissolution of organic texture, as flesh; to corrupt or gangrene.
1. To be subdued.
2. To practice severities and penance from religious motives.
This makes him give alms of all that he hath, watch, fast and mortify
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#8
I would think that when one "repents" (turns from a life of sin towards God) that mortification would be settled, right? Seeking continually to walk Christ-like requires one to strive to overcome the desires of the flesh and the temptations of the world. IMO, this is ONLY possible when one HAS the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit has the power to defeat the temptations of the flesh/world, and He is our victory!
 
#9
I would think that when one "repents" (turns from a life of sin towards God) that mortification would be settled, right? Seeking continually to walk Christ-like requires one to strive to overcome the desires of the flesh and the temptations of the world. IMO, this is ONLY possible when one HAS the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit has the power to defeat the temptations of the flesh/world, and He is our victory!
Repentance is different, and mortification is different.

One may have the indwelling Holy Spirit, but He may be grieved, quenched, resisted, etc. The point is there is the 'fight of faith', apart from 'resting in faith'. Yes, we rest in the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross; but in our Christian life, we have to, by faith and in the power of the Holy Spirit, to overcome. Even as Joshua in the Promised Land overcame 31 kings! He fought, didn't he?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#10
The difference between what I read in your first Post and what I am saying is:

You appear to say that it is "we" who wrestle/fight against the sins of the flesh....

I am saying that it is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that wrestles/fights against those sins....

You appear to give credit to "us." I give all the credit to the Holy Spirit.

If you DO give credit to the Holy Spirit, then ok. I just do not get that message from your first Post.

(just saying)

Also, there is some "darkness" in approaching all of this in the way you did in the first Post. Maybe that is what I picked up on more than what you meant to say. IMO, the Holy Spirit brings "light" not "darkness," He lifts us up, not knock us down. Anyway, thanks for the Comment.
 
#11
The difference between what I read in your first Post and what I am saying is:

You appear to say that it is "we" who wrestle/fight against the sins of the flesh....

I am saying that it is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that wrestles/fights against those sins....

You appear to give credit to "us." I give all the credit to the Holy Spirit.

If you DO give credit to the Holy Spirit, then ok. I just do not get that message from your first Post.

(just saying)

Also, there is some "darkness" in approaching all of this in the way you did in the first Post. Maybe that is what I picked up on more than what you meant to say. IMO, the Holy Spirit brings "light" not "darkness," He lifts us up, not knock us down. Anyway, thanks for the Comment.
I get the impression that you are not familiar with the English language.
I also get the impression, very strong impression, that you are unfamiliar with the term ‘born again’.
May God grant you true salvation!
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#12
“The Christian life is to be one long effort, partial, and gradual, to unfold the freedom possessed in Christ our Deliverer. (Rom 7:25a, Rom 8:2). Paul knew full well that his emancipation was not perfect. It was, probably, after this triumphant expression of confidence that he wrote, ‘Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect.’ The first stage is the gift of power, the appropriation and development of that power is the work of a life; and it ought to pass through a well-marked series and cycle of growing changes. The way to develop it is by constant application to the source of all freedom, the life-giving Spirit, and by constant effort to conquer sins and temptations.

“There is no such thing in the Christian conflict as a painless development. We must mortify the deeds of the body if we are to live in the Spirit. The Christian progress has in it the nature of a crucifixion. It is to be effort, steadily directed for the sake of Christ, and in the joy of His Spirit, to destroy sin, and to win practical holiness. Homely moralities are the outcome and the test of all pretensions to spiritual communion.”

Would like the views of born again Christians in this forum on the subject of Mortification. We know that John Owen wrote a classic book on The Mortification of Sin, published 1656.

Failure to mortify sin (Col 3:5, Rom 8:13) is the main reason why Christians are unable to experience the fullness and power of the Holy Spirit. Without holiness, all talk about the Holy Spirit is vain.


Hi CharishHaroon,

I'm reading Owens book at the moment. The title can cause a bit of confusion to the modern reader. But it really just means as the apostle Paul states- 'Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry (col 3:5).

His section on how we can only do this by the working of the Holy Spirit, is really helpful.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#13
Let us understand this in practical terms. We can debate the Bible in theoretical ways, but the Bible is to be lived in our practical, daily life. Some questions here:
1. Am I spending more time on the Internet, on social networking sites, FB, Twitter, Instagram, chatrooms, etc - than I am spending with God?
2. How do I spend time with God? Quiet Time (early morning devotions); Family Prayer; meditating on the Bible; prayer alone, and with others; etc.
3. Am I obeying God? It's good to read, meditate, etc - but am I obeying God's Word? Am I helping others in need (financially, etc), counselling, comforting, interceding for them?
4. Am I living a pure life (in thought, word & deed)?
5. Do I have a tendency to boast, take pride in myself & my achievements? Or am I repentant, humble, broken, and willing to confess my failures to God? Am I willing to say Sorry to those I've offended? Do I have a tendency to point out faults and flaws in others, instead of following the dictum: 'Love covers all'.
6. Have I turned my back on the world? Or is the world taking up too much of my time and my life? Am I convinced that this is a perishing world?
7. Do I look forward to Christ's coming? Am I ready for His coming? Or are there still many 'unfinished tasks & goals' in my life?
8. Do I give glory to God in all things? (Am willing to hide myself so that others more deserving can be seen, and that God may get the glory?)

We need to do some serious soul-searching in this respect. The above questions have to do with 'mortifying the deeds of the flesh'.
"Be killing sin, or sin will be killing you." John Owen, 1658 circa.
ohhh I thought we were talking about what the scripture said about mortifying the deeds of the flesh and discussing that

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13-

Believing the gospel is a better way and let Jesus judge us the New Testament is living and active to change us if we believe if you are wanting to do the work yourself you need to begin here with the judges words

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest:

for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-

and then consider things he said about eternal judgement like this

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me:

I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-36, 41-46‬ ‭

it’s a good thing to examine ourselves we should do that constantly , but we need to look into the gospel first to see what we are supposed to be

The better way is to let the word of Christ into moor minds and hearts and let him heal the issues like the lust in our heart , so we don’t obey it and sin of lust and deal
With the grudges we bear the greed we have and live by the covering ect

if you don’t lust , you don’t have to worry about committing the sins motivated by lust, if you forgive quickly you don’t have to worry about the sins that come along with unforgiveness and revenge Christ is able to simplify what you are saying and make our part simple

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

we need to make a determination about the huge difference in the righteousness of faith in the gospel and attempts at self righteousness found in the law
 
#14
“ohhh I thought we were talking about what the scripture said about mortifying the deeds of the flesh and discussing that”

There is such a thing as human responsibility. No believer does the work of mortification himself. It is done by the Spirit, thru the operation of the Cross. The Cross working in an inward way, subjectively. The question is, Are we willing to change our ways?

That simple questionnaire is not an “attempt at self-righteousness”. It is simple self-examination.

If we truly understand the Gospel (Christ and His finished work!), we will ‘forsake all and follow Him’. Lk 5:11.

The problem is we talk a lot about faith, but fail sadly in the matter of obedience. Faith is practical, Mark 2:5. It is whole-hearted, a serious business! Jer 29:13.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#15
“ohhh I thought we were talking about what the scripture said about mortifying the deeds of the flesh and discussing that”

There is such a thing as human responsibility. No believer does the work of mortification himself. It is done by the Spirit, thru the operation of the Cross. The Cross working in an inward way, subjectively. The question is, Are we willing to change our ways?

That simple questionnaire is not an “attempt at self-righteousness”. It is simple self-examination.

If we truly understand the Gospel (Christ and His finished work!), we will ‘forsake all and follow Him’. Lk 5:11.

The problem is we talk a lot about faith, but fail sadly in the matter of obedience.
yeah I don’t think you and I understand faith to be the same thing the New Testament doctrine has the power to make us right inside so it’s not a struggle to obey is the point


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to begin with faith grants repentance and obedience is the point of the New Testament it’s not God telling you “ you be perfect and then I’ll save you “ his promise was that if we believed him he would make us righteous

do you remember brother when you very first started studying the Bible and didn’t understand much yet ? But what you studied and understood you believed ?

the reason it grows from faith to faith is because when we are born we need milk , we can’t digest the solid food yet . Your faith wasn’t prepared to handle more than you were understanding then

as time passed and you set your sights more and more on what you were learning , your faith was growing into another level you were growing from faith to greater faith ....the gospel doesn’t come all at once because it would condemn us . As we grow Jesus imparts more and grows our faith and that is what produces our rest and fruit it seems as if you need to find the rest involved in Christ when You hear faith

Christ offers rest of we come to him and focus on his word consider the value of turning specifically to Christ and what he’s saying about that

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:

and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭


Can you find the easy yoke and light burden that faith in Christ offers us ?

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we grow from faith to faith as we can receive his words in the gospel he preached
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#16
We are not to forget that when we ask the Lords Spirit to enter our hearts and God entered the inner chamber of the temple, God and sin cannot live in the same place, God in our hearts cleanses us from sin. We can feel glory, and all thanksgiving for God within us, not ever wanting sin within us that our flesh brings on. Our life then becomes the life with God, not our life with sin.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#17
We are not to forget that when we ask the Lords Spirit to enter our hearts and God entered the inner chamber of the temple, God and sin cannot live in the same place, God in our hearts cleanses us from sin. We can feel glory, and all thanksgiving for God within us, not ever wanting sin within us that our flesh brings on. Our life then becomes the life with God, not our life with sin.
yes indeed that’s why Jesus is removing the things inside of us we will never act in sin if we don’t first allow it to tempt us inwardly . We will never commit sin if our heart is made right that’s what the gospel is meant to do remember all of the ot prophecy about the New Testament that Christ would bring ? How the doctrine would cause the believers to turn from sin to righteousness and give his spirit to them ? Make the. Able to walk in his ways ?

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts:

and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. ...I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth;so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭61:8-11‬ ‭

Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5, 1

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:

and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:25-27‬ ‭KJ

if we believe what Jesus taught he will circumcise the sinfulness from our hearts it’s why we receive the spirit up front as a deposit because the Holy Spirit is our shepherd who leads us out of sin through a world of temptations and into life eternal

the New Testament is made of faith it is only operative by faith Gods working in us To correct our will and actions of we persevere in faith and don’t hide our sins away but bring them into light
the gospel causes God to work in us if we believe Jesus

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s something to be said out the difference in the righteousness of faith that is from the gospel the promises nt , and self righteousness of the ot

in the ot they could t come near and hear God there sins had seperated them from him , Christ first forgives us and makes us acceptable in order that we aren’t like them . We don’t stand at the farthest point possible from God because we will die if we go near him , we’ve been forgiven so we can approach the throne of grace and start to know the lord
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#18
in the ot they could t come near and hear God there sins had seperated them from him ,
I disagree with this, for in the old testament is a shadow of Christ, all we read there are shadows of Christ. The spirit of the Lord was in the ark in the inner chamber and once a year the sacrificial system (a shadow of Christ that Christ fulfilled) took the blood God had shed for the forgiveness of sin and through that blood they were forgiven. In Matthews we are told those forgiven saints walked the streets of Jerusalem, they did not die in their sins.

We are to look to the old testament to better understand the new testament that Christ fulfilled and perfected.
 
#19
yeah I don’t think you and I understand faith to be the same thing the New Testament doctrine has the power to make us right inside so it’s not a struggle to obey is the point


“For I am not ashamed of.....

Can you find the easy yoke and light burden that faith in Christ offers us ?

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we grow from faith to faith as we can receive his words in the gospel he preached
Let me put it this way. God gives us GRACE TO OBEY.
We have faith, but we fail in obedience.
It is, frankly, the ‘obedience of faith’!

I would suggest you read this classic by a South African man of God.
The School of Obedience by Andrew Murray.

And, in closing, let me show you Acts 5:32. The Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who OBEY Him! 8B983A97-960D-41E4-BA58-0F56FF4B42B5.jpeg
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#20
Let me put it this way. God gives us GRACE TO OBEY.
We have faith, but we fail in obedience.
It is, frankly, the ‘obedience of faith’!

I would suggest you read this classic by a South African man of God.
The School of Obedience by Andrew Murray.

And, in closing, let me show you Acts 5:32. The Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who OBEY Him! View attachment 228169
I love hearing and seeing the obvious zeal for obedience in you it’s wonderful . But what can you learn from this parable pertaining to how someone is saved if anything ?

“And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:37-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what saved her ? Was it obedience afterwards which I’m sure she began to turn for her sins later but was she obeying a law or did she suddenly become sinless and obedient ? Or was it her faith in Jesus that broke her heart ?

have you ever considered king David ? God says this of David after he had lived and died

“And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭14:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Now , when David was alive in his life God chose David to be king and glorified David as he glorofoed God in battle and obedience . One day David looked with lust and began to lust after Uriah the Hittite a godly mans wife .

while Uriah was away in battle David summoned his wife to his chambers and committed adultery with her

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

then later David tries to hide his infidelity because she became pregnant and schemes awhile when it doesn’t work David then hatches a plan to kill Uriah a godly man and fellow Israelite to cover David’s own sins hat were now piling up high by the law which forbids plotting harm , scheming deciet and also killing another Israelite that is not a transgressor for the purpose of the law

David was a sinner convicted of several sins of death , but after he died God said David served him only to do that which was right in his eyes .

our covenant is born and birthed and exists in and only because of mercy

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your heart is very good in the lord you are seeking after him indeed I think honestly probably bout everyone here is doing some form of seeking thier savior but have you ever considered why Jesus spoke more about how God loves us , Godnis our father , Gods word will
Make us live if we believe , Gods word is eternal life ect ? He said this often in his gospel

if we first believe in him when we start seeking his word and hear it , it’s coming from someone who loves us and is for us , so it has impact coming from the lord in whom we believe . But if one sinner reforming themself , insists that all the others have the same current need it’s forgetful of the babes who Christ loves dearly just being born to believe him

it’s not about us it’s really about forgetting ourselves and letting the gospel fill us up

we can be weary of working like one sister but the one sitting and hearing the lords lovong and active word chose what is best

“And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭10:39-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our obedience is not a work it’s a love we receive from faith we’re meant to help other people in need as we cross their paths that’s how we obey

we have to hear Jesus first because it’s not the same as Moses law it’s entirely new and it creates faith to obey