Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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Prophecy is an annointed gift of God. It's rather strange that every self-important woman and every capitalistic male who seeks an opportunity to blow their own horn will claim the gift of prophecy.
A well known TV preacher of the 1980's, Jimmy Baker by name, often claimed the gift of prophecy. In truth he eventually admitted he never read the Bible from cover to cover until he was convicted of real estate fraud and did time in prison. Of such is the spirit of those who claim to be prophets today. Most are not of God. Many of them are women standing right next to us in church.
Remember that it was Eve, not Adam, who committed the first SIN and disobeyed God.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
A well known TV preacher of the 1980's, Jimmy Baker by name, often claimed the gift of prophecy. In truth he eventually admitted he never read the Bible from cover to cover until he was convicted of real estate fraud and did time in prison. Of such is the spirit of those who claim to be prophets today. Most are not of God. Many of them are women standing right next to us in church.
Remember that it was Eve, not Adam, who committed the first SIN and disobeyed God.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Just remember, God blamed Adam for the first sin, in the Garden. Eve wasn't even created when God gave Adam the warnings.
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ." Romans 5:12-17
Read all those Adam's and Men! Probably best not to use an obscure verse in a private epistle to make doctrine. So much better to take a long passage, where Paul explains the entire fiasco Adam created, bringing sin and death into the world!
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i think this discussion highlights a problem with the 'pastor model' itself. all the gifts and authority end up on one person at the front which undermines the using of all these gifts i think. if one looks at the role of wisdom in proverbs, wisdom doesn't preach, wisdom proclaims and issues proclamations and calls people a bit like the woman at the well.
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Are you saying the Bible lied and that Eve did NOT commit the first SIN?
Read it again, please.
According to Genesis 3:1-7, it was Eve that believed satanic lies. It was Eve that disobeyed God and it was Eve that seduced her husband into following her into SIN. This pattern has repeated itself throughout history to the modern day.
When God encounters the pair later that day HE asked Eve, not Adam, "What is this you have done" (verse 3:13).
God is not confused by political correctness - then or now.
Eve was punished first when God declared she would suffer for her SIN in her body and that she would be placed under the authority of her husband. American women have been listening to the Opposer ever since and today refuse their husband's authority in principle if not in practice.
Adam was cursed with having to scratch a living out of the world he lived in.
THE POINT to the end of the story and to interpretations of it by Paul is that REDEMPTION was to come into the world through a man - the Second Adam. It didn't come from a second woman, although misandric American women believe they fill that role these days.
THE POINT is that authority for this REDEMPTION was given to Adam (Genesis 3:16b) and his progeny - the Second Adam.
THE POINT to the entire story of Genesis 3 is that the entire race of man has yielded its authority to Satan, the father of lies thievery and murder. He to whom you yield your obedience is he to whom you give your authority. In Genesis 3, obedience/authority is given to satan by Adam & Eve.
THE POINT to Genesis 3 is that Satan has authority over all the kingdoms of earth because we gave it to him. God gave authority over the earth to humans, but Adam & Eve surrendered it to satan. God may be the King of heaven and earth, but satan has authority over this planet.
THE POINT is that BOTH Adam and Eve suffered from their SIN and THE POINT is that American culture dismisses the entire episode as a sort of myth - even as it wallows in hedonistic doctrine and a fanatic love of all things occult.
THE POINT is that God created the situation in Genesis 3. Were Adam & Eve set up to fail? Not at all, but that's what many scoffers claim. God gave Adam & Eve everything for happiness health and well being. What could they give God in return?
Everything belonged to God EXCEPT trust and obedience. To this day, the only thing they or we can give God - can create by ourselves out of thin air - is trust and obedience. This is the nature of true sacrifice and this is what God sees as an act of love on our part. We create trust and obedience out of ourselves. It is a thing God did not give us, but inspires us to give back to Him. Yes, God created the situation in Genesis 3, but it demonstrates the pattern of how God wants to loved for all the good He has given us. It also shows us the true nature of ourselves. We refuse to acknowledge God by way of trust and obedience. Instead we create false religion to salve our own guilt and deny our ultimate destiny - DEATH.
The free gift is more than immortal life.
THE POINT is that the free gift is an enabling of our nature to learn to love God by way of trust and obedience. Having received that precious gift, we are granted to eat from the Tree of Life in God's kingdom. But sacrifice is more important that all the gifts - it allows us to honor God as God deserves.
Unfortunately American culture has stained nearly every aspect of godly living - from our women to our increasingly feminine men.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Read it again, please.
According to Genesis 3:1-7, it was Eve that believed satanic lies. It was Eve that disobeyed God and it was Eve that seduced her husband into following her into SIN. This pattern has repeated itself throughout history to the modern day.
When God encounters the pair later that day HE asked Eve, not Adam, "What is this you have done" (verse 3:13).
God is not confused by political correctness - then or now.
Eve was punished first when God declared she would suffer for her SIN in her body and that she would be placed under the authority of her husband. American women have been listening to the Opposer ever since and today refuse their husband's authority in principle if not in practice.
Adam was cursed with having to scratch a living out of the world he lived in.
THE POINT to the end of the story and to interpretations of it by Paul is that REDEMPTION was to come into the world through a man - the Second Adam. It didn't come from a second woman, although misandric American women believe they fill that role these days.
THE POINT is that authority for this REDEMPTION was given to Adam (Genesis 3:16b) and his progeny - the Second Adam.
THE POINT to the entire story of Genesis 3 is that the entire race of man has yielded its authority to Satan, the father of lies thievery and murder. He to whom you yield your obedience is he to whom you give your authority. In Genesis 3, obedience/authority is given to satan by Adam & Eve.
THE POINT to Genesis 3 is that Satan has authority over all the kingdoms of earth because we gave it to him. God gave authority over the earth to humans, but Adam & Eve surrendered it to satan. God may be the King of heaven and earth, but satan has authority over this planet.
THE POINT is that BOTH Adam and Eve suffered from their SIN and THE POINT is that American culture dismisses the entire episode as a sort of myth - even as it wallows in hedonistic doctrine and a fanatic love of all things occult.
THE POINT is that God created the situation in Genesis 3. Were Adam & Eve set up to fail? Not at all, but that's what many scoffers claim. God gave Adam & Eve everything for happiness health and well being. What could they give God in return?
Everything belonged to God EXCEPT trust and obedience. To this day, the only thing they or we can give God - can create by ourselves out of thin air - is trust and obedience. This is the nature of true sacrifice and this is what God sees as an act of love on our part. We create trust and obedience out of ourselves. It is a thing God did not give us, but inspires us to give back to Him. Yes, God created the situation in Genesis 3, but it demonstrates the pattern of how God wants to loved for all the good He has given us. It also shows us the true nature of ourselves. We refuse to acknowledge God by way of trust and obedience. Instead we create false religion to salve our own guilt and deny our ultimate destiny - DEATH.
The free gift is more than immortal life.
THE POINT is that the free gift is an enabling of our nature to learn to love God by way of trust and obedience. Having received that precious gift, we are granted to eat from the Tree of Life in God's kingdom. But sacrifice is more important that all the gifts - it allows us to honor God as God deserves.
Unfortunately American culture has stained nearly every aspect of godly living - from our women to our increasingly feminine men.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I didn't read anywhere in Angela's post where she stated that the Bible lied or that Eve was without sin. No sure how you came up with that.
Angela referenced and listed Rom 5:12.
Rom 5:12 tells us that sin and death entered the world through Adam - not Eve.
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Rom 5:12
Angela referenced and listed Rom 5:12.
Rom 5:12 tells us that sin and death entered the world through Adam - not Eve.
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Rom 5:12
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It would have been nice if you'd READ MY POST before you vomited your words against it.
AGAIN, just in case you did read it and didn't GET IT......
Eve sinned FIRST. Show me chapter and verse where it says she didn't.
AUTHORITY and GUILT among the fallen were assigned by God after Eve and Adam fell into SIN.
Read Genesis chapter 3, please.
Although Eve sinned first, God gave authority OVER HER to Adam. Adam was thus guilty, by way of his authority, for her sin as well as his own. In order to fulfill the plan of redemption for both male and female, God designed His plan so that a Second Adam could receive authority over mankind thus allowing forgiveness from SIN and justification before God (in Christ).
This authority issue is a heavy matter and not taught in Middle School level Bible classes offered to the few adults who waste their time attending them. Again, satan has authority over the earth because humanity grants authority to it. God is King and Lord, but satan is in authority. The plan of redemption requires men and women to give authority over their hearts and lives BACK to God via the second Adam, who has been given authority by God to receive it.
I'm glad you attended a sermon that used Romans 5:12 once or twice. It has become something of a religious slogan, the power of which is not understood by most simply because most do not understand the mechanism of authority or salvation either for that matter. If I've lost you at this point, try this on for size....
No one can be saved apart from the LAW.
I'm sure you'll choke on it because its beyond the frame of reference of those who only study Paul and only read the NT and hate Jewish LAW, tradition, and dare I say it - anything that smells of Jewish tradition. I'm submitting it anyway for the sake of the thread's discussion and direction. For inasmuch as women are not allowed by Paul to speak or teach in church, neither are they part of the redemptive process which required a man to die. Modern femi-Nazis probably won't like that assertion either, but its the LAW.
I fear I've gone way too far off your narrow trail of understanding, but the temptation to do so was too much for me to resist.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
AGAIN, just in case you did read it and didn't GET IT......
Eve sinned FIRST. Show me chapter and verse where it says she didn't.
AUTHORITY and GUILT among the fallen were assigned by God after Eve and Adam fell into SIN.
Read Genesis chapter 3, please.
Although Eve sinned first, God gave authority OVER HER to Adam. Adam was thus guilty, by way of his authority, for her sin as well as his own. In order to fulfill the plan of redemption for both male and female, God designed His plan so that a Second Adam could receive authority over mankind thus allowing forgiveness from SIN and justification before God (in Christ).
This authority issue is a heavy matter and not taught in Middle School level Bible classes offered to the few adults who waste their time attending them. Again, satan has authority over the earth because humanity grants authority to it. God is King and Lord, but satan is in authority. The plan of redemption requires men and women to give authority over their hearts and lives BACK to God via the second Adam, who has been given authority by God to receive it.
I'm glad you attended a sermon that used Romans 5:12 once or twice. It has become something of a religious slogan, the power of which is not understood by most simply because most do not understand the mechanism of authority or salvation either for that matter. If I've lost you at this point, try this on for size....
No one can be saved apart from the LAW.
I'm sure you'll choke on it because its beyond the frame of reference of those who only study Paul and only read the NT and hate Jewish LAW, tradition, and dare I say it - anything that smells of Jewish tradition. I'm submitting it anyway for the sake of the thread's discussion and direction. For inasmuch as women are not allowed by Paul to speak or teach in church, neither are they part of the redemptive process which required a man to die. Modern femi-Nazis probably won't like that assertion either, but its the LAW.
I fear I've gone way too far off your narrow trail of understanding, but the temptation to do so was too much for me to resist.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Women always like "to do their thing". It seems a man cannot even quote the Bible to slow them down. Of such is the modern age that denigrates the Bible and dilutes its message. Disobedience began with Eve, btw. Modern American women will not admit to that aspect of scriptural admonition. They know better than God, apparently.
I've been around a LOT longer than you have and have witnessed females "doing their thing" in and out of church. That includes the Biblical standard of "fallen" women, who also know better than God. In this there is no difference between church types, secular types and street types.
Some women charge for their services standing up (from the pulpit), while others charge for their horizontal entertainment services (on their backs). Which one does the Bible say is ok?
Neither.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I've been around a LOT longer than you have and have witnessed females "doing their thing" in and out of church. That includes the Biblical standard of "fallen" women, who also know better than God. In this there is no difference between church types, secular types and street types.
Some women charge for their services standing up (from the pulpit), while others charge for their horizontal entertainment services (on their backs). Which one does the Bible say is ok?
Neither.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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I read your post. I also read @Angela53510 post. Perhaps, you should have read @Angela53510 post before (and to quote you) vomited your words against her post. I will not engage any further. There is no point.
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I think who sinned first and who sinned second is a pointless argument. God had already determined that he made woman for man. That is a sign that he made man for himself. (1 Corinthians 11:8-9) Hence, Jesus is the head of the man, the man is the head of the woman. This is an absolute sign. It's etched in stone. (figuratively)
Down to biology. Women are men the same as female dogs are dogs and female birds are birds and female fish are fish. God made the fowls of the air, he made them male and female, they are all birds. God made man, he made them male and female they are all men. If Eve were the only one that sinned, the concept would be no different, man sinned.
The important spiritual distinction of why Eve, the woman, sinned first is to establish that Adam was not deceived. Because Adam is the earthly representation of the Lord Jesus, the moral lesson is that man (Eve) was deceived and sinned and Jesus, (Adam) was not. (1 Timothy 2:14) It was man (Eve) that sinned and is held in transgression, not the Lord Jesus. Now because Adam physically literally is not the Lord Jesus, he sinned too and both he and his wife left the presence of God.
Down to biology. Women are men the same as female dogs are dogs and female birds are birds and female fish are fish. God made the fowls of the air, he made them male and female, they are all birds. God made man, he made them male and female they are all men. If Eve were the only one that sinned, the concept would be no different, man sinned.
The important spiritual distinction of why Eve, the woman, sinned first is to establish that Adam was not deceived. Because Adam is the earthly representation of the Lord Jesus, the moral lesson is that man (Eve) was deceived and sinned and Jesus, (Adam) was not. (1 Timothy 2:14) It was man (Eve) that sinned and is held in transgression, not the Lord Jesus. Now because Adam physically literally is not the Lord Jesus, he sinned too and both he and his wife left the presence of God.
Wow! A legalistic. Have you ever read Galatians? Time to read it. It is a book addressed to people who are being pushed by Judaizers to return to the law. Here is what you said in the post above:
"No one can be saved apart from the LAW"
Here is what the Bible says!
"Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Gal 3:3-6
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit" Gal 3:10-14
"We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." Gal 2:15-16
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:19-20
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9
So it is obvious you are a heretic, and you have come into this forum slandering and insulting people. Worse, you have come here to proselytize for a false gospel. Paul was chosen by God to take the real gospel to the Gentiles. You have utterly no grounds to eliminate the writings of Paul. You have no Scripture to eliminate Paul and his writings, which are well established as canon, not just because some church chose them, but because the words were chosen by God to give to Paul!
In conclusion, you have totally failed to present any sources or Scripture that support your deviant doctrines. Further, from your cruel sneering words, I see no fruit of the Spirit, like:
" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
As for me, I'm not one of those people with a bit of Bible College. I am working on a PhD in theology, and I have an MDiv. I read Koine Greek and Biblical Hebrew well! From reading a few of your posts, it seems as though you have no biblical education. Anyone who comes into this forum being a Judaizer, needs to be confronted, as Paul did with the Judaizers in Galatia. Galatians is the only epistle in which the people being written to are not commended. Paul dives right into his arguments about how they are following, "another gospel."
"6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" Gal 1:6-9
"No one can be saved apart from the LAW"
Here is what the Bible says!
"Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Gal 3:3-6
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit" Gal 3:10-14
"We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." Gal 2:15-16
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:19-20
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:28
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9
So it is obvious you are a heretic, and you have come into this forum slandering and insulting people. Worse, you have come here to proselytize for a false gospel. Paul was chosen by God to take the real gospel to the Gentiles. You have utterly no grounds to eliminate the writings of Paul. You have no Scripture to eliminate Paul and his writings, which are well established as canon, not just because some church chose them, but because the words were chosen by God to give to Paul!
In conclusion, you have totally failed to present any sources or Scripture that support your deviant doctrines. Further, from your cruel sneering words, I see no fruit of the Spirit, like:
" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
As for me, I'm not one of those people with a bit of Bible College. I am working on a PhD in theology, and I have an MDiv. I read Koine Greek and Biblical Hebrew well! From reading a few of your posts, it seems as though you have no biblical education. Anyone who comes into this forum being a Judaizer, needs to be confronted, as Paul did with the Judaizers in Galatia. Galatians is the only epistle in which the people being written to are not commended. Paul dives right into his arguments about how they are following, "another gospel."
"6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" Gal 1:6-9
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I think something for you to keep in mind is that while woman is the earthly representation of man and man is the earthly representation of Jesus, that when God address "women" in particular in the Bible, he may indeed in fact be referring to men or in particular the priests.
I'll give you an example of such an occasion where carefully reading what he says tends to be directed to the priesthood in general and that he will take the priesthood service away from them.
Isaiah 3:15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.
Verse 15 leading into 16 leads one to believe God is railing against the priesthood for not teaching the people properly.
The second clue is the "tinkling with their feet." A description of one walking making a tinkling with their feet are the priests in their robes with the bells and pomegranate about the hem of their robes. (Exodus 28:34, Exodus 39:26.)
This spiritual construct of men and women is something to consider carefully, especially when you are casting stones at others for their shortcomings and sins.
I'll give you an example of such an occasion where carefully reading what he says tends to be directed to the priesthood in general and that he will take the priesthood service away from them.
Isaiah 3:15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.
Verse 15 leading into 16 leads one to believe God is railing against the priesthood for not teaching the people properly.
The second clue is the "tinkling with their feet." A description of one walking making a tinkling with their feet are the priests in their robes with the bells and pomegranate about the hem of their robes. (Exodus 28:34, Exodus 39:26.)
This spiritual construct of men and women is something to consider carefully, especially when you are casting stones at others for their shortcomings and sins.