JESUS DID NOT HAVE LONG HAIR

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#61
The temptation to visualize Christ, or the Father, or the Holy Spirit, or even angels, is nothing but a device of Satan to draw people away from God’s pure Word.
then why did God design a temple with images of cherubim all over it?
did Satan deceive even God, too?


even the vision of Ezekiel:

And the galleries all around their three stories opposite the threshold were paneled with wood from the ground to the windows—the windows were covered — from the space above the door, even to the inner room, as well as outside, and on every wall all around, inside and outside, by measure.
And it was made with cherubim and palm trees, a palm tree between cherub and cherub. Each cherub had two faces, so that the face of a man was toward a palm tree on one side, and the face of a young lion toward a palm tree on the other side; thus it was made throughout the temple all around. From the floor to the space above the door, and on the wall of the sanctuary, cherubim and palm trees were carved.
The doorposts of the temple were square, as was the front of the sanctuary; their appearance was similar. The altar was of wood, three cubits high, and its length two cubits. Its corners, its length, and its sides were of wood; and he said to me, “This is the table that is before the Lord.”
The temple and the sanctuary had two doors. The doors had two panels apiece, two folding panels: two panels for one door and two panels for the other door. Cherubim and palm trees were carved on the doors of the temple just as they were carved on the walls. A wooden canopy was on the front of the vestibule outside. There were beveled window frames and palm trees on one side and on the other, on the sides of the vestibule — also on the side chambers of the temple and on the canopies.
(Ezekiel 41:16-26)
for bonus points why is it that the plan revealed to David by the Spirit and built by Solomon for the 1st temple, was covered in cherubim, palm trees & open flowers -- but in Ezekiel's vision there are not open flowers? :unsure:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#62
The temptation to visualize Christ, or the Father, or the Holy Spirit, or even angels, is nothing but a device of Satan to draw people away from God’s pure Word.
you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine woven linen and blue, purple, and scarlet thread;
with artistic designs of cherubim you shall weave them.
(Exodus 26:1)
why did God command that the tabernacle be decorated with images of cherubim?
 
#63
you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine woven linen and blue, purple, and scarlet thread;
with artistic designs of cherubim you shall weave them.
(Exodus 26:1)
why did God command that the tabernacle be decorated with images of cherubim?
The OT is a shadow. Everything about the tabernacle had a spiritual significance! Christ in the NT is the substance! He is known SPIRITUALLY. Not in the flesh!

We worship God in the Spirit! Not through images and idols!
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
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#64
the temple and body is also a vessel for the light.

Images and statues are also symbolic to encourage worship spiritutaly


The last supper where Jesus told us to eat bread in rememberance of his life is a symbolic
act that leads to praying spiritualy to the father.
Do you close your eyes when you pray or look at a picture when you pray ? I would say most people close there eyes. but it was looking at the picture that led them to pray.
 

Funkus

Active member
May 20, 2020
198
70
28
#65
All images? Not sure what scripture you’re getting that from, but I’m pretty sure the scripture you quoted was don’t make anything that you cannot see because you cannot recreate it with your limited human intellect and it can become an idol. I don’t see how creating images of trees, etc. is poison. Not to mention it said anything above or beneath the earth, not ON earth.
i think this sounds like you really get it which means you probably won't be listened to it makes too much sense, after all when Jesus was shown the coin to pay tax with the image on it of the emperor he said give to Caesar what belongs to him and to God what belongs to God. He negated the power of the image and by doing so said the emperor wasn't God as these Caesars claimed they were. Image worship wasn't the problem, the emperor demanding worship was and a little later Nero built a 100 foot bronze statue of himself as a god. Jesus is portrayed as a humble man in comparison.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#66
The OT is a shadow. Everything about the tabernacle had a spiritual significance! Christ in the NT is the substance! He is known SPIRITUALLY. Not in the flesh!

We worship God in the Spirit! Not through images and idols!
OK,
so what's the NT complement of the OT tabernacle and temple being decorated with images of cherubim, palm trees & open flowers?
what's the substance of this shadow?
are we supposed to get tattoos of these things on our bodies, since they are temples?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#67
OK,
so what's the NT complement of the OT tabernacle and temple being decorated with images of cherubim, palm trees & open flowers?
what's the substance of this shadow?
are we supposed to get tattoos of these things on our bodies?
just as an aside, totally off-topic...

this would be my #2 choice for a tattoo if i were ever to have one ((i do not have one))
cherubim, palm trees and open flowers. or maybe just cherubim & palm trees ((see difference between Ezekiel temple adornment and Solomon temple))

number 1 choice for tattoo ((again, i have zero tattoos)) is "
השייכים ליהווה" on my hand, per Isaiah 44:5 ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#68
The OT is a shadow. Everything about the tabernacle had a spiritual significance! Christ in the NT is the substance! He is known SPIRITUALLY. Not in the flesh!

We worship God in the Spirit! Not through images and idols!
at any rate the fact of the decoration of the tabernacle & temple(s) destroys all arguments for total iconoclasm, IMO.
citing that the OT are shadows does not brush away the argument - it's in fact the OT you yourself look to to make your own argument, that men should not make graven images.

so what would you say if i replied to you, 'the OT is a shadow' ?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
6,547
113
#69
Bag 'o Bones, will you PLEASE quit trying to bring some common sense into this Thread!

(goodness)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#70
for bonus points why is it that the plan revealed to David by the Spirit and built by Solomon for the 1st temple, was covered in cherubim, palm trees & open flowers -- but in Ezekiel's vision there are not open flowers? :unsure:
and the tabernacle doesn't have palm trees, just cherubim?? :unsure:

i feel like this deserves it's own thread, a thread that will have maybe 2 replies saying "hmm good question" and then fall off the front page forever. :LOL:

maybe i'll ask my pastor.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#71
i feel like this deserves it's own thread, a thread that will have maybe 2 replies saying "hmm good question" and then fall off the front page forever. :LOL:
also one reply from Nehemiah saying "stop reading too much into things in the Bible"

:ROFL:
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#72
um

was Jesus bald?

I thought he had white hair, as white as wool, as it says in Revelation. It doesnt say how long it is. But he presumably had some.
 
#73
then why did God design a temple with images of cherubim all over it?]

Dear , since you have been talking about the Tabernacle in the OT and not understanding its spiritual significance, I will suggest a simple book (which even a child can understand). It's by Bakht Singh and titled God's Dwelling Place.

There are other books on the Tabernacle, but you will find them difficult to understand.

You might even get God's Dwelling Place online, the full text! Google and find out! :):):)

Gods Dwelling Place.png
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,707
13,391
113
#74
Dear , since you have been talking about the Tabernacle in the OT and not understanding its spiritual significance, I will suggest a simple book (which even a child can understand). It's by Bakht Singh and titled God's Dwelling Place.

There are other books on the Tabernacle, but you will find them difficult to understand.

You might even get God's Dwelling Place online, the full text! Google and find out!
I don't know what you were attempting to accomplish with your post, but you came across as patronizing and demeaning.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#76
I don't know what you were attempting to accomplish with your post, but you came across as patronizing and demeaning.
thank you, really -- but it's ok:
it is an honor to the student when the teacher cannot answer his questions, and is reduced to giving him books to read that cannot answer his questions either.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#77
Dear , since you have been talking about the Tabernacle in the OT and not understanding its spiritual significance, I will suggest a simple book (which even a child can understand). It's by Bakht Singh and titled God's Dwelling Place.

There are other books on the Tabernacle, but you will find them difficult to understand.

You might even get God's Dwelling Place online, the full text! Google and find out! :):):)


ok, finished. i had to go to work so i couldn't finish sooner.

have you read this book? did you notice he's preaching sinless perfectionism? and that he interprets all the things he talks about in terms of humans- doing works, particularly evangelism -- specifically spreading the message of sinless perfectionism being a test of true faith?
and did you notice that he does not mention iconoclasm at all, nor does he give any attempt to explain why there are images of earthly and heavenly things carved, woven and painted on the temple & tabernacle ((according to God's own plan)) and their furnishings?



so.. um..
i'm still stuck on how you explain yourself saying that images of things on earth or in heaven are Satanic, when God Himself covered His own tabernacle & temple with images of heavenly and earthly things...
got any answer to that?
before i spend a bunch more time reading your book for '
more advanced students' can you tell me whether it answers my objection?


:)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#78
look m8 before i shell out $25 for this and spend a week reading it just so i can get your answer to my question,

does this book tell me how you can say all images are Satanic while God puts images of cherubim, palm trees and open flowers on His own house on earth?

i don't need a 300 page book to tell me to read Exodus, if it doesn't answer my question in the first place. i'm just trying to sort out why you're taking a position that seems to be contradicted by scripture -- whether you didn't realize you were doing so ((that's my guess)), or whether you can defend your view when Exodus 26, 1 Kings 6 & Ezekiel 41 sure make it seem indefensible.

ok?
thanks
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
#79
ok, finished. i had to go to work so i couldn't finish sooner.

have you read this book? did you notice he's preaching sinless perfectionism? and that he interprets all the things he talks about in terms of humans- doing works, particularly evangelism -- specifically spreading the message of sinless perfectionism being a test of true faith?
and did you notice that he does not mention iconoclasm at all, nor does he give any attempt to explain why there are images of earthly and heavenly things carved, woven and painted on the temple & tabernacle ((according to God's own plan)) and their furnishings?



so.. um..
i'm still stuck on how you explain yourself saying that images of things on earth or in heaven are Satanic, when God Himself covered His own tabernacle & temple with images of heavenly and earthly things...
got any answer to that?
before i spend a bunch more time reading your book for '
more advanced students' can you tell me whether it answers my objection?


:)
I knew he was being influcened by sinless perfection i senced that last week.
I told him your sounding like a sinless perfectionest. And he would not have it.
i wanted to tell him worrying to much about sinning is how a sinless perfectionist can get a person.

Honestly i was trying help him thinking he may well of been influenced by a sinless perfectionist,, The holy spirit could of spoke to me also in prayer and told me.

We would be better praying for him because hes been corrupted by this book
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#80
I knew he was being influcened by sinless perfection i senced that last week.
I told him your sounding like a sinless perfectionest. And he would not have it.
i wanted to tell him worrying to much about sinning is how a sinless perfectionist can get a person.

Honestly i was trying help him thinking he may well of been influenced by a sinless perfectionist,, The holy spirit could of spoke to me also in prayer and told me.

We would be better praying for him because hes been corrupted by this book
((from the first book))

Why is it that so many people struggle very hard to obey God, but cannot? Every morning they say, ‘Now, to-day, I will not lose my temper; to-day I will not tell lies; to-day I will not take a bribe’; yet after two or three hours, again they lose their tempers. Even though they pray and read their Bibles, yet they fail. Why is that? Because they fail to appropriate the Blood for cleansing to begin with, and then to lay hold of Christ as their life. They are trying to do the things of God with their own human energy. That is why they fail. Do you want to overcome in every temptation? Then come under the Blood by faith, every day, every morning. The Blood speaks of two things—cleansing and life. When you confess your sins, you are washed by the Blood from every defilement and the life of Christ in you will be manifested in your daily walk and actions. The Israelites had to come under the Blood to be able to obey what God commanded.
it's subtle, and it's in the middle of other things, but it's there.
'why are you unable to overcome every temptation and be sinless? because you aren't under the blood. you've got to really concentrate every morning and then you will be sinless and perfect. if your flesh isn't without sin, then you're not really saved, because you're not praying the magical 'under the blood' prayer hard enough and often enough -- you don't really have faith, or you would never stumble. **real** Christians are sinless under the blood, why aren't you?'
((my paraphrase))


obviously this isn't the theme of the book and the idea isn't on every page -- but it's the perspective the author comes from.