The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,385
3,176
113
Preterism is an absurd and heretical view of Bible prophecies. But well-known Christian personalities such as R. C. Sproul, James Kennedy, Hank Hannegraaf, and Jay Adams promote the heresy of Preterism. According to someone “it is spreading like wildfire” on social media. That is why Christian should know how absurd and heretical this view of prophecy really is, and reject it out of hand.

The heresy is primarily in the rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the real, visible, tangible, physical Second Coming of Christ with all His saints and angels, to the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19 and many other passages), and events to follow.

According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.” [Got Questions]

So what does Preterism teach falsely? Here are their 14 absurdities:
1. There are no future events to be seen the book of Revelation.
2. All end-times prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70 (when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem).
[Note: as a result they try to change the date of the writing of Revelation to before AD 70, when it is generally accepted as AD 95.]
3. There is no future 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist, and no temple in Jerusalem which he will desecrate with the Abomination of Desolation.
4. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation are already past.
*5. The Second Coming of Christ has already occurred as a “spiritual return”.
*6. The resurrection of the dead is already past.
*7. The final judgment is ongoing.*
[*Note: Partial Preterists believe that these three are still in the future.]
8. There is no future Rapture.
9. There is no future literal Millennium.
10. The eternal Kingdom of God is already being established on earth.
11. The New Heavens and the New Earth have already come into existence.
12. The term “this generation” in the Olivet Discourse applied to Christ’s generation.
13. There will be no future redemption and restoration of Israel.
14. The Church has replaced Israel.


We could go into great detail as to why all these ideas are totally foolish. But the best biblical evidence against Preterism is the FACT that none of the cataclysmic cosmic events which are revealed in the Bible have occurred. And they will occur just before the Second Coming of Christ.

When we combine Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Luke 21:25-26, and Revelation 6:12-17, this is what we get – a series of events which are TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED and unimaginably devastating:

1. AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days” or “but in those days, after that tribulation” or “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake”


2. THE SUN SHALL BE DARKENED (BLACKENED)
“shall the sun be darkened” or “the sun shall be darkened” or “there shall be signs in the sun” or “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair”


3. THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED AS BLOOD
“the moon shall not give her light” or “there shall be signs in the moon” or “the moon became as blood”


4. THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN UPON EARTH
“the stars shall fall from heaven” or “the stars of heaven shall fall” or “there shall be signs in the stars” or “the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind”


5. THE POWERS OF THE HEAVEN SHALL BE SHAKEN, AND IT SHALL DEPART AS A SCROLL
“the powers of the heavens shall be shaken” or “the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken” or “the powers of heaven shall be shaken” or “the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together”


6. EVERY MOUNTAIN AND ISLAND WILL BE MOVED OUT ITS PLACE
“upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity” or “every mountain and island were moved out of their places”


7. THE SEA AND WAVES WILL ROAR AS NEVER BEFORE
“the sea and the waves roaring”


8. MEN’S HEARTS WILL FAIL THEM BECAUSE OF FEAR
“Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth” or “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”


Had any of this happened already, we would not even be living on this earth as it exists, and the heavenly bodies would not continue to exist as we see them.
What is absurd is your attitude to Christians who happen not to agree with your doctrines. They may be wrong but then again, so might you. You were not there in AD70 to see the events of that time. It surely was catastrophic for Israel. I don't subscribe to "isms". God has hidden his truth from smug and self satisfied intellectuals. He has revealed truth to the humble and lowly, who are honest enough to say "I don't know".
Papyrus 98 (in the Gregory-Aland numbering), designated by 98, is an early copy of the New Testament in Greek. It is a papyrus manuscript of the Book of Revelation. The manuscript palaeographically had been assigned to years "100–125AD(?)".

So, what happened SOON around 100 AD to roughly 150 AD that was catastrophic?

According to Church history, NADA!
AD 100 saw the total destruction of Israel as a functioning nation. Yeah, nothing significant at all.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
I think you need to check your math. Seriously check your math....what you are postulating is complete rubbish. And then after you do that, scrap everything you know about eschatology and start over. That's probably the best way to correct your errors.
PlainWord speaks the truth...there are no gaps or breaks in the 490 years, and there isn't a single precedent in all of Scripture for placing a gap in a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy.

Jesus was crucified "after" the 69 Weeks (Daniel 9:25-26 KJV) which means "during" the 70th and in the "midst" of the week when He caused the sacrificial system to end forever (Daniel 9:26 KJV).

He also confirmed the New Covenant of grace for that week, first in Person and then by "them that heard him" (Hebrews 2:3 KJV).

He is the "Messenger of the Covenant (Malachi 3:1 KJV) given by God for a Covenant to us (Isaiah 42:6 KJV) in Whose blood He declared was the Covenant of Grace which was shed for "many" (Matthew 26:28 KJV) - the same "many" for whom Daniel says He confirmed His Covenant.

You can't transport the 70th week to the end of time when it's already been fulfilled, nailed down in history just as surely as our dear Savior was nailed to the Cross.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Preterism is an absurd and heretical view of Bible prophecies. But well-known Christian personalities such as R. C. Sproul, James Kennedy, Hank Hannegraaf, and Jay Adams promote the heresy of Preterism. According to someone “it is spreading like wildfire” on social media. That is why Christian should know how absurd and heretical this view of prophecy really is, and reject it out of hand.

The heresy is primarily in the rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church and the real, visible, tangible, physical Second Coming of Christ with all His saints and angels, to the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19 and many other passages), and events to follow.

According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.” [Got Questions]

So what does Preterism teach falsely? Here are their 14 absurdities:
1. There are no future events to be seen the book of Revelation.
2. All end-times prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70 (when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem).
[Note: as a result they try to change the date of the writing of Revelation to before AD 70, when it is generally accepted as AD 95.]
3. There is no future 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist, and no temple in Jerusalem which he will desecrate with the Abomination of Desolation.
4. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation are already past.
*5. The Second Coming of Christ has already occurred as a “spiritual return”.
*6. The resurrection of the dead is already past.
*7. The final judgment is ongoing.*
[*Note: Partial Preterists believe that these three are still in the future.]
8. There is no future Rapture.
9. There is no future literal Millennium.
10. The eternal Kingdom of God is already being established on earth.
11. The New Heavens and the New Earth have already come into existence.
12. The term “this generation” in the Olivet Discourse applied to Christ’s generation.
13. There will be no future redemption and restoration of Israel.
14. The Church has replaced Israel.


We could go into great detail as to why all these ideas are totally foolish. But the best biblical evidence against Preterism is the FACT that none of the cataclysmic cosmic events which are revealed in the Bible have occurred. And they will occur just before the Second Coming of Christ.

When we combine Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Luke 21:25-26, and Revelation 6:12-17, this is what we get – a series of events which are TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED and unimaginably devastating:

1. AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days” or “but in those days, after that tribulation” or “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake”


2. THE SUN SHALL BE DARKENED (BLACKENED)
“shall the sun be darkened” or “the sun shall be darkened” or “there shall be signs in the sun” or “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair”


3. THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED AS BLOOD
“the moon shall not give her light” or “there shall be signs in the moon” or “the moon became as blood”


4. THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN UPON EARTH
“the stars shall fall from heaven” or “the stars of heaven shall fall” or “there shall be signs in the stars” or “the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind”


5. THE POWERS OF THE HEAVEN SHALL BE SHAKEN, AND IT SHALL DEPART AS A SCROLL
“the powers of the heavens shall be shaken” or “the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken” or “the powers of heaven shall be shaken” or “the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together”


6. EVERY MOUNTAIN AND ISLAND WILL BE MOVED OUT ITS PLACE
“upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity” or “every mountain and island were moved out of their places”


7. THE SEA AND WAVES WILL ROAR AS NEVER BEFORE
“the sea and the waves roaring”


8. MEN’S HEARTS WILL FAIL THEM BECAUSE OF FEAR
“Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth” or “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”


Had any of this happened already, we would not even be living on this earth as it exists, and the heavenly bodies would not continue to exist as we see them.
Agree with 95% of what you said
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
PlainWord speaks the truth...there are no gaps or breaks in the 490 years, and there isn't a single precedent in all of Scripture for placing a gap in a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy.

Jesus was crucified "after" the 69 Weeks (Daniel 9:25-26 KJV) which means "during" the 70th and in the "midst" of the week when He caused the sacrificial system to end forever (Daniel 9:26 KJV).

He also confirmed the New Covenant of grace for that week, first in Person and then by "them that heard him" (Hebrews 2:3 KJV).

He is the "Messenger of the Covenant (Malachi 3:1 KJV) given by God for a Covenant to us (Isaiah 42:6 KJV) in Whose blood He declared was the Covenant of Grace which was shed for "many" (Matthew 26:28 KJV) - the same "many" for whom Daniel says He confirmed His Covenant.

You can't transport the 70th week to the end of time when it's already been fulfilled, nailed down in history just as surely as our dear Savior was nailed to the Cross.
I provided you with a bunch of scriptures which indicate a gap. And there are many many more.

Until you acknowledge their receipt I will not carry this topic with you any further.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
PlainWord speaks the truth...there are no gaps or breaks in the 490 years, and there isn't a single precedent in all of Scripture for placing a gap in a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy.

Jesus was crucified "after" the 69 Weeks (Daniel 9:25-26 KJV) which means "during" the 70th and in the "midst" of the week when He caused the sacrificial system to end forever (Daniel 9:26 KJV).

He also confirmed the New Covenant of grace for that week, first in Person and then by "them that heard him" (Hebrews 2:3 KJV).

He is the "Messenger of the Covenant (Malachi 3:1 KJV) given by God for a Covenant to us (Isaiah 42:6 KJV) in Whose blood He declared was the Covenant of Grace which was shed for "many" (Matthew 26:28 KJV) - the same "many" for whom Daniel says He confirmed His Covenant.

You can't transport the 70th week to the end of time when it's already been fulfilled, nailed down in history just as surely as our dear Savior was nailed to the Cross.
As I have posted earlier, what in the world is Daniel 9:27 doing there?

Scripture is chock-full of telescoping into the future in the middle of a prophecy. It's extremely common.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
I provided you with a bunch of scriptures which indicate a gap. And there are many many more.

Until you acknowledge their receipt I will not carry this topic with you any further.
OK OK, you win.

Tomorrow at work, I'm gonna return from my noon lunch hour at 2:00 and when the boss demands to know where the flip I been, I'm gonna tell him the Bible says I can insert a 1 hour "gap" between 12:59 and 1:00.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
As I have posted earlier, what in the world is Daniel 9:27 doing there?

Scripture is chock-full of telescoping into the future in the middle of a prophecy. It's extremely common.
When you learn the diff between "Event Specific Time Prophecy" and "Numerically Specific Time Prophecy" then you'll see why we can't cut off the 70th Week and sent it down to the end of time.

- the prophecy can only be 490 years long, not "490 plus 2,000+ years and counting".
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
When you learn the diff between "Event Specific Time Prophecy" and "Numerically Specific Time Prophecy" then you'll see why we can't cut off the 70th Week and sent it down to the end of time.

- the prophecy can only be 490 years long, not "490 plus 2,000+ years and counting".
Aaahhh yes. There is your mistake. Daniels prophecy was for Israel his people and Jerusalem.
The interregnum is quite obviously the Church age, and it's extremely well-documented both in prophecy and the statements of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament. Gods plan for Israel reboots after the Rapture.

So obvious even the GEICO caveman understands....
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
When you learn the diff between "Event Specific Time Prophecy" and "Numerically Specific Time Prophecy" then you'll see why we can't cut off the 70th Week and sent it down to the end of time.

- the prophecy can only be 490 years long, not "490 plus 2,000+ years and counting".
Dude - Daniel 9:27 if you please.....
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
What is absurd is your attitude to Christians who happen not to agree with your doctrines. They may be wrong but then again, so might you. You were not there in AD70 to see the events of that time. It surely was catastrophic for Israel. I don't subscribe to "isms". God has hidden his truth from smug and self satisfied intellectuals. He has revealed truth to the humble and lowly, who are honest enough to say "I don't know".

AD 100 saw the total destruction of Israel as a functioning nation. Yeah, nothing significant at all.
Hello Gideon300,

To contend for the truth of God's word, is not absurd. Preterism is one of the most destructive teachings out there. The full preterist believes that all of matthew 24, as well as all of the events of Revelation have already taken place, including the resurrection. If anything is absurd, that is. I would also mention that when Hymenaeus and Philetus were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place which Paul called godless chatter and that it would become more ungodly and that they had wandered from the truth, that this teaching would spread like gangrene. It is the same today. These people are teaching that the Lord has already returned and the resurrection has already taken place. Therefore, the same condemnation can be directed at those who are teaching such things.

Though the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple and fatalities was truly terrible, it will pale in comparison to the severity of God's coming wrath.

Remember God's warning for those who add to or take away from the prophesies in the book of Revelation, which is what the preterist is doing by assigning historical events to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Aaahhh yes. There is your mistake. Daniels prophecy was for Israel his people and Jerusalem.
Agreed.
The interregnum is quite obviously the Church age, and it's extremely well-documented both in prophecy and the statements of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament. Gods plan for Israel reboots after the Rapture. So obvious even the GEICO caveman understands....
Care to elaborate?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
Agreed.
Care to elaborate?
I already have. Go back a page or two and look at the Scriptures that I quoted. You can start with that and do your own research and study.

Still waiting for your opinion on Daniel 9:27. How does that fit into your 70 A.D. scenario?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
As I have posted earlier, what in the world is Daniel 9:27 doing there?

Scripture is chock-full of telescoping into the future in the middle of a prophecy. It's extremely common.
Dude - Daniel 9:27 if you please.....
If we suspend our doctrine for a moment and just read the text to follow its structure, we can't place ALL of Daniel 9:27 into the future.

The only portion of the prophecy that explains these last 2000 years is the portion of Daniel 9:27 that says "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

In other words, everything that has happened to the city in the last approx 2000 years AFTER its desolation in 70AD is what was determined to be poured out upon it.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Dude - Daniel 9:27 if you please.....
Yes, the events of Daniel 9:27 KJV which are beyond the expiration of the 70 Weeks (34 A.D.) and the Abomination of Desolation/Destruction of Jerusalem was complete in 70 A.D.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Phoneman-777, if you please, exegete for us a very few verses. Those being Ezekiel 20:33-44.

We understand that you don't like labels, so doing this simple task will pull back the curtain of your view of eschatology. Thank you.
God is telling Israel that he will bring them out of diaspora and excommunication and back into covenant.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
I'm finding it underwhelming
Let's not forget the Luke 19:11 parable of the Kingdom....and ALL of the simiar and parallel parables.

There is enormous volume of Scriptures indicating a gap. It's just simply overwhelming.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Yes, the events of Daniel 9:27 KJV which are beyond the expiration of the 70 Weeks (34 A.D.) and the Abomination of Desolation/Destruction of Jerusalem was complete in 70 A.D.
Here's what I'd point out (if I understand what you are saying):

"FROM ______ UNTO the Messiah the Prince" was to be a certain length of time (according to the text: "7 weeks and 62 weeks" aka 69 weeks TOTAL).

Those ^ 69 weeks TOTAL were concluded on the very day we commonly call the Triumphal Entry (aka Palm Sunday, the very day they "selected the lamb" back in OT times, per Ex12:3,5,6)... when Jesus SAID what He said in Lk19:41-44 and DID the Zech 9:9 thing (both passages referring to "Jerusalem" / "the city"--which is what the prophecy in Dan9:24 is concerning... and which passage, vv.24-27, are SEQUENTIAL).

All I see you "adding up to" is the "69 weeks"... ("FROM ____ UNTO the Messiah the Prince" [the '7 weeks and 62 weeks'])... but it is the "ONE WEEK" in v.27 that adds up to the complete total of "70 Weeks are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, and upon THY [Daniel's] holy city...".

Why are you saying that v.27 is outside of the 70 weeks prophecy (when it actually refers to the 70th Week ['for ONE week'])??
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,174
8,413
113
Yes, the events of Daniel 9:27 KJV which are beyond the expiration of the 70 Weeks (34 A.D.) and the Abomination of Desolation/Destruction of Jerusalem was complete in 70 A.D.
Wow....we have an admission. And a breakthough. Now lets keep up the momentum.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Phoneman-777, if you please, exegete for us a very few verses. Those being Ezekiel 20:33-44.

We understand that you don't like labels, so doing this simple task will pull back the curtain of your view of eschatology. Thank you.
What curtain? I've always claimed to be a Protestant Historicist in the succession of the great Reformers who were never seduced by that Jesuit Futurist garbage you wish to establish as "Biblical".

Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel were all contemporaneous prophets who had much to say in warning and promise of restoration of Israel upon their return from captivity. So what?
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Here's what I'd point out (if I understand what you are saying):

"FROM ______ UNTO the Messiah the Prince" was to be a certain length of time (according to the text: "7 weeks and 62 weeks" aka 69 weeks TOTAL).

Those ^ 69 weeks TOTAL were concluded on the very day we commonly call the Triumphal Entry (aka Palm Sunday,
Impossible. The 69 Weeks started in 457 B.C. and ended at 27 A.D., the only year when Tiberius, Pilate, and Herod reigned simultaneously and the year Jesus was "Anointed (messiah) the Prince" in the Jordan.