The second coming of Jesus
- Thread starter soberxp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Precious friend, Great Question! My own "study" on this Important Matter!:
Part 13 {of 17} Great GRACE Departure!:
The FIRST "Trump" { VOICE Of God }, Opened This Age Of GRACE ( Acts 9 : 4! )
( CHRIST's Appearing To / Blinding: Saul/Paul! )
The LAST "Trump" { VOICE Of God = "Come Up Hither!" }, CLOSES This Current Age Of GRACE! ( 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!! ) ( CHRIST's Appearing For HIS Body, The Church, To Take us HOME TO HEAVEN! } ( 1 Thessalonians 1 : 10, 4 : 13-18, 5-9;
1 Corinthians 15 : 50-57; Philippians 3 : 20-21; 2 Timothy 4 : 18; Galatians 1 : 3-4;
Titus 2 : 13 ALL Scriptures KJB! )
Be Blessed!
Part 13 {of 17} Great GRACE Departure!:
The TWO "Trumps" Of God In HIS "Age Of GRACE!"
The FIRST "Trump" { VOICE Of God }, Opened This Age Of GRACE ( Acts 9 : 4! )
( CHRIST's Appearing To / Blinding: Saul/Paul! )
The LAST "Trump" { VOICE Of God = "Come Up Hither!" }, CLOSES This Current Age Of GRACE! ( 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!! ) ( CHRIST's Appearing For HIS Body, The Church, To Take us HOME TO HEAVEN! } ( 1 Thessalonians 1 : 10, 4 : 13-18, 5-9;
1 Corinthians 15 : 50-57; Philippians 3 : 20-21; 2 Timothy 4 : 18; Galatians 1 : 3-4;
Titus 2 : 13 ALL Scriptures KJB! )
Be Blessed!
E
Your allowed to disagree
buts god is imposing judgement on earth each seal that is opened and bowl etc etc
That’s Gods wrath. He has not being doing that for the last 2000 years. He has sent his church out and being patient willing that non should perish
there will
Come a day when he is
No longer patient. And that day is
In rev 5 when he opens the first seal
buts god is imposing judgement on earth each seal that is opened and bowl etc etc
That’s Gods wrath. He has not being doing that for the last 2000 years. He has sent his church out and being patient willing that non should perish
there will
Come a day when he is
No longer patient. And that day is
In rev 5 when he opens the first seal
E
Maybe I can't nor do I have time to really look at it now
Even so it would not change my view. Again there is far to much evidence.. I habe been studying these things for a few decades. In all my studies as for pre-mil beliefs come. Post trib in my view is the lease scripturally supported view in Scripture.
I have not made a determination. I used to be pre-trib But people in here have got me to question that view. But post trib I can not see
Even so it would not change my view. Again there is far to much evidence.. I habe been studying these things for a few decades. In all my studies as for pre-mil beliefs come. Post trib in my view is the lease scripturally supported view in Scripture.
I have not made a determination. I used to be pre-trib But people in here have got me to question that view. But post trib I can not see
E
This is your belief. And this is fine. But it is just that Your belief.
When God had assyria overrun the northern kingdom. It was Gods judgment on those people. It was also done out of wrath.
When God judged the group of people that left Egypt by making them walk the wilderness for 40 years as judgment for their sin against him. He called it his wrath "I swore in my wrath they shall not enter my rest"
I have beliefs also which I really can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.. But I do not use these as my means of my belief. they may be part of what I use, but they would not be my main points
When God had assyria overrun the northern kingdom. It was Gods judgment on those people. It was also done out of wrath.
When God judged the group of people that left Egypt by making them walk the wilderness for 40 years as judgment for their sin against him. He called it his wrath "I swore in my wrath they shall not enter my rest"
I have beliefs also which I really can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.. But I do not use these as my means of my belief. they may be part of what I use, but they would not be my main points
D
I have asked questions of some on this forum that have not been answered with Scripture to prove their answer.
I believe the Scripture.
Jesus said the end times would be a time of "great tribulation like never before". He did not call it God's wrath.
Paul said that the resurrection of the Saints would be at the last trump.
John said in Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years".
The Scripture continues to state that the "tribulation Saints" will be in the "first resurrection".
How do you explain the tribulation saints and the church being in the first resurrection it these two events happens seven years apart?
My belief is this.
There is a time of great tribulation coming as Jesus said.
It will begin when the man of sin is revealed and continue 1290 days.
The man of sin will drive Israel into the wilderness where God will protect them for 1260 days.
The man of sin will then turn his wrath on the saints 1260 days. Many/most will die, but those whom God choses will survive.
At the sounding of the seventh trump, Jesus will return. The first resurrection will happen in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.
The man of sin and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire. (this is the second death).
Satan will be bound for a thousand years.
God's wrath (the seven vials) will then be poured out for 45 days, completing Daniel's 1335 days.
The thousand year reign of Jesus and the saints will begin.
This is what Scripture states.
I believe the Scripture.
Jesus said the end times would be a time of "great tribulation like never before". He did not call it God's wrath.
Paul said that the resurrection of the Saints would be at the last trump.
John said in Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years".
The Scripture continues to state that the "tribulation Saints" will be in the "first resurrection".
How do you explain the tribulation saints and the church being in the first resurrection it these two events happens seven years apart?
My belief is this.
There is a time of great tribulation coming as Jesus said.
It will begin when the man of sin is revealed and continue 1290 days.
The man of sin will drive Israel into the wilderness where God will protect them for 1260 days.
The man of sin will then turn his wrath on the saints 1260 days. Many/most will die, but those whom God choses will survive.
At the sounding of the seventh trump, Jesus will return. The first resurrection will happen in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.
The man of sin and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire. (this is the second death).
Satan will be bound for a thousand years.
God's wrath (the seven vials) will then be poured out for 45 days, completing Daniel's 1335 days.
The thousand year reign of Jesus and the saints will begin.
This is what Scripture states.
Since all of Scripture is inspired by God's Spirit, Paul calls it God's wrath. Col 3:6, 1Th 1:10, 1Th 5:9, Rev 6:17 etc.
In the OT we see the expression Day of the Lord equating with God's wrath...
Isaiah 13:6 (KJV) Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isaiah 34:8 (KJV) For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Jeremiah 46:10 (KJV) For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
Lamentations 2:22 (KJV) Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
Ezekiel 13:5 (KJV) Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 30:3 (KJV) For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel 1:15 (KJV) Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:1 (KJV) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joel 2:11 (KJV) And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joel 2:31 (KJV) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 3:14 (KJV) Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 5:18 (KJV) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 (KJV) Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Obadiah 15 (KJV) For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Zephaniah 1:14 (KJV) The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zephaniah 1:18 (KJV) Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Zephaniah 2:2 (KJV) Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.
Zephaniah 2:3 (KJV) Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Zechariah 14:1 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Malachi 4:5 (KJV) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Are you really going to redefine the above verses as 'tribulation?
That is what Scripture states.
In the OT we see the expression Day of the Lord equating with God's wrath...
Isaiah 13:6 (KJV) Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isaiah 34:8 (KJV) For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Jeremiah 46:10 (KJV) For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
Lamentations 2:22 (KJV) Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
Ezekiel 13:5 (KJV) Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 30:3 (KJV) For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel 1:15 (KJV) Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:1 (KJV) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joel 2:11 (KJV) And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joel 2:31 (KJV) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 3:14 (KJV) Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 5:18 (KJV) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 (KJV) Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Obadiah 15 (KJV) For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Zephaniah 1:14 (KJV) The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zephaniah 1:18 (KJV) Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Zephaniah 2:2 (KJV) Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.
Zephaniah 2:3 (KJV) Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Zechariah 14:1 (KJV) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Malachi 4:5 (KJV) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Are you really going to redefine the above verses as 'tribulation?
That is what Scripture states.
Here is what you said,
"Jesus said the end times would be a time of "great tribulation like never before". He did not call it God's wrath."
You also said in the previous post... "The man of sin will then turn his wrath on the saints 1260 days. Many/most will die, but those whom God choses will survive. "
My question would be, where does God's wrath (as I showed from the litany of OT scriptures) fit in to the scheme of things.
"Jesus said the end times would be a time of "great tribulation like never before". He did not call it God's wrath."
You also said in the previous post... "The man of sin will then turn his wrath on the saints 1260 days. Many/most will die, but those whom God choses will survive. "
My question would be, where does God's wrath (as I showed from the litany of OT scriptures) fit in to the scheme of things.
Hi Crossnote,
I have found with many years of contention, as I'm sure that you have, that this claim regarding the word "wrath" not being listed directly is used by the naysayers to support their positions. With them it is always about distorting or circumventing when faced with the truth, unfortunately. Sometimes I honestly wonder why I even contend about these issues or whether God is even glorified in it.
Below are some of the claims made regarding God's wrath in relation to Revelation:
* The first six are not the wrath of God, because they believe that wrath only comes after the announcement that the "great day of their wrath has come." The error is that they fail to understand that the announcement is encompassing God's wrath in its entirety, which includes the seals that will have previously taken place, as well as the 7th seal, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments. They have no spiritual reasoning.
* Only the seals and the bowl judgments are considered to be God's wrath
* Only the bowl judgments are God's wrath. Their reason for this, is because of Revelation 15:1:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."
So, because the word "wrath" is used, then for them only the bowls are God's wrath. However, what they fail to recognize is the fact that the verse states that the bowls are the 'seven last plagues of wrath,' which mean that there would have to be wrath that comes before them. As an example, If I say that I was last in line to buy my concert tickets, that would mean that there were other people ahead of me buying tickets, right? Well, it is the same here. Since the bowls are 'the last plagues of wrath' then it infers that other wrath must taken place before them, which would be the seals and the trumpets, which are also referred to as plagues.
I have found with many years of contention, as I'm sure that you have, that this claim regarding the word "wrath" not being listed directly is used by the naysayers to support their positions. With them it is always about distorting or circumventing when faced with the truth, unfortunately. Sometimes I honestly wonder why I even contend about these issues or whether God is even glorified in it.
Below are some of the claims made regarding God's wrath in relation to Revelation:
* The first six are not the wrath of God, because they believe that wrath only comes after the announcement that the "great day of their wrath has come." The error is that they fail to understand that the announcement is encompassing God's wrath in its entirety, which includes the seals that will have previously taken place, as well as the 7th seal, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments. They have no spiritual reasoning.
* Only the seals and the bowl judgments are considered to be God's wrath
* Only the bowl judgments are God's wrath. Their reason for this, is because of Revelation 15:1:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."
So, because the word "wrath" is used, then for them only the bowls are God's wrath. However, what they fail to recognize is the fact that the verse states that the bowls are the 'seven last plagues of wrath,' which mean that there would have to be wrath that comes before them. As an example, If I say that I was last in line to buy my concert tickets, that would mean that there were other people ahead of me buying tickets, right? Well, it is the same here. Since the bowls are 'the last plagues of wrath' then it infers that other wrath must taken place before them, which would be the seals and the trumpets, which are also referred to as plagues.
Please show problems with 1611 KJV...other than........a few well known errors...such as Holy Spirit correction.....(Greek.....Pneuma)... from Holy Ghost, etc.
If you think you are not under God's law....that is a typical new age religion teaching...do yourself a favor. ....we are under God's law.
WOW you startled me with that one. Hello Andy Stanley in Ohio. Yes, Charles's son.
If you think you are not under God's law....that is a typical new age religion teaching...do yourself a favor. ....we are under God's law.
WOW you startled me with that one. Hello Andy Stanley in Ohio. Yes, Charles's son.