How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

[Phoneman-777]

If you use the same website and look up Strong’s #26 or agape, you will see that agapao is the root word of agape. If you also read Thayer’s Lexicon you will find mention of Romans 13:10 and John 15:13. These are examples of agape being used as the love one has for friends or neighbors.

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.13.9-10.kjv

“This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/jhn.15.12-13.kjv

You think when Paul and John speak of "agape" in those verses, they are referring to less than "unconditional, Godly love" as that which they desire Christians to have for friends, family, or neighbors? I would say that "unconditional, Godly love" is exactly the kind they're talking about.

I mean, John qualifies it by saying "no greater love" -- is there any greater love than "unconditional, divine, Godly" love?

No where in Scripture do we see "agape" refer to anything but "unconditional, divine, Godly" love nor is it anywhere shown to be manifested by the wicked -- because the "agape of God" is demonstrated when Christians "keep the commandments of God" (1 John 5:2-3 KJV) because the wicked cannot keep the commandments (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[Jocund]

because the "agape of God" is demonstrated when Christians "keep the commandments of God" (1 John 5:2-3 KJV) because the wicked cannot keep the commandments (Romans 8:7 KJV).

Agape is also a requirement of the commandments. A chicken and egg moment.

Except for those that count as tares and Jesus Himself, we all have carnal urges and spiritual urges. Spiritually we have an urge to love with agape. Carnally we urge wickedly (such as thinking of adultery) which is a failure to be in a state of agape.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matthew 5:27-28

I'm tempted to think that most of us are not perfect in having love in our heart, therefore fall short of keeping the commandments. Though there are moments of love and though we strive to be better (as we should), we are imperfect and saved by grace rather than justified in salvation by our attempts to keep the commandments.

Suppose all of your bad thoughts and carnal mind were burned away, and all that remained were the memories and states of agape... That purified form of you would only know agape and would be perfect under the commandments. For a drunkard, those sinful parts would be removed (and the body that would remain would not be that of a drunkard). If someone spent their entire life in a carnal state, not one bit of them would be saved. If someone spent most of their life in a carnal state, very little of them would remain and they would be hardly recognizable as the person they were. If someone spent most of their life in a spiritual state, most of who they are would remain after being purified. What if this is the reward mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:14? That through our works of having love in our hearts that we may retain more of who we are.

 

[Dino246]

You are among the most stubborn of all Bible students I've ever come across Good gravy, man, do you see anything in this screenshot of Strong's G25 "agapao" that even remotely suggests "agape" is the "core" from which it is derived? Do you see anything that remotely suggests "agapao" refers to "unconditional, Godly love"?
View attachment 228283

Enough with this charade...please admit you don't have a theological leg to stand on.

You should have kept reading. The same source, BlueLetterBible, lists this following for G26, agape:

ἀγάπη
Root Word (Etymology) From ἀγαπάω (G25)

Agape is a derivative of Agapao, meaning it is not a "different word completely" at all!

Next time, drop the self-righteous rhetoric. It has no place in this discussion.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You should have kept reading. The same source, BlueLetterBible, lists this following for G26, agape:

ἀγάπη
Root Word (Etymology) From ἀγαπάω (G25)

Agape is a derivative of Agapao, meaning it is not a "different word completely" at all!

Next time, drop the self-righteous rhetoric. It has no place in this discussion.

I never denied that "agape" is derived from "agapao" - only your claim that "agape" was the "root of "agapao".

"Agapao" is a verb that doesn't denote anywhere near the degree of intensity of love as does the noun "agape", which refers to unconditional, divine, Godly love.

We can't find a single instance in Scripture where "agape" is attributed to the wicked - only to the righteous. 1 John 5:2-3 KJV plainly equates "agape" as the "love of God". As stated earlier, Paul says the wicked cannot keep the commandments (Romans 8:7 KJV) therefore do not partake of agape. Have you ever heard any scholar or preacher argue what you're arguing? Maybe you should stop and ask why that is.

 

[Dino246]

I never denied that "agape" is derived from "agapao" - only your claim that "agape" was the "root of "agapao".

That isn't what I claimed.

"Agapao" is a verb that doesn't denote anywhere near the degree of intensity of love as does the noun "agape", which refers to unconditional, divine, Godly love.

I can see that we aren't going to come to agreement on this matter.

Have you ever heard any scholar or preacher argue what you're arguing? Maybe you should stop and ask why that is.

There are many things that I have never heard a scholar or preacher argue, but that isn't evidence that those things are wrong.

 

[Phoneman-777]

That isn't what I claimed.


I can see that we aren't going to come to agreement on this matter.


There are many things that I have never heard a scholar or preacher argue, but that isn't evidence that those things are wrong.

You are insisting the wicked can possess "divine, unconditional, Godly love". I think that in this case it's safe to say that the consensus view on that is trustworthy.

 

[Dino246]

You are insisting the wicked can possess "divine, unconditional, Godly love". I think that in this case it's safe to say that the consensus view on that is trustworthy.

I'm not interested in your slanderous rhetoric.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I'm not interested in your slanderous rhetoric.

Since when is stating your position "rhetoric"?

Are you not trying to prove the "many" whose agape grows cold in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "the wicked" by "proving" wicked people can possess agape?

 

[gb9]

Since when is stating your position "rhetoric"?

Are you not trying to prove the "many" whose agape grows cold in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "the wicked" by "proving" wicked people can possess agape?

you mean like when elderly lady in the " not by works " thread announced that she had breast cancer, you offered no prayer or compassion, you just kept hammering away.

maybe you should read one chapter over in Matthew and meditate on that for a while, instead of how much you hate osas.

 

[Dino246]

Since when is stating your position "rhetoric"?

Since when is saying, "You are insisting the wicked can possess "divine, unconditional, Godly love" stating your position?

Are you not trying to prove the "many" whose agape grows cold in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "the wicked" by "proving" wicked people can possess agape?

Not necessarily, no.

 

[throughfaith]

In Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, Jesus contrasts two groups: (1) those that "shall endure to the end" and are "saved", and (2) the "many" who allow their love to grow cold because of widespread iniquity.

STOP!!!
At this time, please take a moment to acknowledge what you
and everyone else believes about these "many":
that they are the wicked who were never saved
and will end up lost.​

Except, that these "many" are indeed saints!

How do we know?

Jesus said their "love" (Greek: "AGAPE") would grow cold and only the saints can partake of "agape"!

How do we know?

John says the agape of God is demonstrated by the keeping of His commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) while Paul says the wicked absolutely cannot keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)!!!

Now, at this time, you are reconsidering what you acknowledged a few seconds ago:
that the "many" whose agape grows cold and dead are going to be lost.

When you thought the "many" were the wicked, you had no problem understanding they would be lost
in contrast to those who will endure to the end and are saved,
but now that I've proven these "many" can't possibly be the "wicked" - but are saints who will end up lost -
you're now stumbling over yourself to find a way to make them "saved"
because of your preconceived belief in OSAS.

Shame on you. You know full well that we are never to approach the Bible with preconceived notions and search for texts that prop up our doctrine, but we are to pray for the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all truth", come what may. Well, what has come is the death of OSAS. What are you going to do about it?
​

No Christians are being told to ' endure from the beginning of their salvation till their death to be saved . The verse is clearly referring to to Jacobs trouble.

 

[throughfaith]

In Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, Jesus contrasts two groups: (1) those that "shall endure to the end" and are "saved", and (2) the "many" who allow their love to grow cold because of widespread iniquity.

STOP!!!
At this time, please take a moment to acknowledge what you
and everyone else believes about these "many":
that they are the wicked who were never saved
and will end up lost.​

Except, that these "many" are indeed saints!

How do we know?

Jesus said their "love" (Greek: "AGAPE") would grow cold and only the saints can partake of "agape"!

How do we know?

John says the agape of God is demonstrated by the keeping of His commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) while Paul says the wicked absolutely cannot keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)!!!

Now, at this time, you are reconsidering what you acknowledged a few seconds ago:
that the "many" whose agape grows cold and dead are going to be lost.

When you thought the "many" were the wicked, you had no problem understanding they would be lost
in contrast to those who will endure to the end and are saved,
but now that I've proven these "many" can't possibly be the "wicked" - but are saints who will end up lost -
you're now stumbling over yourself to find a way to make them "saved"
because of your preconceived belief in OSAS.

Shame on you. You know full well that we are never to approach the Bible with preconceived notions and search for texts that prop up our doctrine, but we are to pray for the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all truth", come what may. Well, what has come is the death of OSAS. What are you going to do about it?
​

' ENDURE TO THE END TO BE SAVED '
1. No one’s life is being discussed (24:14). 2. It is the end of a period of time, not an individual’s life (24:14). 3. There are no Christians present (24:3). 4. The land being discussed is Palestine (24:16). 5. The audience addressed are Jews (24:1–3). 6. They are then observing Old Testament Law (24:15–20). 7. They are worshipping in a temple in Jerusalem (24:15, 2 Thess. 2). 8. They are not spiritual Jews, and no one but a Bible pervert would distort the context to get the meaning (Rom. 2:29). 9. The Christian already has a promise that he will endure to the end if that is what is under discussion (1 Cor. 1:7–8). 10. The Second Coming follows the “end” in this passage, and not the DEATH of the believer (Matt. 24:14, 21, 29).
The very next verse (14) defines “the end,” and yet every Church of God, Assembly of God, Nazarene, Methodist, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Liberal, Episcopalian, Lutheran, and Pentecostal preacher ,absolutely refuses to read it. f time, wherein the “gospel of the kingdom” is preached. Since this gospel is not the gospel of “the grace of God” (1 Cor. 15:1–6) given to the Christian (Gal. 1:11–12) by the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 2:16), it most certainly would have no bearing on the life of any Christian who lived in Europe, America, Asia, Africa, Australia, Siberia, or the Indies, from Pentecost to the Rapture. “He that shall endure unto the end,” is plainly a reference to a law-abiding Jew in Palestine immediately preceding the Advent of the Lord Jesus, and no amount of distortion could ever make it apply to anything else, unless the distorter had a motive in perverting the word

 

[Jocund]

Since when is stating your position "rhetoric"?

Are you not trying to prove the "many" whose agape grows cold in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "the wicked" by "proving" wicked people can possess agape?

According to the parable of the tares, there are at least some (a multitude) that are incapable of the spiritual fruit of agape. Yes. But, what you have not demonstrated is that "agape grown cold" necessarily means the absence or being devoid of agape. Your entire premise pivots on that interpretation but there is nothing to demonstrate that it is necessarily the case.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Since when is saying, "You are insisting the wicked can possess "divine, unconditional, Godly love" stating your position?


Not necessarily, no.

Good. Then you agree with me that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 can only be Saints, their agape waxes cold (which is a Biblical euphemism for "death") due to their practice of iniquity (why the flip else would their love for God die, except through starving the Spiritual nature and feeding the Carnal nature?), and their fate is in contrast to those who "endure to the end" and are "saved".

 

[Phoneman-777]

you mean like when elderly lady in the " not by works " thread announced that she had breast cancer, you offered no prayer or compassion, you just kept hammering away.

maybe you should read one chapter over in Matthew and meditate on that for a while, instead of how much you hate osas.

False doctrine is the most deadly disease of all, because breast cancer may kill the body, but not the soul...but the false OSAS License to Sin theology with which you are seduced will kill both the body AND soul in hell.

 

[Dino246]

Good. Then you agree with me that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 can only be Saints, their agape waxes cold (which is a Biblical euphemism for "death") due to their practice of iniquity (why the flip else would their love for God die, except through starving the Spiritual nature and feeding the Carnal nature?), and their fate is in contrast to those who "endure to the end" and are "saved".

No, I don't agree with you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No Christians are being told to ' endure from the beginning of their salvation till their death to be saved . The verse is clearly referring to to Jacobs trouble.

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." -- Revelation 2:10 KJV

See what I did there? I showed you that faithfulness unto death is a condition for receiving a crown of life...for the Christian.

 

[gb9]

False doctrine is the most deadly disease of all, because breast cancer may kill the body, but not the soul...but the false OSAS License to Sin theology with which you are seduced will kill both the body AND soul in hell.

how many times must i tell you- i am not o s a s.

i think one can believe in Christ and then stop believing.

but, your " behave your way into Heaven" is just as bad as o s a s.

both offer a false sense of security.

 

[Phoneman-777]

' ENDURE TO THE END TO BE SAVED '
1. No one’s life is being discussed (24:14). 2. It is the end of a period of time, not an individual’s life (24:14). 3. There are no Christians present (24:3). 4. The land being discussed is Palestine (24:16). 5. The audience addressed are Jews (24:1–3). 6. They are then observing Old Testament Law (24:15–20). 7. They are worshipping in a temple in Jerusalem (24:15, 2 Thess. 2). 8. They are not spiritual Jews, and no one but a Bible pervert would distort the context to get the meaning (Rom. 2:29). 9. The Christian already has a promise that he will endure to the end if that is what is under discussion (1 Cor. 1:7–8). 10. The Second Coming follows the “end” in this passage, and not the DEATH of the believer (Matt. 24:14, 21, 29).
The very next verse (14) defines “the end,” and yet every Church of God, Assembly of God, Nazarene, Methodist, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Liberal, Episcopalian, Lutheran, and Pentecostal preacher ,absolutely refuses to read it. f time, wherein the “gospel of the kingdom” is preached. Since this gospel is not the gospel of “the grace of God” (1 Cor. 15:1–6) given to the Christian (Gal. 1:11–12) by the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 2:16), it most certainly would have no bearing on the life of any Christian who lived in Europe, America, Asia, Africa, Australia, Siberia, or the Indies, from Pentecost to the Rapture. “He that shall endure unto the end,” is plainly a reference to a law-abiding Jew in Palestine immediately preceding the Advent of the Lord Jesus, and no amount of distortion could ever make it apply to anything else, unless the distorter had a motive in perverting the word

Whatever it takes to quiet your conscience, friend.

There are many who are waking up to the lie of OSAS by the evidence here in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV that the "many" are:

• SAINTS (by their possession of "agape")
• SAINTS who allow it to grow cold and dead because of abounding iniquity (the practice of which is what kills love for God, for it feeds the carnal man and starves the Spiritual man)
• SAINTS who are rendered incapable of enduring to the end, and alas, are lost.

No such thing as OSAS or its presumed License to Sin.

 

[Phoneman-777]

how many times must i tell you- i am not o s a s.

i think one can believe in Christ and then stop believing.

but, your " behave your way into Heaven" is just as bad as o s a s.

both offer a false sense of security.

Yes you are - you're just in denial.