50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[Absolutely]

DW's exegesis is *horrible!* He may be a fine Christian man, but his communication skills are wanting, perhaps due to the subject matter. It really takes a pretty good mind to be able to fit a theology into the Bible where it isn't warranted!

Should it be any surprise to you that DW embellishes his commentary with so many parentheses, brackets, bolds, italics, etc? He is not letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, but is trying to direct you away from the simpler meaning. He is trying to *fit* his beliefs into the passage.

What surprises me is that you say this muddy explanation is "clear as crystal." You have got to be kidding!!

As for you, you shouldn't rely on him. You should rely on your own reading skills, which are clearly capable of grasping what Paul is saying, without messing with the word meanings. Paul is saying that some got it wrong, declaring that Jesus had already come. Paul was saying Jesus cannot come unless the Antichrist is revealed 1st.

Easy peazy.

I am pretrib and him being revealed has zero to do with anything but a ptetrib rapture


I have always maintained that he will be revealed and all believers rounded up into huge open air compounds.
Then the rapture will happen.
Totally in harmony with the pretrib doctrine, as the trib is just starting.

 

[OldSage]

If it happens at night. And heaven does put it on cnn....it will be a surprise to all left behind upon awakening to cnn.

I can see them resurrecting ufo silly mess as we speak.
It is a clue.
They will say people were abducted.
Interesting twist.....will the children of the left behind go in the rapture?

It is a global event - some places will be experiencing daylight, some night

Jesus spelt that out - some people will be working in the field, some people will be in bed

 

[Absolutely]

Do you really believe this fantasy science fiction? That story is both crazy and hilarious! I watch these "Rapture" movies out of pure entertainment. Do you really believe that millions of people will be snatched out of their cars, out of their clothes, out of piloting airplanes, etc. and the world will just think it is just some big alien abduction? Maybe you've been reading too many fantasy novels or watching too many sc fi movies?

I do believe there will be a "Rapture" of sorts. After all, it did happen to Enoch and to Elijah. And it happened to Jesus too. However, instead of this being a major news article on CNN, this is going to be a war to end all wars, the battle of Armageddon. It will be a global war, replete with nukes. People will likely be dead up to a billion people. Most Christians will have to be resurrected. The few who survive will indeed to caught up and transformed. But it won't be all this pre-Kingdom drama.

you offer nothing

Just assasinate your opponent.

Go back and re read your post.
Has 100% conjecture and false framing of myself.

You are totally out of gas sir.

Your defense of your position is indirect.

You have no verses or DIRECT DEFENSE.

Again
..i maintain my position of making you go against the bible

 

[Absolutely]

It is a global event - some places will be experiencing daylight, some night

Jesus spelt that out - some people will be working in the field, some people will be in bed

Could be.
Depends on what direction he comes and how fast he sweeps the planet.

If he keeps pace with the dark side of earth he will come at night 100%

 

[OldSage]

you offer nothing

Just assasinate your opponent.

Go back and re read your post.
Has 100% conjecture and false framing of myself.

You are totally out of gas sir.

Your defense of your position is indirect.

You have no verses or DIRECT DEFENSE.

Again
..i maintain my position of making you go against the bible

I am curious about the double visitation of Jesus - I've never seen it anywhere

 

[randyk]

here is a pink elephant for you.

Rev 14 has Jesus harvesting from a cloud with a sickle .
1 Thes 4 has the dead rising first.
See that word "FIRST"?

IT Means BEFORE THE LIVING.

PSSSST....as in rev 14 harvest of the living.

Postribs need that scripture removed.

BTW... are there any postribs that actually address this?

I mean do they skip it ?
Reframe it?

Yes...both

No, I've addressed it in the last month! I view that "before" as a declaration that the dead will not be neglected when the living are transformed into new bodies. In other words, this is not an itinerary in which 1st the dead rise, and then later, at 2:00 AM, the living join in the celebration.

No, this is focused on the fact people naturally think of the living as being the 1st to enjoy a new transformed life. But Paul is correcting this. The dead will not be left out. They *1st* have to be resurrected, to join the living in their celebration. All will be transformed into immortal bodies *simultaneously!*

Remember, all of this happens within a single second of time! In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, this will happen. When an eye beholds light in the heavens, a twinkle appears on the eyeball. That is how fast it happens. As Christ begins his descent we are all suddenly there with him, descending to earth with him. The dead are 1st raised to life, which is simply the calling up of departed spirits from their place of isolation. Then we are all joined to our new immortal bodies at the same time.

Why you would want to separate the glorification of the dead from the glorification of the living I don't know, except that maybe it fits your Pretrib scenario? But my understanding has always been that the dead and living both experience the transformation together!

 

[Absolutely]

Then address the verses.

They are bible.

You can not get a pass by dodging and generalizing

 

[Mem]

Why is there an underlying assumption that the antichrist cannot begin his marking and/or beheading campaign until he is revealed?

 

[randyk]

Could be.
Depends on what direction he comes and how fast he sweeps the planet.

If he keeps pace with the dark side of earth he will come at night 100%

If he comes at a defined hour, that would be impossible.

 

[randyk]

Why is there an underlying assumption that the antichrist cannot begin his marking and/or beheading campaign until he is revealed?

Because that is the logical assumption.

 

[cv5]

DW's exegesis is *horrible!* He may be a fine Christian man, but his communication skills are wanting, perhaps due to the subject matter. It really takes a pretty good mind to be able to fit a theology into the Bible where it isn't warranted!

Should it be any surprise to you that DW embellishes his commentary with so many parentheses, brackets, bolds, italics, etc? He is not letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, but is trying to direct you away from the simpler meaning. He is trying to *fit* his beliefs into the passage.

What surprises me is that you say this muddy explanation is "clear as crystal." You have got to be kidding!!

As for you, you shouldn't rely on him. You should rely on your own reading skills, which are clearly capable of grasping what Paul is saying, without messing with the word meanings. Paul is saying that some got it wrong, declaring that Jesus had already come. Paul was saying Jesus cannot come unless the Antichrist is revealed 1st.

Easy peazy.

Lol. TDW Is a superb biblical scholar. His posts are near to sublime. I would estimate's his IQ in the 135 to 140 range.....undoubtedly a competent and intelligent man. He has incredible range and grasp of the Scriptures and knows the whole counsel of God it's amazing. What's more is the sheer hard work that he is putting into his exegesis and treatments. It's humbling to say the least....

You're not gonna like the sound of this........but he has been cleaning your clock time and time and time again. And not just you. It's not even close and it's actually quite embarrassing to watch it happening.

Since my TV Internet browser copy and paste feature and other features have now been wrecked because the software upgrade.......I really can't add much content lately. But at this point I really don't need to. Everything that needs to be said has been said.

 

[randyk]

Then address the verses.

They are bible.

You can not get a pass by dodging and generalizing

I've addressed every verse and every point. You hide behind DW's commentary. Make your own commentary.

 

[OldSage]

If he comes at a defined hour, that would be impossible.

If he comes at 3AM GMT I should be, according to precedent, sleeping

 

[randyk]

Lol. TDW Is a superb biblical scholar. His posts are near to sublime. I would estimate's his IQ in the 135 to 140 range.....undoubtedly a competent and intelligent man. He has incredible range and grasp of the Scriptures and knows the whole counsel of God it's amazing. What's more is the sheer hard work is putting into his exegesis and treatments. It's humbling to say the least....

You're not gonna like the sound of this........but he has been cleaning your clock time and time and time again. And not just you. It's not even close and it's actually quite embarrassing to watch it happening.

You sound like you have an IQ of zero. Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of pandering to DW. If he's as smart as you say, he isn't going to be fooled by your cheerleading tactics. You're just putting him up to arguing for you.

 

[Absolutely]

I am curious about the double visitation of Jesus - I've never seen it anywhere

Read rev 14

It is not the rapture or the second coming.

I see this all the time

The postrib made up " only one coming cause we said so"

Rev 19 White horse coming

Rev 14 coming

1 thes 4 coming

Acts 1 coming

Mat 24 taken/ left coming

Mat 25 bride groom coming

Read them all and see it is IMPOSSIBLE to make them into 1

NOBODY can honestly force fit it.

Nobody.

It only works in their circles with reframing and omission.

Which is Not bible at all.

 

[cv5]

You sound like you have an IQ of zero. Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of pandering to DW. If he's as smart as you say, he isn't going to be fooled by your cheerleading tactics. You're just putting him up to arguing for you.

Like I said my TV Internet browser is on the fritz so I'm taking a timeout. But TDW is doing all the heavy lifting. He certainly does not need my help that's for sure......

 

[Absolutely]

You sound like you have an IQ of zero. Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of pandering to DW. If he's as smart as you say, he isn't going to be fooled by your cheerleading tactics. You're just putting him up to arguing for you.

I think he is some kind of engineer or something
Obviously high iq.

I am low iq.

Very low.

But have a high iq God.

 

[randyk]

Read rev 14

It is not the rapture or the second coming.

I see this all the time

The postrib made up " only one coming cause we said so"

Rev 19 White horse coming

Rev 14 coming

1 thes 4 coming

Acts 1 coming

Mat 24 taken/ left coming

Mat 25 bride groom coming

Read them all and see it is IMPOSSIBLE to make them into 1

NOBODY can honestly force fit it.

Nobody.

It only works in their circles with reframing and omission.

Which is Not bible at all.

I'm sure that's why the Christian Church for 2000 years has largely seen Jesus' Coming as a single event? Splitting his Coming up into "2 Comings" is relatively recent in history. Just think: all of those blind Christians who read the Scriptures and completely missed the dual coming of Jesus! 1800 years and the Holy Spirit failed to convey to them what *you know!*

 

[Absolutely]

No, I've addressed it in the last month! I view that "before" as a declaration that the dead will not be neglected when the living are transformed into new bodies. In other words, this is not an itinerary in which 1st the dead rise, and then later, at 2:00 AM, the living join in the celebration.

No, this is focused on the fact people naturally think of the living as being the 1st to enjoy a new transformed life. But Paul is correcting this. The dead will not be left out. They *1st* have to be resurrected, to join the living in their celebration. All will be transformed into immortal bodies *simultaneously!*

Remember, all of this happens within a single second of time! In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, this will happen. When an eye beholds light in the heavens, a twinkle appears on the eyeball. That is how fast it happens. As Christ begins his descent we are all suddenly there with him, descending to earth with him. The dead are 1st raised to life, which is simply the calling up of departed spirits from their place of isolation. Then we are all joined to our new immortal bodies at the same time.

Why you would want to separate the glorification of the dead from the glorification of the living I don't know, except that maybe it fits your Pretrib scenario? But my understanding has always been that the dead and living both experience the transformation together!

I think it says changed in a moment.

Not happens in a moment

 

[OldSage]

Read rev 14

It is not the rapture or the second coming.

I see this all the time

The postrib made up " only one coming cause we said so"

Rev 19 White horse coming

Rev 14 coming

1 thes 4 coming

Acts 1 coming

Mat 24 taken/ left coming

Mat 25 bride groom coming

Read them all and see it is IMPOSSIBLE to make them into 1

NOBODY can honestly force fit it.

Nobody.

It only works in their circles with reframing and omission.

Which is Not bible at all.

Jesus comes - takes his saints - closes the door

What does not fit the scenario?