about the baker who lost business when sued by "gays"

[JesusWhereRU]

I see that you’ve got your head on straight! 😉
I agree. However, the Bible does tell us to “preach the gospel to every creature.”
Gays need to hear the gospel, too. Just because a lot of them reject the gospel, and honestly just hate God, that doesn’t mean that every single gay is totally opposed to the gospel. I have heard of quite a few people which got saved amd were able to turn from their wicked lifestyle and serve the LORD in amazing ways.
God saved wicked Manasseh, He can save them, too!!!

Please respond to both parts of my response here:

1) I don't recall Manasseh being "saved" but... maybe u could explain. There are many versions of the Bible .. yet I thought they basically all said the same thing in different words.. I have read the whole Bible, don't recall this...

2) In any case, I greatly appreciate what u say about preaching to gays. Some will get very nasty about you doing so but some will listen, presumably. And whether anyone listens or not, we are to preach to all as you say. The problem arises w hen you are in a public place like this... Maybe one needs to preach but very carefully...

 

[JesusWhereRU]

I would be the biggest hypocrite on the planet if I were to allow a gay person into my church so as a sinner might be Spiritually Healed, but then they come into my little bakery and I stand up and basically say to their face, "Get out." - Yep, and then next Sunday that same gay person comes to church and I hold my arms out and welcome them like nothing ever, ever happened.

Sick. Really sick. I cannot imagine being such a total jerk. I would hate myself.

sick. really sick " describes what gays do when they're alone w/ ea other.. THAT is what is sick. Sending a message to them that being perverse is OK is also sick.

And again

The baker did NOT (to my knowledge)...

Repeat:

did NOT.. tell them to get out.

 

[JesusWhereRU]

I wouldn't welcome them into my church either. Sodomites don't go to church in order to find Jesus. They go to church to infiltrate, corrupt, pervert, and destroy it. That's it. Yes, there might be an exception here and there. But the truth is if you want your garden to be productive, you've got to pull the weeds out on a regular basis.

I'll be standing by for one of your "okie dokie" responses.

great point. There are scripture passages that tell us to have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness.. that tell us that if our foot causes us to stumble, to cut it off and cast it from us... shake the dust off your feet and I could go on and on....

If Christians send a message that it is no big deal to be perverse... society thinks it is OK to be perverse...

 

[JesusWhereRU]

Ya. That's a good point. If a homosexual wants to dress, speak and act like a normal human being, then it would be pretty difficult to kick them out of church. But the moment they put on their gay voice, hold hands with their "partner", or wear their ridiculous outfits, then you know that they're just attracting attention to themselves. Get them out of there.

yes, few seem to address this issue of how "gays" flaunt being gay, demanding that society accept it, like it or not

Yet christians are not accepted like this a lot of the time...

I for one am getting very tired of it...

That said

Maybe Christians ought to flaunt their Christianity as much as some ppl flaunt their... anti-Christianity...

 

[JesusWhereRU]

I

That is Jesus telling us that we should follow the law of the land (paying tax is law) The law says you cannot discriminate service based on age, gender, race, sexual orientation etc The baker is not the one committing the sin of gay marriage. He's just following the law of the land and selling a cake to a customer. And Jesus said that's okay.

well, I guess a nonChristian would say

THere you go! The Bible does contradict itself!

Because there is the psg about the Apostles, when persecuted, said

"We must obey God rather than men" and there are other psgs I could quote as well...

I think all of us need to study this case better because... well, even I do not know exactly what the central problem was... I THINK it was that the couple wanted the baker to add 2 men at the top of the cake and/or something else...

I would ask that someone reading this, someone who has a lot of time (I do not) research this... Please, do us a favor.. I could maybe do it but not for a few days.. I mean, I like to read the whole Ct decision... which takes time..

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Co- exist is not a Biblical term or concept. In the world, not of it. Do you think Jesus would bake a cake for a gay wedding? If you do you never listened when Jesus talked with sinners.

Oh boy . . . back at me again? I've already covered these things with you and I'm don't have the time to repeat myself (over such non-essential teachings).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

A gay couple can attend my church, I'd have no issue with it. Why? Because my pastor preaches the truth. We had a couple come to our church, and our church is small but very generous. This couple weren't married and living together. They were living off the gov't and he refused to get a job. He got her pregnant and the women of the church wanted to throw a baby shower for her. The pastor said they could throw a shower if they wanted to but not in the church. The woman bragged at the baby shower that she was sleeping with her partner and living off the gov't. It got back to the pastor who went to them and told them they needed to get married and he needed to get a job. To this they were greatly offended, and promptly left the church. One of our members left with them. The next Sunday our pastor got up and explained the situation. He said "I have to do what is right, if it offends I cannot help that. I preach the truth and if you're offended take it up with Him." So if the pastor preaches the truth, people will either be convicted and repent or offended and leave. Either way, they can't say they never heard the truth.

That sounds like exactly what the Apostle Paul would have done. You see? If we could have actual dialog, I am certain that you'd understand what I mean. We are in agreement!!

Seriously, try not to over-think my words . . . or anyone else's. Calm down . . . relax a bit. I say that because though we are alive, right here, you aren't clarifying things before you enter into one of your rants, such as teaching me about "co-existing." Good grief.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Maybe Christians ought to flaunt their Christianity as much as some ppl flaunt their... anti-Christianity...

Sounds great! Isn't that what it means to place our lamp upon a hill for everyone to see?

 

[surfer14]

yes, few seem to address this issue of how "gays" flaunt being gay, demanding that society accept it, like it or not

Yet christians are not accepted like this a lot of the time...

I for one am getting very tired of it...

That said

Maybe Christians ought to flaunt their Christianity as much as some ppl flaunt their... anti-Christianity...

I LOVE participating in processionals. Did one last Sunday. So proud to be a part of it and humbled that I would be allowed to even participate.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Ya. But the moment they put on their gay voice, hold hands with their "partner", or wear their ridiculous outfits, then you know that they're just attracting attention to themselves. Get them out of there.

As one would with anyone who acts in a manner that defiles the house of God.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Now you're judging the bakers heart and his intent. And you're wrong for doing so. There are other cakes the baker is not willing to make, Halloween cakes for one. It's against what he believes. Why did the gay couple not go to a Muslim bakery and try to get a cake made? Exactly.




He's not discriminating. He has a right to his religious beliefs and if something goes against that the law cannot force him to make the cake. Freedom of religion still stands in America, for now. Jesus did not say it was ok. You're misusing the Scripture here.

You have me all wrong.

I never spoke of the Baker's intent. I mentioned that he would have unknowingly sold food to gay people and had no problem with it. You then mention other cakes her won't make. That's his call and a Halloween cake is not covered by anti discrimination law.

Jesus also said this in the gospel of Luke "He says, And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either."

I've already showed that Jesus said it's okay to follow the law of man where it's required - the crux of this matter is anti discrimination law with regards to providing goods and services. This passage speaks of doing something you probably don't want to do with a glad heart.

Therefore if the Baker refuses to make the cake because if his belief he's upholding his rigid belief but actually going against what Jesus teaches us to do in these situations. And when you go against his teachings, well if there are human consequences such as losing 40% of your business, God's going to let that happen. Just like it did.

Soooo in a nutshell. Of course the Baker has the right to exercise free will and say no to making a cake. But if he's doing in a manner that's not 100% in the spirit of Christ's teachings then he may experience consequences. Jesus spent a lot of time admonishing those who favoured strict adherence to the old law over love for their neighbours.

 

[kaylagrl]

Oh boy . . . back at me again? I've already covered these things with you and I'm don't have the time to repeat myself (over such non-essential teachings).

No, co-exist is a buzz word, so when Christians use it I usually point it out. It's a secular ideal, nothing to do with the Word. No one is asking you to repeat yourself. I may not catch every post you write.Just making the point, co-exist is not a Biblical concept.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No, co-exist is a buzz word, so when Christians use it I usually point it out. It's a secular ideal, nothing to do with the Word. No one is asking you to repeat yourself. I may not catch every post you write.Just making the point, co-exist is not a Biblical concept.

Okie Doke.

 

[Mark47Oz]

well, I guess a nonChristian would say

THere you go! The Bible does contradict itself!

Because there is the psg about the Apostles, when persecuted, said

"We must obey God rather than men" and there are other psgs I could quote as well...

I think all of us need to study this case better because... well, even I do not know exactly what the central problem was... I THINK it was that the couple wanted the baker to add 2 men at the top of the cake and/or something else...

I would ask that someone reading this, someone who has a lot of time (I do not) research this... Please, do us a favor.. I could maybe do it but not for a few days.. I mean, I like to read the whole Ct decision... which takes time..

Paul writes in Galatians 5:22-23, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Peter also addresses the Christian’s relation to government in writing, “Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor” (1 Peter 2:17).

See, again writings say we should 'show proper respect' to others.

Remember, the baker was NOT being asked to be involved in the act of the marriage itself, which is a human (therefore ungodly) law. If he refused to attend or be celebrant then he would be inline with what you're aiming at. The baker was simply asked to make a cake. The law that the baker got entangled in is one of non discrimination in terms of service.

And here the debate would be that of morality and whether treating everyone equally in a food shop is Godly or not.

 

[surfer14]

Okie Doke.

The cakes that were requested were in honor of satan - complete with pentagrams and upside down crosses and depictions of satan performing sex acts. That'sa what you're advocating for.

It's not about cake. It's about subjugation. Baking the cake is bending the knee.

 

[Runningman]

I was relieved when I heard that theSupreme Court, which I had almost come to despise, made the correct decision in the baker case..

A baker named Phillips in CO had to deal with "gay people" demanding that he bake them a cake for their same sex wedding and he refused bc of his Christians beliefs on gay marriage. (I put "gay" in quotes attimes bc I don't believe in being gay, don't believe anyone is born gay.. its nonsense)

So the Supreme Ct voted in favor of religious freedom... whew... They've made a lot of bad decisions b4 butthis was not one of them.

So then a transgendered person thought he (she?) would do the samething to the same guy! Unbelievable.

Phillips had lost 40% of his business over thefirst lawsuit, fighting some (city?) Commission that ordered him not to make certain kinds of cakes anymore... So much for "it's a free country"...

anyway, the transgendered person at some point dropped the suit

I just thought I would share this w/ others who may not know about it..

sigh

[nostalgic sigh for the good old days when hardly anyone claimed to be "gay"]

If the baker thought that by making a cake for their gay marriage he would be instrumental in their celebration of something that violates the conscience of his firmly-held beliefs then he probably shouldn't make the cake.

Whether the baker was right or wrong is a matter of opinion, I think, but he stayed true to his convictions.

Food for thought: when Jesus flipped over the tables of merchants and money changers in the temple was He condemning commerce and economy? Or was He condemning the temple of God being utilized in dishonorable ways? Does utilizing a bakery to enable sin glorify God?

Big question: what would Jesus do?

 

[Mark47Oz]

If the baker thought that by making a cake for their gay marriage he would be instrumental in their celebration of something that violates the conscience of his firmly-held beliefs then he probably shouldn't make the cake.

Whether the baker was right or wrong is a matter of opinion, I think, but he stayed true to his convictions.

Food for thought: when Jesus flipped over the tables of merchants and money changers in the temple was He condemning commerce and economy? Or was He condemning the temple of God being utilized in dishonorable ways? Does utilizing a bakery to enable sin glorify God?

Big question: what would Jesus do?

Well, if the post above yours is correct and the couple requested a satanic themed cake, the Baker is either a complete idiot, or he really hates gay people.

Refusing to make a cake with Satanic theming is ungodly and therefore in complete unison with what you've been suggesting in regards to the Christian viewpoint and holding true to your beliefs. Satanism is diametrically opposed to Christianity

It's also the easiest way out for him under common law. Anti discrimination law would protect him, because one religion cannot force another to do it's bidding. So a baker can refuse to make a satanic themed cake. Just like a Rabbi can refuse to marry a Hindu couple. It's also hope he gets away with not making Halloween themed cake.

As for Jesus going on a rampage in the temple, that was definitely about inappropriate things going on in the house of God. That was about respect for the temple being a holy place for worshipping and not the local bazaar.

You could relate it back to this scenario in terms of a church allowing a gay marriage to take place within it. I'm pretty certain, no, in fact I'm 100% sure that Jesus would be furious if that were to happen.

As for a bakery, that's a mundane place, and not part of the church. Baking a cake doesn't enable this sin (gay marriage) The act of signing the marriage registry and the state recognising it is where the sin occurs. The cake is really just an innocent bystander because a wedding can happen without it. So therefore it's not an enabler of it. The celebrant, the couple and the state are the enablers.

 

[Runningman]

Well, if the post above yours is correct and the couple requested a satanic themed cake, the Baker is either a complete idiot, or he really hates gay people.

Refusing to make a cake with Satanic theming is ungodly and therefore in complete unison with what you've been suggesting in regards to the Christian viewpoint and holding true to your beliefs. Satanism is diametrically opposed to Christianity

It's also the easiest way out for him under common law. Anti discrimination law would protect him, because one religion cannot force another to do it's bidding. So a baker can refuse to make a satanic themed cake. Just like a Rabbi can refuse to marry a Hindu couple. It's also hope he gets away with not making Halloween themed cake.

As for Jesus going on a rampage in the temple, that was definitely about inappropriate things going on in the house of God. That was about respect for the temple being a holy place for worshipping and not the local bazaar.

You could relate it back to this scenario in terms of a church allowing a gay marriage to take place within it. I'm pretty certain, no, in fact I'm 100% sure that Jesus would be furious if that were to happen.

As for a bakery, that's a mundane place, and not part of the church. Baking a cake doesn't enable this sin (gay marriage) The act of signing the marriage registry and the state recognising it is where the sin occurs. The cake is really just an innocent bystander because a wedding can happen without it. So therefore it's not an enabler of it. The celebrant, the couple and the state are the enablers.

Ok I can respect your view, but I have some differences that I hold.

I think we're always "at church" and that every place is a mundane place now. We are each walking, talking churches, temples of the holy Spirit, collectively. Whether we are in a brick and mortar "church" building on Sunday or a bakery is irrelevant I believe. God goes with us everywhere and we reasonably owe Him worship at all times.

So even though the bakery is not used primarily for praise and worship singing, it can be, and so can the sidewalk. Rather than stand idly by while an unabating secular invasion inundates every sector of our lives, pushing us further and further out of the local bazaar, we should not cede anymore ground. Instead, we should start taking ground back. I think the baker did just that.

We know marriage is sacred to God. One man and one woman right? I think that baking a cake for a homosexual marriage can be seen as an endorsement of something wrong. Again, I think it's an opinion and I can see how one could go either way. I think the baker did fine.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Ok I can respect your view, but I have some differences that I hold.

I think we're always "at church" and that every place is a mundane place now. We are each walking, talking churches, temples of the holy Spirit, collectively. Whether we are in a brick and mortar "church" building on Sunday or a bakery is irrelevant I believe. God goes with us everywhere and we reasonably owe Him worship at all times.

So even though the bakery is not used primarily for praise and worship singing, it can be, and so can the sidewalk. Rather than stand idly by while an unabating secular invasion inundates every sector of our lives, pushing us further and further out of the local bazaar, we should not cede anymore ground. Instead, we should start taking ground back. I think the baker did just that.

We know marriage is sacred to God. One man and one woman right? I think that baking a cake for a homosexual marriage can be seen as an endorsement of something wrong. Again, I think it's an opinion and I can see how one could go either way. I think the baker did fine.

I think my personal take out from all this is don't be a baker 🤣

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Paul writes in Galatians 5:22-23, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Peter also addresses the Christian’s relation to government in writing, “Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor” (1 Peter 2:17).

See, again writings say we should 'show proper respect' to others.

Remember, the baker was NOT being asked to be involved in the act of the marriage itself, which is a human (therefore ungodly) law. If he refused to attend or be celebrant then he would be in line with what you're aiming at. The baker was simply asked to make a cake. The law that the baker got entangled in is one of non-discrimination in terms of service.

And here the debate would be that of morality and whether treating everyone equally in a food shop is Godly or not.

Nice work. There is so much to be added, such as how Jesus rescued the life of an adulterous woman. He saved her life! And what about the Canaanite woman and her ill daughter? Were not the Canaanite called by God to be completely wiped out? Didn't God tell all Israel to completely destroy all from the Seven Nations? Of course, He did, and thus Jesus said that He shouldn't cast his crumbs to "dogs."

Matthew 15:22-28 KJV - "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

Canaanites were total abominations . . . worse than those who were "gay." Yes, Jesus Purified her Heart as well as the Heart of her daughter. Jesus stooped to the depths of abominations and shed His Love upon them. What else to we need to know? But isn't there more? Doesn't the Word tell us that God waits patiently for all to come to Him? So God is patient, but we are not to be patient? How are we reflective of a patient God, if we lack the self-control to be patient as well?