Blind to grace .

[throughfaith]

Its readily apparent that if you spend any length of time as a believer the most discouragement, despair, fear and doubt comes from .....Yes ,other 'Christians '
The doubt of course is undoubtedly on ' Grace ' and ' free gift ' . This is completely lost of the majority of Christians. I believe they too probably started out with Joy and were then equally brought down in flames with the ' Lord shippers ' , the ' Lords Navy ' ( Water, water every where) and those ' if , but , maybe conditional, probationary teachers .
Its ironic ,in Church on Sunday morning every one is rejoicing ,singing along to those great hymns of blessed assurance , eternal security, gurenteed heaven , joy unspeakable. Only to be followed by a message of doom upon the congregation, that they better be keeping in line otherwise your name will be blotting out " But don't have fear , it definitely won't be me ,the pastor ,but I'm thinking you lot "
Yes , what tragedy that crushes the life out of the believer, shipwrecking his faith, stealing his joy .
What were looking at here is the different degrees at which some teach . I myself only in the last two years realised I was also teaching a type of Lordship salvation ,unwittingly. Thats the tragedy, most believers cannot understand Grace and a 'free gift 'that salvation is today .
Thoughts ?

 

[wattie]

Its readily apparent that if you spend any length of time as a believer the most discouragement, despair, fear and doubt comes from .....Yes ,other 'Christians '
The doubt of course is undoubtedly on ' Grace ' and ' free gift ' . This is completely lost of the majority of Christians. I believe they too probably started out with Joy and were then equally brought down in flames with the ' Lord shippers ' , the ' Lords Navy ' ( Water, water every where) and those ' if , but , maybe conditional, probationary teachers .
Its ironic ,in Church on Sunday morning every one is rejoicing ,singing along to those great hymns of blessed assurance , eternal security, gurenteed heaven , joy unspeakable. Only to be followed by a message of doom upon the congregation, that they better be keeping in line otherwise your name will be blotting out " But don't have fear , it definitely won't be me ,the pastor ,but I'm thinking you lot "
Yes , what tragedy that crushes the life out of the believer, shipwrecking his faith, stealing his joy .
What were looking at here is the different degrees at which some teach . I myself only in the last two years realised I was also teaching a type of Lordship salvation ,unwittingly. Thats the tragedy, most believers cannot understand Grace and a 'free gift 'that salvation is today .
Thoughts ?

Yes, it would be great if freedom in Christ, broken chains and liberty were preached more, but we also have increasing affects of sin on Christian's as the world gets more ungodly.

My wife is divorcing me at the moment and when at church the pastor preaches on marriage, you cant ignore some home truths about what the husband should do when the wife is leaving.

So with other sin issues like pornography, self worship and adultery.. the world is rife with it. So you will find pastors preaching against it.

I wish the messages I get were more undergirded by grace, like you say. That is where freedom from sin comes.. because the bonds are undone.

Unfortunately many preachers focus on musts and shoulds without the grace

 

[Nehemiah6]

I myself only in the last two years realised I was also teaching a type of Lordship salvation ,unwittingly. Thats the tragedy, most believers cannot understand Grace and a 'free gift 'that salvation is today .

The Lordship of Christ is perfectly compatible with grace and the free gift of eternal life (salvation or justification). God has made that same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), therefore every believe must do the same. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ means to believe that He is both Lord and Christ. So what exactly is your problem? Do you have a problem with calling Jesus "Lord"? If so you have a very serious problem.

 

[wattie]

I have the understanding lordship salvation involves rather than simply believing Jesus is God, that He died for your sin and rose again, and that leading to Jesus saving someone..

That person would have to be lessening the sin in areas of their life at the same time, thereby making it self effort/works in the process of getting eternal life.

My impression is lordship salvation is saying that a saved person WILL do good works or they were never saved to begin with.

When they could be saying that the person did nothing to receive Christ but simply believe and that there will be FRUIT from being eternally saved... but no guarantee they will be doing good works.

Jesus doesn't become no 1 in every part of a saved persons life straight away, it takes time.

As LeCrae puts it.. 'if you feel like you gotta clean up every area of your life, forget it. Just come to Him. Christ changed me.'

 

[throughfaith]

The Lordship of Christ is perfectly compatible with grace and the free gift of eternal life (salvation or justification). God has made that same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), therefore every believe must do the same. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ means to believe that He is both Lord and Christ. So what exactly is your problem? Do you have a problem with calling Jesus "Lord"? If so you have a very serious problem.

What does believing Jesus is Lord have to do with what i said ?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Jesus doesn't become no 1 in every part of a saved persons life straight away, it takes time.

Amen! Some of us are VERY Slow learners, plus, I know of NO physical
human who "trained and ran a marathon" when they were were still
infants/young children! Maturity "takes time," correct?

However, after learning a few basics such as Which Are Correct Scriptures,
Searching them daily, finding out More about our New ETERNAL
Relationship With God, understanding Forgiveness of ALL sin By The
Precious BLOOD Of THE SAVIOUR, And What Else He Is Doing Today, And
Solving {By Rightly Dividing HIS Word Of Truth!} the Confusion of
religious Contradictions, Then with this maturity, we should Find Out:

"By The Spirit Of God, we can call HIM LORD, and THEN realize definitely that:

"we are Called Into Fellowship With The LORD JESUS CHRIST," and
hopefully see, By GRACE, that we can, as Paul says: "die Daily," And:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, By The Mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that Good, and Acceptable, and Perfect, Will of God." (Romans 12 : 1-2 KJB!)

Fellowship, "running the race..." (1 Corinthians 9 : 24 cp
1Co_9:26; Gal_2:2, Gal_5:7; Php_2:16, Php_3:14; 2Ti_4:7-8 KJB!)
"...for rewards..." (1 Corinthians 3 : 7-15 KJB!), Correct?

Conclusion: Is there not a BIG Difference Between:

God, The SAVIOUR, Establishing With us, An ETERNAL Relationship
And:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

we, maturing, and submitting To HIM, As LORD, in fellowship?​

Speaking of which, In What "He Is Doing Today," He Also Teaches:

"And to make all men see what is The Fellowship of the Mystery,
Which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who
Created all things by JESUS CHRIST:" (Ephesians 3 : 9 KJB!)

Be Blessed!

 

[joaniemarie]

Its readily apparent that if you spend any length of time as a believer the most discouragement, despair, fear and doubt comes from .....Yes ,other 'Christians '
The doubt of course is undoubtedly on ' Grace ' and ' free gift ' . This is completely lost of the majority of Christians. I believe they too probably started out with Joy and were then equally brought down in flames with the ' Lord shippers ' , the ' Lords Navy ' ( Water, water every where) and those ' if , but , maybe conditional, probationary teachers .
Its ironic ,in Church on Sunday morning every one is rejoicing ,singing along to those great hymns of blessed assurance , eternal security, gurenteed heaven , joy unspeakable. Only to be followed by a message of doom upon the congregation, that they better be keeping in line otherwise your name will be blotting out " But don't have fear , it definitely won't be me ,the pastor ,but I'm thinking you lot "
Yes , what tragedy that crushes the life out of the believer, shipwrecking his faith, stealing his joy .
What were looking at here is the different degrees at which some teach . I myself only in the last two years realised I was also teaching a type of Lordship salvation ,unwittingly. Thats the tragedy, most believers cannot understand Grace and a 'free gift 'that salvation is today .
Thoughts ?

Sad to say I agree with you., Christians have been known to shoot their own. Grace is a supernatural truth that the natural man will not receive. Unfortunately many a believer walks in the natural. All us believers will STILL BE LEARNING for as long as we are in these mortal bodies to "walk in the Spirit so we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." Thank YOU JESUS for the GRACE you provide for our eternal life and the temporal one here on earth.

 

[joaniemarie]

I have the understanding lordship salvation involves rather than simply believing Jesus is God, that He died for your sin and rose again, and that leading to Jesus saving someone..

That person would have to be lessening the sin in areas of their life at the same time, thereby making it self effort/works in the process of getting eternal life.

My impression is lordship salvation is saying that a saved person WILL do good works or they were never saved to begin with.

When they could be saying that the person did nothing to receive Christ but simply believe and that there will be FRUIT from being eternally saved... but no guarantee they will be doing good works.

Jesus doesn't become no 1 in every part of a saved persons life straight away, it takes time.

As LeCrae puts it.. 'if you feel like you gotta clean up every area of your life, forget it. Just come to Him. Christ changed me.'

Exactly., It's like saying to a young child or to a baby...."WHERE'S YOUR BEARD SON?!! WHERE'S YOUR BEARD!!!??? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE A BEARD??!!!

 

[ResidentAlien]

Its readily apparent that if you spend any length of time as a believer the most discouragement, despair, fear and doubt comes from .....Yes ,other 'Christians '
The doubt of course is undoubtedly on ' Grace ' and ' free gift ' . This is completely lost of the majority of Christians. I believe they too probably started out with Joy and were then equally brought down in flames with the ' Lord shippers ' , the ' Lords Navy ' ( Water, water every where) and those ' if , but , maybe conditional, probationary teachers .
Its ironic ,in Church on Sunday morning every one is rejoicing ,singing along to those great hymns of blessed assurance , eternal security, gurenteed heaven , joy unspeakable. Only to be followed by a message of doom upon the congregation, that they better be keeping in line otherwise your name will be blotting out " But don't have fear , it definitely won't be me ,the pastor ,but I'm thinking you lot "
Yes , what tragedy that crushes the life out of the believer, shipwrecking his faith, stealing his joy .
What were looking at here is the different degrees at which some teach . I myself only in the last two years realised I was also teaching a type of Lordship salvation ,unwittingly. Thats the tragedy, most believers cannot understand Grace and a 'free gift 'that salvation is today .
Thoughts ?

So what do you believe the remedy for all this is? The free gift of grace certainly. But how should this play out in our daily relationships with other believers?

 

[soberxp]

Always believe that something good is about to happen，
You can't decide when you come across something
use Quantum mechanics, the power of God

 

[throughfaith]

So what do you believe the remedy for all this is? The free gift of grace certainly. But how should this play out in our daily relationships with other believers?

Good bible teaching. How to read and apply it . Then the' Galation type errors' ( where its not Just keeping the law and circumcision, but a form of this to one degree or another is taught)would not be as rampant .

 

[Hevosmies]

Ive noticed the opposite on here. Its nothing BUT grace being used as a license to sin, while claiming we not doing that.

This teaching is the reason why the churches are so messed up.

 

[throughfaith]

Ive noticed the opposite on here. Its nothing BUT grace being used as a license to sin, while claiming we not doing that.

This teaching is the reason why the churches are so messed up.

Its my experience that the majority of denominations teach the very thing I'm describing in this op . So could it be something else that's responsible?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What does believing Jesus is Lord have to do with what i said ?

Since you are objecting to "Lordship salvation" and Jesus is Lord, you have a serious problem. You do not understand salvation or grace, since both involve Christ as Lord.

 

[loveme1]

Faith... our Faith to keep believing and asking for strength and comfort to abide here in this world.. ‘Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from all evil’ We have temptations.. we are new Spirits in the mortal flesh..

Needing oil for our lamps..

It is our Faith..

 

[throughfaith]

Since you are objecting to "Lordship salvation" and Jesus is Lord, you have a serious problem. You do not understand salvation or grace, since both involve Christ as Lord.

Romans 10 ,9 -15 clearly says Jesus is Lord . So yes in order to be saved ,as it says , a person has to also believe Jesus is Lord . As opposed to a created being or such things. So having made that quite clear, what is your point ? Now the person has already believed ( 1 cor 1.21 ) Jesus has died for their sins, and that he is Lord as Per Rom 10 ,9-15 and 1cor 15 ,1-4 ,he has recieved Jesus ( John 1.12 ) The Holy Spirit ( Eph 1.13 ) , Ok now what is your point ?

 

[throughfaith]

Since you are objecting to "Lordship salvation" and Jesus is Lord, you have a serious problem. You do not understand salvation or grace, since both involve Christ as Lord.

I object to subtle ' works salvation ' . Thats what I believe is at the heart of ' Lordship salvation ' as taught by Calvinism ,but unfortunately has permeated its way into many denominations.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I object to subtle ' works salvation ' . Thats what I believe is at the heart of ' Lordship salvation ' as taught by Calvinism ,but unfortunately has permeated its way into many denominations.

Agreed.




As to your OP, I pray you have at least one other person in your immediate circle (i.e. local church) that grasps what you do [/what you grasp]. = )

 

[Nehemiah6]

I object to subtle ' works salvation '

You are simply confused about salvation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ok now what is your point ?

The point is that the one who believes on Jesus must also make Him Lord. And that is Lordship salvation, which you reject. It is not mere mental assent.