50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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^ @OldSage, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" - Rev1:1 [/ 4:1 / 1:19c]... this is saying that what God did not disclose to even JESUS during His earthly ministry BEFORE His death, He now HAS given to Jesus TO DISCLOSE (in the Revelation).
So Jesus provides that "further information" (on that very Subject-Matt24:36 and parallels) THEREIN (in Rev).
I pointed out that Revelation has numerous time-stamps and timing-indicators throughout it, and this (what I'd said there) is one of those (re: Rev19 and His "RETURN" to the earth, at that point in the chronology).
But I'm not going to spell out that answer FOR you.
[note: "knoweth [PERFECT indicative] no man [not even Jesus]" is NOT saying "no one WILL ever know," or "no one CAN ever know"... Jesus has known ever since His ascension / exaltation, and He LATER provided "further information" on THAT SUBJECT, in His LATER 95ad "Revelation" (providing a slew of time-stamps / timing-indicators--some more readily apparent than others, so quite a bit more than is commonly recognized within this text--and ALL of which add up to the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [future] time-period [aka the 7-yrs / "ONE WEEK" / 2520 days])]
So Jesus provides that "further information" (on that very Subject-Matt24:36 and parallels) THEREIN (in Rev).
I pointed out that Revelation has numerous time-stamps and timing-indicators throughout it, and this (what I'd said there) is one of those (re: Rev19 and His "RETURN" to the earth, at that point in the chronology).
But I'm not going to spell out that answer FOR you.
[note: "knoweth [PERFECT indicative] no man [not even Jesus]" is NOT saying "no one WILL ever know," or "no one CAN ever know"... Jesus has known ever since His ascension / exaltation, and He LATER provided "further information" on THAT SUBJECT, in His LATER 95ad "Revelation" (providing a slew of time-stamps / timing-indicators--some more readily apparent than others, so quite a bit more than is commonly recognized within this text--and ALL of which add up to the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [future] time-period [aka the 7-yrs / "ONE WEEK" / 2520 days])]
^ @OldSage, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" - Rev1:1 [/ 4:1 / 1:19c]... this is saying that what God did not disclose to even JESUS during His earthly ministry BEFORE His death, He now HAS given to Jesus TO DISCLOSE (in the Revelation).
So Jesus provides that "further information" (on that very Subject-Matt24:36 and parallels) THEREIN (in Rev).
I pointed out that Revelation has numerous time-stamps and timing-indicators throughout it, and this (what I'd said there) is one of those (re: Rev19 and His "RETURN" to the earth, at that point in the chronology).
But I'm not going to spell out that answer FOR you.
[note: "knoweth [PERFECT indicative] no man [not even Jesus]" is NOT saying "no one WILL ever know," or "no one CAN ever know"... Jesus has known ever since His ascension / exaltation, and He LATER provided "further information" on THAT SUBJECT, in His LATER 95ad "Revelation" (providing a slew of time-stamps / timing-indicators--some more readily apparent than others, so quite a bit more than is commonly recognized within this text--and ALL of which add up to the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [future] time-period [aka the 7-yrs / "ONE WEEK" / 2520 days])]
So Jesus provides that "further information" (on that very Subject-Matt24:36 and parallels) THEREIN (in Rev).
I pointed out that Revelation has numerous time-stamps and timing-indicators throughout it, and this (what I'd said there) is one of those (re: Rev19 and His "RETURN" to the earth, at that point in the chronology).
But I'm not going to spell out that answer FOR you.
[note: "knoweth [PERFECT indicative] no man [not even Jesus]" is NOT saying "no one WILL ever know," or "no one CAN ever know"... Jesus has known ever since His ascension / exaltation, and He LATER provided "further information" on THAT SUBJECT, in His LATER 95ad "Revelation" (providing a slew of time-stamps / timing-indicators--some more readily apparent than others, so quite a bit more than is commonly recognized within this text--and ALL of which add up to the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [future] time-period [aka the 7-yrs / "ONE WEEK" / 2520 days])]
..........and answer came there none.............we are still waiting TDW
When does Jesus return? Or are you scared of becoming an apocalyptic cult leader?
Hebrews 9:27 (NKJV)
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
I suspect ENOCH and ELIJAH will be the Two Witnesses of Revelation, they do signs and wonder, because ISRAEL Requires a Sign. They will be recognized by ISRAEL, probably by the WILL OF GOD. So their MINISTRY is to bring the remaining Jews to BELIEVE JESUS is their MESSIAH. The Antichrist will be busy chopping of their heads as quick as he can catch them.
Revelation 20:4 (HCSB)
4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. ⌊I⌋ also ⌊saw⌋ the people who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God’s word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years.
We will not see the TWO WITNESSES, as Christ will have CALLED us to go to the WEDDING In Heaven, before that.
You know, I thought you had your head on pretty straight, but now I see it is slightly to the side.
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Major milestone will be the presence of a third temple complete with temple operations: sacrifices, ceremonies, etc. In theory, it should be a matter of plugging in the numbers - that is assuming that as soon as the third temple is operational that the count down clock begins. Can't make that assumption so back at square one, in my opinion.
However, there is no definitive scripture, as far as I know, that proclaims for what period of time the third temple is present before it has an abomination of desolation.
According to scriptures, there will be signs accompanying this period. When you see the the "two witnesses" show up for 3.5 years you know things are getting serious. One that note, there will likely be many false prophets and false Christs to muddy the waters.
Of course, we don't know when all of these different prophecies will converge and coalesce, but the Bible does give enough specific numbers and markers to get a very specific idea when certain events should happen once the conditions are present.
I think that's what Jesus meant when He said that no one knows, not even Himself, save the Father, when He returns will be.
That being said, I'm against making predictions of specific days and times. I think that's bad.
However, there is no definitive scripture, as far as I know, that proclaims for what period of time the third temple is present before it has an abomination of desolation.
According to scriptures, there will be signs accompanying this period. When you see the the "two witnesses" show up for 3.5 years you know things are getting serious. One that note, there will likely be many false prophets and false Christs to muddy the waters.
Of course, we don't know when all of these different prophecies will converge and coalesce, but the Bible does give enough specific numbers and markers to get a very specific idea when certain events should happen once the conditions are present.
I think that's what Jesus meant when He said that no one knows, not even Himself, save the Father, when He returns will be.
That being said, I'm against making predictions of specific days and times. I think that's bad.
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Rev 10:7
But in the ***DAYS*** of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.
Certainly no instantaneous action of Saints being resurrected in this verse either. Post tribbers holding an empty bag again........
But in the ***DAYS*** of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.
Certainly no instantaneous action of Saints being resurrected in this verse either. Post tribbers holding an empty bag again........
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Rev 10:7
But in the ***DAYS*** of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.
Certainly no instantaneous action of Saints being resurrected in this verse either. Post tribbers holding an empty bag again........
But in the ***DAYS*** of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.
Certainly no instantaneous action of Saints being resurrected in this verse either. Post tribbers holding an empty bag again........
The old english the KJV uses is always causing issues:
"in the days" simply means the "time of"...the moment when the 7th trump starts to sound then the mystery of God will be finished.
This is simply what it is saying:
Revelation 10:7
(CEV) God told his secret plans to his servants the prophets, and it will all happen by the time the seventh angel sounds his trumpet."
(GNB) But when the seventh angel blows his trumpet, then God will accomplish his secret plan, as he announced to his servants, the prophets."
(ISV) When the time approaches for the seventh angel to blow his trumpet, God's secret plan will be fulfilled, as he had announced to his servants, the prophets."
The 7th trump isn't going to sound for days and days like the KJV makes it seem.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Here again is the same issue making it seem that the second coming is several days when it's a moment of a day.
Nope. You are absolutely wrong about that.
Strongs G2250.
As used in Rev 10:7, the context definitely indicates "days" in the way anyone would naturally think of it. Go ahead and look at all of those 389 Scriptural references.
Mat 2:1, Mat 3:1.........etc etc etc.
Mat 4:2
And when he had fasted for 40 ***DAYS*** and 40 nights, He was afterward an hungered.
Strongs G2250.
As used in Rev 10:7, the context definitely indicates "days" in the way anyone would naturally think of it. Go ahead and look at all of those 389 Scriptural references.
Mat 2:1, Mat 3:1.........etc etc etc.
Mat 4:2
And when he had fasted for 40 ***DAYS*** and 40 nights, He was afterward an hungered.
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No, I'm not wrong. Neither the 7th trump nor the second coming is for several days. The trump sounds and is done which signals the second coming which happens right away. At the end of that one day, Satan will be imprisoned and the two beasts and their army will be destroyed. Then the thousand year reign begins.
Agreed. THAT kind of "bow" aka "the battle bow" (its last 3 occurrences in the OT)
--in contexts speaking of a "DECEITFUL bow" - Psalm 78:9 / Hosea 7:16
--in contexts speaking of "bend THEIR TONGUES like bows; LIES prevail over truth in the land. For they proceed from evil to evil, and they do not take Me into account,” declares the LORD." - Jeremiah 9:3
--in contexts speaking of "The WICKED have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation." - Psalm 11:2 / 37:14
[etc...]
Likewise, there are a number of verses speaking of "ARROWS" in the same way ('lies' /'deceit').
Jesus says, in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "Take heed, lest A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis] *deceive* you, FOR MANY will come in My name saying..." (i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" [with many more following on from THOSE], where the INITIAL ONE, Paul says [1Th5:2-3] is at the *ARRIVAL* of the DOTL time-period, aka the START of the TRIB YRS! aka SEAL #1... aka the "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan" [lying wonders... deceivableness...] of "the man of sin" 2Th2:9a, IN HIS TIME [the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time-period, aka the first aspect of "the DOTL," meaning the "7 TRIB yrs"] )
... and which SEAL #1 which Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 says (when you COMPARE THE GREEK):
--that 'mello [SURE to / CERTAIN to]' MEANS the same as "MUST";
--and "TO SHEW UNTO" = "I WILL SHEW YOU";
--and "things which must come to pass AFTER THESE THINGS" = "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" in CONTRAST TO "the things WHICH ARE" which are NOT said to be "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"),
... that this is speaking of the specific, future, LIMITED time-period [the 7 yrs] that both Rom16:20 ("CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*") and Lk18:8 ("AVENGE *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*") ALSO speak to! [not speaking of "NOW"... but FOLLOWING "our Rapture"];
...and when you consider that the "4 living creatures" are described in the SAME WAY that the "4-directional plotment" of Israel is described in the OT (so, concerning "earthly-located" matters), but interestingly enough, also specific "time-stamp-related" things (each of the "4 living creatures," that is);
... and when you consider that this is when Jesus will 'STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13, Rev5:9 etc;
...and when you consider that 5:6 states "seven Spirits of God HAVING BEEN SENT [PERFECT participle] out into/unto all the earth" can just as easily mean, FOLLOWING "our Rapture / THE Departure";
...and when you consider that "kings went [/go] out to battle" at a VERY SPECIFIC point-in-time/date (in Scripture), think: Jesus in Rev19, then counting back precisely "2520 days," one can see that the Rev5:6 "context"/setting ("[saw IN THE MIDST of the throne and of the 4 living creatures and IN THE MIDST of the elders (i.e. UP IN Heaven)] a Lamb STANDING as HAVING BEEN SLAIN [PERFECT participle]...") is also pinpointing a particular calendar date [but not back in "32ad," see ])
--way too much more to say about this topic... but as you can see, I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint that the SEALS have been unfolding since the first century. No.
[BTW, I *disagree* that the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (Rev7:9,14) coming out of "THE GREAT tribulation" (i.e. the SECOND HALF of the 7 yrs) are "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... NO. Disagree!]
--in contexts speaking of a "DECEITFUL bow" - Psalm 78:9 / Hosea 7:16
--in contexts speaking of "bend THEIR TONGUES like bows; LIES prevail over truth in the land. For they proceed from evil to evil, and they do not take Me into account,” declares the LORD." - Jeremiah 9:3
--in contexts speaking of "The WICKED have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation." - Psalm 11:2 / 37:14
[etc...]
Likewise, there are a number of verses speaking of "ARROWS" in the same way ('lies' /'deceit').
Jesus says, in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "Take heed, lest A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis] *deceive* you, FOR MANY will come in My name saying..." (i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" [with many more following on from THOSE], where the INITIAL ONE, Paul says [1Th5:2-3] is at the *ARRIVAL* of the DOTL time-period, aka the START of the TRIB YRS! aka SEAL #1... aka the "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan" [lying wonders... deceivableness...] of "the man of sin" 2Th2:9a, IN HIS TIME [the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time-period, aka the first aspect of "the DOTL," meaning the "7 TRIB yrs"] )
... and which SEAL #1 which Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 says (when you COMPARE THE GREEK):
--that 'mello [SURE to / CERTAIN to]' MEANS the same as "MUST";
--and "TO SHEW UNTO" = "I WILL SHEW YOU";
--and "things which must come to pass AFTER THESE THINGS" = "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" in CONTRAST TO "the things WHICH ARE" which are NOT said to be "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"),
... that this is speaking of the specific, future, LIMITED time-period [the 7 yrs] that both Rom16:20 ("CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*") and Lk18:8 ("AVENGE *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*") ALSO speak to! [not speaking of "NOW"... but FOLLOWING "our Rapture"];
...and when you consider that the "4 living creatures" are described in the SAME WAY that the "4-directional plotment" of Israel is described in the OT (so, concerning "earthly-located" matters), but interestingly enough, also specific "time-stamp-related" things (each of the "4 living creatures," that is);
... and when you consider that this is when Jesus will 'STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13, Rev5:9 etc;
...and when you consider that 5:6 states "seven Spirits of God HAVING BEEN SENT [PERFECT participle] out into/unto all the earth" can just as easily mean, FOLLOWING "our Rapture / THE Departure";
...and when you consider that "kings went [/go] out to battle" at a VERY SPECIFIC point-in-time/date (in Scripture), think: Jesus in Rev19, then counting back precisely "2520 days," one can see that the Rev5:6 "context"/setting ("[saw IN THE MIDST of the throne and of the 4 living creatures and IN THE MIDST of the elders (i.e. UP IN Heaven)] a Lamb STANDING as HAVING BEEN SLAIN [PERFECT participle]...") is also pinpointing a particular calendar date [but not back in "32ad," see
])--way too much more to say about this topic... but as you can see, I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint that the SEALS have been unfolding since the first century. No.
[BTW, I *disagree* that the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (Rev7:9,14) coming out of "THE GREAT tribulation" (i.e. the SECOND HALF of the 7 yrs) are "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... NO. Disagree!]
But what if the Church overcomes the Antichrist?
What if the the Church filling the earth is what really precedes Jesus return?
According to Matthew the world understands that Jesus is Christ
And then they are convicted of sin and are penitent
This is the last thing that happens before Christ returns
What if the the Church filling the earth is what really precedes Jesus return?
According to Matthew the world understands that Jesus is Christ
And then they are convicted of sin and are penitent
This is the last thing that happens before Christ returns
Good question, but per 2 Thessalonians 2 I am convinced of a more pessimistic series of events. I believe there will be large-scale apostasy taking place in the church prior to the revealing of the anti-Christ. Of course this won't happen overnight, but I think apostasy will reach a critical mass, so to speak, where enough "salt and light" of the world will be removed to give way to moral and spiritual decay not seen since the days of Noah.
Wickedness filled the earth. I think it'll get bad, but not sure exactly what it'll look like. I think it's pretty bad now, but I imagine it'll be more like wickedness on steroids where every single last thought of people are abominations.
Wickedness filled the earth. I think it'll get bad, but not sure exactly what it'll look like. I think it's pretty bad now, but I imagine it'll be more like wickedness on steroids where every single last thought of people are abominations.
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