To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?
- Thread starter Shlomit
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No one can take away the The Ark of the Covenant because it will die， just need a look at it........
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the Ark of his Testament [Covenant]: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Rev 11:19)
The real dietary law, the spiritual law, is that we are not to feed our spirit with garbage food. When you say Jesus broke that law, it is because you are speaking as a person who is accepting the fleshly world as the real lasting world and that is not the truth of it. Jesus did NOT break the real dietary law. God is spirit.
-
1
- Show all
The OT speaks of the spirit of God by giving fleshly illustrations of that spirit. That does not mean that we are to get so stuck in our flesh we can't see the spirit of the flesh the OT is using to tell us of Him. That would be a way of denying that we have a soul that can live eternally. The OT is about that spirit and soul.
Some people get so caught up in the literal Israel of the flesh that they are unable to see Israel of the spirit. They limit God.
Some people get so caught up in the literal Israel of the flesh that they are unable to see Israel of the spirit. They limit God.
Generally when people say old testament or covenant, they are referring to the ten commandments only.
When someone says the old testament is obsolete, it causes confusion. Because one will ask, so are you saying that we can now kill or covet our neighbours posessions?
As we read through the new testament, we see the same commands as the ones listed in the ten commandment so how is it obsolete?
The law is obsolete in the sense that we now have a new version of the same old commandments. If someone has a written contract with someone which should last for a certain amount of time, when the period has ended, a new one has to be written even if it has the same info as the previous one. If changes are to be made to the contract before it is fulfilled, one cant just cross out words or add words. A new contract has to be written with the updated info. Same thing with God's command.
So God fulfilled the law or contract that He had with Israel, thus the contract came to an end. And using that same old contract as a foundation He instituted a new covenant. So yes, the old and the new are almost the same, but with amendment.
We are not comnanded to observe sabbath day, but we see that when we trust in God we enter the rest of God.
Jesus died for our sins, and all we need for salvation is to trust in Him, yet still He says dont use your freedom as excuse for badness.
In Old testament it says, dont be overly righteous or overly evil. The same sentiments are expressed in new testament when He says be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect, but He also says if anyone says he is without sin he is deceived.
So its less confusing not to think of the law as being obsolete, but to say it is amended. The amended law being the new one.
Paul says we must use the israelites as an example of what happens when we are disobedient. 1Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
God does not change, therefore the OT and the NT are similar, and some aspects of the OT can be used as inspiration in helping us to be obedient to the new covenant.
Jesus says to forgive, and when we read the story of Joseph and His brothers we see a powerful story of forgiveness.
Under the old covenant, if they did not obey God, they would get a severe punishment. But at this time it is a time of grace. Never the less, we are to obey God. But in doing the will of God, it is not to gain salvation, but we do the will of God because we are His children and we want to please Him.
When someone says the old testament is obsolete, it causes confusion. Because one will ask, so are you saying that we can now kill or covet our neighbours posessions?
As we read through the new testament, we see the same commands as the ones listed in the ten commandment so how is it obsolete?
The law is obsolete in the sense that we now have a new version of the same old commandments. If someone has a written contract with someone which should last for a certain amount of time, when the period has ended, a new one has to be written even if it has the same info as the previous one. If changes are to be made to the contract before it is fulfilled, one cant just cross out words or add words. A new contract has to be written with the updated info. Same thing with God's command.
So God fulfilled the law or contract that He had with Israel, thus the contract came to an end. And using that same old contract as a foundation He instituted a new covenant. So yes, the old and the new are almost the same, but with amendment.
We are not comnanded to observe sabbath day, but we see that when we trust in God we enter the rest of God.
Jesus died for our sins, and all we need for salvation is to trust in Him, yet still He says dont use your freedom as excuse for badness.
In Old testament it says, dont be overly righteous or overly evil. The same sentiments are expressed in new testament when He says be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect, but He also says if anyone says he is without sin he is deceived.
So its less confusing not to think of the law as being obsolete, but to say it is amended. The amended law being the new one.
Paul says we must use the israelites as an example of what happens when we are disobedient. 1Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
God does not change, therefore the OT and the NT are similar, and some aspects of the OT can be used as inspiration in helping us to be obedient to the new covenant.
Jesus says to forgive, and when we read the story of Joseph and His brothers we see a powerful story of forgiveness.
Under the old covenant, if they did not obey God, they would get a severe punishment. But at this time it is a time of grace. Never the less, we are to obey God. But in doing the will of God, it is not to gain salvation, but we do the will of God because we are His children and we want to please Him.
I so agree with all your interpretation of scripture, except please don't say that something given to us by our holy eternal God who speaks of eternal ways is "coming to an end". It is true lots of things in the old covenant are no more because they are obsolete, so your statement is true in a way, but it gives the wrong impression to say God ended something eternal God gave.
We are to look at these two covenants: the old one and the improved one, to see what in them is eternal and what in them is obsolete.
We are to look at these two covenants: the old one and the improved one, to see what in them is eternal and what in them is obsolete.
The same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament Is the same GOD that spoke the New Testament and since GOD doesn’t change why were there two covenant?Paul wrote that
Romans 7:5-25
King James Version
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:5-25
King James Version
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
This is it exactly. The eternal of the old covenant didn't end, it was written in stone. Circumcision wasn't explained as circumcision of the heart as it is explained via the new covenant--circumcision is of the heart and cutting foreskin a shadow. Cutting foreskin had a spiritual meaning we are to see, now. It set people apart. It was a sign of belong to the Lord.
John scolded those Jews who thought that cutting foreskin was all that was required, the spiritual meaning didn't matter to them. Rev. 2:9 know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Nothing of the old testament ended, we are to learn from it. But it is an eternal shadow and the new is better, the shadow is fulfilled. Not ended, but made perfect for our use.
John scolded those Jews who thought that cutting foreskin was all that was required, the spiritual meaning didn't matter to them. Rev. 2:9 know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Nothing of the old testament ended, we are to learn from it. But it is an eternal shadow and the new is better, the shadow is fulfilled. Not ended, but made perfect for our use.
Paul is speaking here in ways that are so very difficult to follow. It takes a thorough knowledge of all scripture to follow the truths Paul is expressing here. It requires that we grab mental fast hold of the spirit of the law that is good, holy, and eternal and the commandments like cutting foreskin and using animal sacrifice as a symbol of Christ that were shadows of the law.
Nothing of the OT has ended but as believers, we have died to that relationship and live unto the living God in a living relationship.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Rom 7:4)
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:19-20)
The law also ended as a means to attain a right standing before God (Justification). Although it never was an actual means, only that some treated it as a means to having a right standing before God.
Romans 3:20 (NASB) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28 (NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Galatians 2:16 (NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Galatians 3:11 (NASB) Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Galatians 3:24 (NASB) Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Galatians 5:4 (NASB) You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Rom 7:4)
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:19-20)
The law also ended as a means to attain a right standing before God (Justification). Although it never was an actual means, only that some treated it as a means to having a right standing before God.
Romans 3:20 (NASB) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28 (NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Galatians 2:16 (NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Galatians 3:11 (NASB) Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Galatians 3:24 (NASB) Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Galatians 5:4 (NASB) You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
-
1
- Show all
