The perennial Acts 2.38 confusion .

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TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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Yikes ,what translation is this ??
Romans 11

Easy-to-Read Version



God Has Not Forgotten His People
11 So I ask, “Did God force his people to leave him?” Of course not. I myself am an Israelite. I am from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born. And he did not force them to leave. Surely you know what the Scriptures say about Elijah. The Scriptures tell about Elijah praying to God against the people of Israel. He said, 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet still living, and they are trying to kill me now.”[a] 4 But what answer did God give to Elijah? God said, “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have never given worship to Baal.”[b]
5 It is the same now. God has chosen a few people by his grace. 6 And if he chose them by grace, then it is not what they have done that made them his people. If they could be made his people by what they did, his gift of grace would not really be a gift.
7 So this is what has happened: The people of Israel wanted God’s blessing, but they did not all get it. The people he chose did get his blessing, but the others became hard and refused to listen to him. 8 As the Scriptures say,
“God caused the people to fall asleep.”
“God closed their eyes so that they could not see,
and he closed their ears so that they could not hear.
This continues until now.”
9 And David says,
“Let those people be caught and trapped at their own feasts.
Let them fall and be punished.
10 Let their eyes be closed so that they cannot see.
And let them be troubled forever.”
11 So I ask: When the Jews fell, did that fall destroy them? No! But their mistake brought salvation to those who are not Jews. The purpose of this was to make the Jews jealous. 12 Their mistake brought rich blessings to the world. And what they lost brought rich blessings to the non-Jewish people. So surely the world will get much richer blessings when enough Jews become the kind of people God wants.
13 Now I am speaking to you people who are not Jews. I am an apostle to the non-Jewish people. So while I have that work, I will do the best I can. 14 I hope I can make my own people jealous. That way, maybe I can help some of them to be saved. 15 God turned away from the Jews. When that happened, he became friends with the other people in the world. So when he accepts the Jews, it will be like bringing people to life after death. 16 If the first piece of bread is offered to God, then the whole loaf is made holy. If the roots of a tree are holy, the tree’s branches are holy too.
17 It is as if some of the branches from an olive tree have been broken off, and the branch of a wild olive tree has been joined to that first tree. If you are not a Jew, you are the same as that wild branch, and you now share the strength and life of the first tree. 18 But don’t act as if you are better than those branches that were broken off. You have no reason to be proud of yourself, because you don’t give life to the root. The root gives life to you. 19 You might say, “Branches were broken off so that I could be joined to their tree.” 20 That is true. But those branches were broken off because they did not believe. And you continue to be part of the tree only because you believe. Don’t be proud, but be afraid. 21 If God did not let the natural branches of that tree stay, he will not let you stay if you stop believing.
22 So you see that God is kind, but he can also be very strict. He punishes those who stop following him. But he is kind to you, if you continue trusting in his kindness. If you don’t continue depending on him, you will be cut off from the tree. 23 And if the Jews will believe in God again, he will accept them back. He is able to put them back where they were. 24 It is not natural for a wild branch to become part of a good tree. But you non-Jewish people are like a branch cut from a wild olive tree. And you were joined to a good olive tree. But those Jews are like a branch that grew from the good tree. So surely they can be joined to their own tree again.
25 I want you to understand this secret truth, brothers and sisters. This truth will help you understand that you don’t know everything. The truth is this: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when enough non-Jewish people have come to God. 26 And that is how all Israel will be saved. The Scriptures say,
“The Savior will come from Zion;
he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
27 And I will make this agreement with those people
when I take away their sins.”
28 The Jews refuse to accept the Good News, so they are God’s enemies. This has happened to help you who are not Jews. But they are still God’s chosen people, and he loves them because of the promises he made to their ancestors. 29 God never changes his mind about the people he calls. He never decides to take back the blessings he has given them. 30 At one time you refused to obey God. But now you have received mercy, because the Jews refused to obey. 31 And now they are the ones who refuse to obey, because God showed mercy to you. But this happened so that they can also receive mercy from him. 32 All people have refused to obey God. And he has put them all together as people who don’t obey him so that he can show mercy to everyone.
Praise to God
33 Yes, God’s riches are very great! His wisdom and knowledge have no end! No one can explain what God decides. No one can understand his ways. 34 As the Scriptures say,
“Who can know what is on the Lord’s mind?
Who is able to give him advice?”
35 “Who has ever given God anything?
God owes nothing to anyone.”
36 Yes, God made all things. And everything continues through him and for him. To God be the glory forever! Amen.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,897
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67
Brighton, MI
Romans 11
Easy-to-Read Version
God Has Not Forgotten His People
11 So I ask, “Did God force his people to leave him?” Of course not. I myself am an Israelite. I am from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born. And he did not force them to leave. Surely you know what the Scriptures say about Elijah. The Scriptures tell about Elijah praying to God against the people of Israel. He said, 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet still living, and they are trying to kill me now.”[a] 4 But what answer did God give to Elijah? God said, “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have never given worship to Baal.”

5 It is the same now. God has chosen a few people by his grace. 6 And if he chose them by grace, then it is not what they have done that made them his people. If they could be made his people by what they did, his gift of grace would not really be a gift.

7 So this is what has happened: The people of Israel wanted God’s blessing, but they did not all get it. The people he chose did get his blessing, but the others became hard and refused to listen to him. 8 As the Scriptures say,

“God caused the people to fall asleep.”

“God closed their eyes so that they could not see,
and he closed their ears so that they could not hear.
This continues until now.”

9 And David says,

“Let those people be caught and trapped at their own feasts.
Let them fall and be punished.
10 Let their eyes be closed so that they cannot see.
And let them be troubled forever.”

11 So I ask: When the Jews fell, did that fall destroy them? No! But their mistake brought salvation to those who are not Jews. The purpose of this was to make the Jews jealous. 12 Their mistake brought rich blessings to the world. And what they lost brought rich blessings to the non-Jewish people. So surely the world will get much richer blessings when enough Jews become the kind of people God wants.

13 Now I am speaking to you people who are not Jews. I am an apostle to the non-Jewish people. So while I have that work, I will do the best I can. 14 I hope I can make my own people jealous. That way, maybe I can help some of them to be saved. 15 God turned away from the Jews. When that happened, he became friends with the other people in the world. So when he accepts the Jews, it will be like bringing people to life after death. 16 If the first piece of bread is offered to God, then the whole loaf is made holy. If the roots of a tree are holy, the tree’s branches are holy too.

17 It is as if some of the branches from an olive tree have been broken off, and the branch of a wild olive tree has been joined to that first tree. If you are not a Jew, you are the same as that wild branch, and you now share the strength and life of the first tree. 18 But don’t act as if you are better than those branches that were broken off. You have no reason to be proud of yourself, because you don’t give life to the root. The root gives life to you. 19 You might say, “Branches were broken off so that I could be joined to their tree.” 20 That is true. But those branches were broken off because they did not believe. And you continue to be part of the tree only because you believe. Don’t be proud, but be afraid. 21 If God did not let the natural branches of that tree stay, he will not let you stay if you stop believing.

22 So you see that God is kind, but he can also be very strict. He punishes those who stop following him. But he is kind to you, if you continue trusting in his kindness. If you don’t continue depending on him, you will be cut off from the tree. 23 And if the Jews will believe in God again, he will accept them back. He is able to put them back where they were. 24 It is not natural for a wild branch to become part of a good tree. But you non-Jewish people are like a branch cut from a wild olive tree. And you were joined to a good olive tree. But those Jews are like a branch that grew from the good tree. So surely they can be joined to their own tree again.

25 I want you to understand this secret truth, brothers and sisters. This truth will help you understand that you don’t know everything. The truth is this: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when enough non-Jewish people have come to God. 26 And that is how all Israel will be saved. The Scriptures say,

“The Savior will come from Zion;
he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
27 And I will make this agreement with those people
when I take away their sins.”

28 The Jews refuse to accept the Good News, so they are God’s enemies. This has happened to help you who are not Jews. But they are still God’s chosen people, and he loves them because of the promises he made to their ancestors. 29 God never changes his mind about the people he calls. He never decides to take back the blessings he has given them. 30 At one time you refused to obey God. But now you have received mercy, because the Jews refused to obey. 31 And now they are the ones who refuse to obey, because God showed mercy to you. But this happened so that they can also receive mercy from him. 32 All people have refused to obey God. And he has put them all together as people who don’t obey him so that he can show mercy to everyone.

Praise to God
33 Yes, God’s riches are very great! His wisdom and knowledge have no end! No one can explain what God decides. No one can understand his ways. 34 As the Scriptures say,

“Who can know what is on the Lord’s mind?
Who is able to give him advice?”

35 “Who has ever given God anything?
God owes nothing to anyone.”

36 Yes, God made all things. And everything continues through him and for him. To God be the glory forever! Amen.

Footnotes
Romans 11:3 Quote from 1 Kings 19:10, 14.
Romans 11:4 Quote from 1 Kings 19:18.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Since you need clarification:


Ezekiel 36

King James Version



36 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord:
2 Thus saith the Lord God; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:
3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:
4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;
5 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.
6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.
9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13 Thus saith the Lord God; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:
14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord God.
15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord God.
16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.
37 Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
1. I know this passage well. thank you

this is speaking of the HS my friend.

You do realize this do you not? Or do you think this is water baptism????
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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so the ritual replaced the literal?

Is this what you are saying?

In the law, the ritual cleansings all symbolised what God would do when his messiah came

the word that could save them the same message Jesus gave. That the son of man must be lifted up that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life
I disagree.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Then you reject Romans 4.

the fact is, Abraham believes god and was counted as righteous the moment God gave him his promise. Gen 15.

it was not a dual covenant lit was a one way covenant, God said I give you, I will, not if you do this I will, when he walked down the center of the covenant, he put Abraham to sleep. because Abraham could not fulfill the promise, not could he help God
As provided there was an obedience attached to God's covenant. It's recorded in the word of God:
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen 17:14
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
As provided there was an obedience attached to God's covenant. It's recorded in the word of God:
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen 17:14
Yet Abraham believed god and it was accounted to him as righteosuness

circumcision was the covenant of blessing in the land. Not eternal life,

The law taught the shedding of blood brought forgiveness. Not having some priest baptize us in water
 
S

SophieT

Guest
One does not have to believe in the Catholic concept of “baptismal regeneration” in order to acknowledge that there is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.

The Principle Involved
Perhaps it would be helpful if we would illustrate, by other cases in the Scriptures, the principle that is involved in this relationship.

The Case of Naaman
Naaman was an officer in the Syrian army, but he was woefully afflicted with the dreaded disease leprosy. The prophet Elisha bade him go “wash” in the Jordan river, promising that he would be “clean.” Finally, after some equivocation, the captain thus did, and his flesh was restored (2 Kgs. 5:14).

Certainly there was no merit in Jordan’s water, and there is no textual suggestion that Namaan was disposed to trust in the efficacy of the river; he simply came to a state of confidence in the prophet’s message. There was no “water healing” in this case. But who, thinking rationally, could deny that his restoration was dependent upon submission to the divine command?

The Man Born Blind
Jesus once encountered a man who had been blind since birth. The Lord spat upon the ground and made a clay potion, anointing the man’s eyes. He then commissioned the gentleman to: “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (Jn. 9:7). The man obeyed; he washed, and came away seeing.

Was there medicinal value in Siloam’s water? Of course not. Should the blind man have refused the Savior’s command? What if he had reasoned in this fashion: “If I go and wash, that will suggest that I am trusting in water. I do not believe in ‘washing restoration.’ I do not wish to ‘merit’ my sight. Therefore, I will simply trust in Jesus’ power to heal, and refrain from going to Siloam.” Just what would have been the result?

Perhaps the following chart will help to put things in focus with reference to the connection between baptism and salvation, and the order of their occurrence, in the scriptural plan.

The Biblical Order

Baptism
Salvation (Mk. 16:16)
Born of Water
Enter Kingdom (Jn. 3:5)
Baptism
Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)
Baptism
Washing (Acts 22:16)
Baptism
Death of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
Washed
Justified (1 Cor. 6:11)
Baptism
Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)
Baptism
Clothed With Christ (Gal. 3:27)
Washing of Water
Cleansed (Eph. 5:26)
Baptism
Working of God (Col. 2:12)
Washing of Regeneration
Saved (Tit. 3:5)
Baptism
Saved (1 Pet. 3:21)
Conclusion
Even when one has done precisely as the Lord commands, he has merited nothing; he has earned nothing. The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.

Those who speak in opposition to New Testament baptism, contradicting the sacred writings, will have a heavy judgment to bear.

I am answering your post out of sheer politeness :giggle:

isn't it convenient that you have turned this thread into another one of your teaching sessions on your interpretations of baptism and water

probably not what you wanted to hear. perhaps later I will advance a more fun and fact filled response to your musings
 
S

SophieT

Guest
One must ask themselves why such resistance to obeying the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Hummm. Probably has something to do with there being "...none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
uh...no one has said a jot or a tittle about refusing to be baptized

it's just blaring fibs again. you should stop

you know full well we are disagreeing with your theories on water cleansing from sin

 
S

SophieT

Guest
hey did you know that Hindus bathe in the river Ganges to WASH AWAY SIN?

they do not know about salvation through the blood of Christ
 
Jun 9, 2021
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MARRIAGE, so that "TWO become one," Correct? "of one ANOTHER"?
Sounds like TWO, to me, too. Never heard of "baptismal marriage" theology:

(1) water was around long Before "Baptism (IN{?} verse please) the Spirit"
Or: LONG Before this anyway!:

(2) Paul {who taught ONE BAPTISM "BY" The Spirit!} was "saved on the road
to Damascus" By God's GRACE And MERCY, The Spirit Identifying him as The
First "member" Of God's NEW {Joining of TWO!} Creation, The Body Of CHRIST!:

Into: "ONE New man" (Ephesians 2:15-16 KJB!) And:

(3) This ONE BAPTISM {Acts 9!} was LONG Before Paul's OTHER water
baptism, BY Ananias! (Acts 22:16 KJB!)

Conclusion: There is NO "chain action one of another," between these TWO!

Be Blessed!
It is like a Marriage in the sense you must be Baptized into the Spirit to be filled with the Holy Spirit and [I'm using a perfect definition I found here] When you get married, you have two people working towards a successful marriage (hopefully) and when we are water baptized, most ceremonies include a promise on the part of the congregation to pray for and build up the new believer in their your journey towards perfect union with Christ.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
One does not have to believe in the Catholic concept of “baptismal regeneration” in order to acknowledge that there is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.

The Principle Involved
Perhaps it would be helpful if we would illustrate, by other cases in the Scriptures, the principle that is involved in this relationship.

The Case of Naaman
Naaman was an officer in the Syrian army, but he was woefully afflicted with the dreaded disease leprosy. The prophet Elisha bade him go “wash” in the Jordan river, promising that he would be “clean.” Finally, after some equivocation, the captain thus did, and his flesh was restored (2 Kgs. 5:14).

Certainly there was no merit in Jordan’s water, and there is no textual suggestion that Namaan was disposed to trust in the efficacy of the river; he simply came to a state of confidence in the prophet’s message. There was no “water healing” in this case. But who, thinking rationally, could deny that his restoration was dependent upon submission to the divine command?

The Man Born Blind
Jesus once encountered a man who had been blind since birth. The Lord spat upon the ground and made a clay potion, anointing the man’s eyes. He then commissioned the gentleman to: “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (Jn. 9:7). The man obeyed; he washed, and came away seeing.

Was there medicinal value in Siloam’s water? Of course not. Should the blind man have refused the Savior’s command? What if he had reasoned in this fashion: “If I go and wash, that will suggest that I am trusting in water. I do not believe in ‘washing restoration.’ I do not wish to ‘merit’ my sight. Therefore, I will simply trust in Jesus’ power to heal, and refrain from going to Siloam.” Just what would have been the result?

Perhaps the following chart will help to put things in focus with reference to the connection between baptism and salvation, and the order of their occurrence, in the scriptural plan.

The Biblical Order

Baptism
Salvation (Mk. 16:16)
Born of Water
Enter Kingdom (Jn. 3:5)
Baptism
Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)
Baptism
Washing (Acts 22:16)
Baptism
Death of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
Washed
Justified (1 Cor. 6:11)
Baptism
Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)
Baptism
Clothed With Christ (Gal. 3:27)
Washing of Water
Cleansed (Eph. 5:26)
Baptism
Working of God (Col. 2:12)
Washing of Regeneration
Saved (Tit. 3:5)
Baptism
Saved (1 Pet. 3:21)
Conclusion
Even when one has done precisely as the Lord commands, he has merited nothing; he has earned nothing. The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.

Those who speak in opposition to New Testament baptism, contradicting the sacred writings, will have a heavy judgment to bear.

First of all Wansvic, you need to give credit to whatever site you copy/pasted this from. You obviously did not write the above even though you are persuaded by it. Those who plagiarize the words of others, may also have a heavy judgment to bear.

I mean honestly Wansvic, who are you trying to fool here? further, you insist on saying we are refusing to be baptized and that is a construct of your own desire to make it seem we are in disagreement with scripture, when in fact we are in disagreement of your interpretation of certain passages in scripture

Perhaps if you made an honest attempt at actually being honest, you would be more believable.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Jesus paid the penalty for sin through his death. The gospel is Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. We as individuals must obey the gospel in order to appropriate or apply that gospel to our lives individually. Peter specified how in Acts 2:38. This is done through repentance (death to sin), water baptism (burial), and receiving the Holy Ghost. (new life in Christ).

if we have accepted Christ as God's provision for the forgiveness of our sins, then, WE HAVE ALREADY OBEYED THE GOSPEL

that, is the starting point. however, your error, compounded over and over again by your personal beliefs, is that works are a part of God's grace

they simply are not
 
S

SophieT

Guest
God commanded obedience in connection with His covenant with Abraham. It was not faith alone that kept him in covenant with God:

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen 17:14
you just do not seem able to grasp the fact that it was Abraham's faith that God accounted to him as righteousness

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

so obviously FAITH ... BELIEF IN GOD ... that God looks upon and approves of, is what leads to obedience, but works do not save.

keep reading: Paul states the one who works, is UNDER OBLIGATION


therefore, I submit, that YOU are under obligation and not GRACE

you choose verses and create doctrine from them and fail to understand the WHOLE of scripture that does not say what you painfully twist it to say.

I'm not responding to you again but will retain the choice to still post in this thread. remain in your error as it seems you choose to do.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
One must ask themselves why such resistance to obeying the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Hummm. Probably has something to do with there being "...none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
OUTRAGEOUS LIE. no one resists water baptism.

done. from such turn away applies here IMO
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Yet Abraham believed god and it was accounted to him as righteosuness

circumcision was the covenant of blessing in the land. Not eternal life,

The law taught the shedding of blood brought forgiveness. Not having some priest baptize us in water
I think what is misunderstood is that walking in the steps of faith as Abraham did is in no way connected to the OT law. (See Romans 4:11-14 below)

Yes, Abraham believed God and his obedience confirmed that. Abraham's trust in God before and after circumcision show God's intent to make salvation available to both Jews and Gentiles on the merit of their believing God's instructions and being sealed upon obedience to same.

Abraham received circumcision as a sign, as a seal of the righteousness he had been credited with on the ground of the trust he had while he was still uncircumcised. This happened so that he could be the father of every uncircumcised person who trusts and thus has righteousness credited to him, 12 and at the same time be the father of every circumcised person who not only has had a b’rit-milah, but also follows in the footsteps of the trust which Avraham avinu had when he was still uncircumcised.
For the promise to Avraham and his seed that he would inherit the world did not come through legalism but through the righteousness that trust produces. Rom 4:11-14 CJB

In the NT a person trusts God's message that Jesus did in fact die as payment for the penalty of sin, was buried and resurrected. In addition they trust that what God conveyed through Peter on the Day of Pentecost was in fact true. If the NT believer would repent and be water baptized in Jesus' name they would have their personal sins remitted. And God promised to fill the NT believer with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-40)
 

Wansvic

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I am answering your post out of sheer politeness :giggle:

isn't it convenient that you have turned this thread into another one of your teaching sessions on your interpretations of baptism and water

probably not what you wanted to hear. perhaps later I will advance a more fun and fact filled response to your musings
Since the thread is about Acts 2:38 I thought comments were supposed to be in reference to that. Oh, silly me.