The perennial Acts 2.38 confusion .
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I disagree. Accepting something and obeying something are two different things.
Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached BEGINNING in Jerusalem. This message was first given on the Day of Pentecost by Peter. And if you will recall it was Peter who was given the KEYS of the kingdom by Jesus Himself. Jesus also said that unless a man is born of water and Spirit (keys) he cannot ENTER the kingdom.
Luke 24:46-47
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached BEGINNING in Jerusalem. This message was first given on the Day of Pentecost by Peter. And if you will recall it was Peter who was given the KEYS of the kingdom by Jesus Himself. Jesus also said that unless a man is born of water and Spirit (keys) he cannot ENTER the kingdom.
Luke 24:46-47
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Trust in and obedience to God's commands not associated with the OT law are in fact in line with Abraham's trust and obedience outlined in the scripture you reference. He was required to circumcise in obedience to God's command. NT believers are required to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in obedience to God's command. (See James 2)
E
I am with you until here.
Abraham was declared righteous on the moment he had faith in the very covenant in where he was told in him shall all nations (gentiles included) be blessed. via his seed.
since he believed. And god declaired him righteous at that point. God, in doing so. Knew his faith was real. and through this declared him righteous.
Many aspects of the covenant had nothing to do with the sign of the covenant between Abraham and his people who would come (Israel) In this was the sign of the covenant. It was done not to gain eternal life. But to mark himself as a part of the covenant between God and Israel. as ONLY Israel was given this command. (although I believe a gentile who wanted to be part of this covenant were required to be circumcised also) We know in Col 2. Paul made it clear it is not the circumcision by the hand of man that made anyone clean, But the one done by the hand of God. which happens through baptism performed by God (the one who raised him from the dead)
Yes. They would be a part of this eternal covenant given to all mankind the same way abraham did, by grace through faith
Here is where you run into problems
if we are saved by the same faith of Abraham, We are saved the way he did. We believe God and he credits to us righteousness. Paul shows this in romans 4. where he claims clearly if abraham was found by works (we know in Gal 3 circumcision was considered a work) then he had something to boast (take credit). And shares that it is the fact God does not imput sin that makes us righteous. Even david understood this. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin (psalms 32: 1-2) And as paul tells us in rom 5 how sin was not imputed to a persons account until the law was given. Until then the only thing that condemned a person was unbelief, in which they were dead in adam, until they repented and came to faith (like Noah and Abraham and others) Of course, like he also said, once the command came, Sin revived and I died. Its like you drive down the street at 70 miles an hour. yet there is no law about a speed limit. they can not charge a man for a sin. he broke no law. Once they make a law and post the speed limit at 35. If the man drives at 70 he can be charged for a crime, and must pay his debt
The law then was given, as Paul told us in gal 3. To bring us to christ.
the moral law as God called the minister of death written on stone, is what brings us to our knees with knowledge of sin and our guilt
the sacrificial law showed us what MUST be done to be atoned or repay that debt so we could be set free or justified (redeemed) of that debt.
It is that which saved us. that is what saved Abraham as God looked forward. as the scripture says, he passed over the sins previously committed.
Abraham was not saved by Baptism in water. Since God said we would be saved as he was. We can not be saved by baptism. When you add that WORK to the gospel. you in effect teach a different gospel.
Water baptism is to the church was Circumcision was to Israel. A sign of what God does to each of us when we come to him in faith. It is not the circumcision or baptism done by the hand of man, But by the hand of God
Abraham was declared righteous on the moment he had faith in the very covenant in where he was told in him shall all nations (gentiles included) be blessed. via his seed.
since he believed. And god declaired him righteous at that point. God, in doing so. Knew his faith was real. and through this declared him righteous.
Many aspects of the covenant had nothing to do with the sign of the covenant between Abraham and his people who would come (Israel) In this was the sign of the covenant. It was done not to gain eternal life. But to mark himself as a part of the covenant between God and Israel. as ONLY Israel was given this command. (although I believe a gentile who wanted to be part of this covenant were required to be circumcised also) We know in Col 2. Paul made it clear it is not the circumcision by the hand of man that made anyone clean, But the one done by the hand of God. which happens through baptism performed by God (the one who raised him from the dead)
Yes. They would be a part of this eternal covenant given to all mankind the same way abraham did, by grace through faith
Here is where you run into problems
if we are saved by the same faith of Abraham, We are saved the way he did. We believe God and he credits to us righteousness. Paul shows this in romans 4. where he claims clearly if abraham was found by works (we know in Gal 3 circumcision was considered a work) then he had something to boast (take credit). And shares that it is the fact God does not imput sin that makes us righteous. Even david understood this. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin (psalms 32: 1-2) And as paul tells us in rom 5 how sin was not imputed to a persons account until the law was given. Until then the only thing that condemned a person was unbelief, in which they were dead in adam, until they repented and came to faith (like Noah and Abraham and others) Of course, like he also said, once the command came, Sin revived and I died. Its like you drive down the street at 70 miles an hour. yet there is no law about a speed limit. they can not charge a man for a sin. he broke no law. Once they make a law and post the speed limit at 35. If the man drives at 70 he can be charged for a crime, and must pay his debt
The law then was given, as Paul told us in gal 3. To bring us to christ.
the moral law as God called the minister of death written on stone, is what brings us to our knees with knowledge of sin and our guilt
the sacrificial law showed us what MUST be done to be atoned or repay that debt so we could be set free or justified (redeemed) of that debt.
It is that which saved us. that is what saved Abraham as God looked forward. as the scripture says, he passed over the sins previously committed.
Abraham was not saved by Baptism in water. Since God said we would be saved as he was. We can not be saved by baptism. When you add that WORK to the gospel. you in effect teach a different gospel.
Water baptism is to the church was Circumcision was to Israel. A sign of what God does to each of us when we come to him in faith. It is not the circumcision or baptism done by the hand of man, But by the hand of God
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E
Would you please consider commenting on what Peter said about withstanding God in Acts 10; https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/withstand-god-certainly-not.199739/#post-4586616
I think this will work.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/withstand-god-certainly-not.199739
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/withstand-god-certainly-not.199739
Precious friend, thanks for your definition. However, "baptized into the Spirit"
is not in God's Holy Word. Please Be Blessed In This Summary:
Prophecy/Law:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
c) Is water + With The Spirit = TWO, "married into one? Under,
Prophecy/Law
Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:
Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
OR, EQUALS TWO?
Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for us Today," Under
HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's Confusion into oblivion!?
FULL "studies" are:
Previous dispensations = 12 baptisms
Today's Dispensation Of GRACE: ONE Baptism
Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ↑
♫
is not in God's Holy Word. Please Be Blessed In This Summary:
Prophecy/Law:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
c) Is water + With The Spirit = TWO, "married into one? Under,
Prophecy/Law
Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:
Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE
OR, EQUALS TWO?
Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for us Today," Under
HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's Confusion into oblivion!?
FULL "studies" are:
Previous dispensations = 12 baptisms
Today's Dispensation Of GRACE: ONE Baptism
Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ↑
♫
E
I am confused as to how Peter witnessing the gentiles being baptized by the spirit as he was has anything to do with water baptism
As always the obedience of water baptism followed the baptism of God. So it all fits.
Peter had a hard
Time believing gentiles could
Be saved too. So when he saw it. He said who is he to withstand (hinder or prevent) God from doing what God wanted
As always the obedience of water baptism followed the baptism of God. So it all fits.
Peter had a hard
Time believing gentiles could
Be saved too. So when he saw it. He said who is he to withstand (hinder or prevent) God from doing what God wanted
S
Is Baptism necessary for salvation? no
First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.).
If water baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon's portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to baptism, but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3?
Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.
source: it should be noted that if a person copy/pastes an article, credit should be given or, as commonly seen, the source should be linked to.
PLAGERISM just a friendly reminder in case people do not know, do not insert articles not of your own creation and give no credit to the actual author.
Most already know that plagiarism is an ethical infraction and a violation of your school or workplace’s honor code. If you’re caught plagiarizing, you can be punished by your school, fired from your job, or even have your career ruined.
But what about legal consequences? Is it possible for a plagiarist to get sued or, even worse, face criminal action? The answer is that it depends on the nature of the plagiarism.
The most obvious way that a plagiarism can become a legal issue is copyright infringement.
Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted to the creator of an original work. Plagiarism, often times, violates those rights both by copying the work without permission and distributing it.
First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.).
If water baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon's portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to baptism, but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn't Peter say so in Acts 3?
Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.
source: it should be noted that if a person copy/pastes an article, credit should be given or, as commonly seen, the source should be linked to.
PLAGERISM just a friendly reminder in case people do not know, do not insert articles not of your own creation and give no credit to the actual author.
Most already know that plagiarism is an ethical infraction and a violation of your school or workplace’s honor code. If you’re caught plagiarizing, you can be punished by your school, fired from your job, or even have your career ruined.
But what about legal consequences? Is it possible for a plagiarist to get sued or, even worse, face criminal action? The answer is that it depends on the nature of the plagiarism.
The most obvious way that a plagiarism can become a legal issue is copyright infringement.
Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted to the creator of an original work. Plagiarism, often times, violates those rights both by copying the work without permission and distributing it.
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I think you missed an important point. Peter stated he could not withstand God AFTER seeing the Holy Ghost poured out on the Gentiles. The comment would naturally relate to what Peter did after the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost. After that occurred, Peter questioned the others with him. Can we forbid these men water baptism that have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? In relating this information to the Jewish leaders they agreed that Peter did the right thing. Because clearly God had granted the Gentiles repentance unto life. In light of this entire episode one can conclude that water baptism was a necessary component of the Gentiles receiving God's repentance unto life.
Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
S
Following is a particularly pertinent refutation to those who insist baptism is part of salvation (same source as post 313)
The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them
The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them
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You missed the point
Peter did not say he could not withstand God. He asked the question. Who was I that I could withstand God.
withstand greek Koylo - to hinder, to prevent, to forbid.
Peter literally said who am I that I should hinder God from saving the gentiles.
A deeper study would help you in areas such as these.
Peter did not say he could not withstand God. He asked the question. Who was I that I could withstand God.
withstand greek Koylo - to hinder, to prevent, to forbid.
Peter literally said who am I that I should hinder God from saving the gentiles.
A deeper study would help you in areas such as these.
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