The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Christ applies redemption as well cont

Now it has been shown from scripture that Christ as Mediator, plays a Threefold role in the salvation He accomplished by and through His death of the cross, and present sitting on His Throne of Glory. He was the Priest that offered Himself, shed His blood for the sins of all His People, jew or gentile, and He is the Prophet that makes Known this salvation to His People that He died for, and finally, He is the Great King that applies and give effect to this salvation to all that He died. He applies His Salvation by sending the work of the Spirit unto each one He died for, that He [The Holy Spirit] will quicken them with New Life, that He would work in them to both will and to do of His good pleasure.

This is why it is immediately said upon His ascension to the Throne, that He received from the Father, as a reward for His cross work] the Holy Ghost Acts 2:33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The Holy Ghost is the promise given to Christ that He may shed forth upon all His seed.

This is spoken of in Isa 44:1-3

1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Also alluding to this at the ascension of Christ and He having received in order to give gifts to men is Eph 4:8-11

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The Holy Spirit embodies all the gifts needed for the completion and application of Christ redeeming work, and this is as King, having conquered, that He sends Him [The Holy Spirit] forth. It is the Holy Spirit whom Christ sheds or pours forth that regenerates and renews all those Christ died for, this is taught here Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Note, the word gifts in Eph 4:8 is the greek word doma, and its the same word used for gifts in Lk 11:13

when speaking of the giving of the Holy Spirit :

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

And thats what King Jesus applies or sheds forth to His redeemed Church !

All the Mediatorial Offices of Christ are essential, not one of them can be neglected. The Office of King can be supposed to supersede that of Prophet and Priest, as it could be supposed that Prophet and Priest could supersede that of King, for it would be meaningless to speak of applying what has not been procured or purchased, but even more senseless to speak of procuring or purchasing what would not be applied, by the Purchaser.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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The greek word is no problem,
Well, good to know that you allow God to use words in Scripture as He sees fit.




brightfame52 said:
its apparent you dont understand its usage in its various context its found, thats on your lack of study !
please explain the usage of the Greek word lambánō as used in Romans 5:11, since (according to you) "its apparent [ I ] dont understand its usage in its various context its found" due to my "lack of study !"

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received [Greek lambánō] the atonement.


2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.


According to Romans 5:11, the receiver of the reconciliation is to "actively lay hold of to take or receive" ... the receiver of the reconciliation is to "lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered)".



 
Mar 23, 2016
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You made the statement that no one had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until after Pentecost, and Isaiah 63:11 plainly states that Moses was born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I believe Holy Spirit worked in believers under OC. I also believe that after Day of Pentecost, there was a change.

Let's go through some Scripture and see if what we have in our day and time (after Day of Pentecost) is the same as what was available prior to Day of Pentecost:

In Numbers 11 (and I'd recommend you read the full chapter), we read that God took of the spirit which was upon Moses and put it on 70 of the elders of the children of Israel:

Numbers 11:16-17 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Is that how Holy Spirit is received in our day and time when a person is born again?


In Psalm 51, David prayed God to not remove Holy Spirit from him:

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Do you now claim that God takes away the Holy Spirit from the born again believer?


In John 16, Jesus told His disciples that the Comforter (the Holy Spirit - John 14:26) could not come unless/until Jesus went away:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


In Acts 1, Jesus told His disciples to remain in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Father:

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.


In Hebrews 11, God tells us that wonderful men and women of faith who lived prior to Day of Pentecost did not receive the promise:

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise




ForestGreenCook said:
What you provided is that all of the old testament saints only had the Spirit of God upon them, and not within them. This makes you as disregarding Isaiah 63:11 as being a false statement.
I do not disregard Isaiah 63:11 (Post #162). Go through the Scriptures I provided above in this post.

God does not take of the Holy Spirit upon a believer to place upon others as He did with Moses and the 70 elders.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ lie to His disciples when He told them Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you (John 16:7)?

Each born again believer is born again of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23) ... a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor 5:17) ... sealed unto the day of redemption (Eph 1:13-14).

In our day and time, do you pray (as David did) "take not thy holy spirit from me"?




ForestGreenCook said:
God's Spirit is upon us giving us the direction he wants to guide us in. This applies to the old testament saints as well as the new testament ones. God does not guide any of the non-elect and leaves them to their own destruction by the freedom he gave to all of us to choose how we want to live our lives as we live here on earth.
Unraveling the twisted logic of this statement is a task for God. Please pray to God "by the freedom he gave to [ you ] to choose" that He will reveal to you the truth of His Holy Word so that you put aside your nonsense and learn what it is that He has so graciously provided.



Ephesians 4:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ



 

brightfame52

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It canceled our legal liability to the Law of God !

Folks, at the Great White Throne, those who are going to hell to perish for their sins, is because of their sins against God's Law, for the strength of sin is the Law 1 Cor 15:56

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul here teaches that Christ by His Cross, has canceled His People's legal liability [God's Law] having erased the written code, with its regulations, that were against us, opposed to us, He took them away [Jn 1:29] nailing it to His Cross.53

Now any teaching that states that in any way, that those whom Christ died for, that is His cross work on their behalf, that if any of them are legally condemned for their sins, that's a false teaching and opposes the work of Christ. Those who in light of such a scripture as this one Col 2:14, still believe that those whom Christ died for are still at any time in their lives condemned by God for their sins in the flesh, they are rejecting the clear implications of the Saving Work and Accomplishment of Christ, these will therefore by their profession become enemies to the cause of Christ.
 

brightfame52

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Well, good to know that you allow God to use words in Scripture as He sees fit.





please explain the usage of the Greek word lambánō as used in Romans 5:11, since (according to you) "its apparent [ I ] dont understand its usage in its various context its found" due to my "lack of study !"

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received [Greek lambánō] the atonement.


2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.


According to Romans 5:11, the receiver of the reconciliation is to "actively lay hold of to take or receive" ... the receiver of the reconciliation is to "lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered)".
Im not explaining nothing to you, you should have done your study, its on you for using a word you dont understand ! Besides every time explain something to you, its rejected, just look at all the posts of mine you oppose !
 
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Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.
The atonement covers the sins of anyone that follows, walks with, and puts their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we have Christ atonement covering us, God sees not us but Christ's righteousness covering us. The result: we are judged not guilty by reason of Christ's atonement. Amen. Hallelujah.
 
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Im not explaining nothing to you, you should have done your study, its on you for using a word you dont understand !
I understand the word:

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

received = the Greek word lambánō

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.


Even as you claim I "dont understand its usage in its various context its found", you have provided no "various context" in which the word lambánō does not mean "actively lay hold of to take or receive" ... "to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered)" ... lambánō "emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver".


I will stick with Scripture and do as God instructs.




brightfame52 said:
Besides every time explain something to you, its rejected, just look at all the posts of mine you oppose !
I do not oppose Scripture. Get "all the posts of [yours]" in line with Scripture. Leave your dogma behind.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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at the Great White Throne, those who are going to hell to perish for their sins, is because of their sins against God's Law
They "perish for their sins" ???


They don't perish because they are not "elect" ???
 

brightfame52

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The atonement covers the sins of anyone that follows, walks with, and puts their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we have Christ atonement covering us, God sees not us but Christ's righteousness covering us. The result: we are judged not guilty by reason of Christ's atonement. Amen. Hallelujah.
Thats error. The atonement is for only those who are saved by it.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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I understand the word:

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

received = the Greek word lambánō

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.


Even as you claim I "dont understand its usage in its various context its found", you have provided no "various context" in which the word lambánō does not mean "actively lay hold of to take or receive" ... "to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered)" ... lambánō "emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver".

I will stick with Scripture and do as God instructs.





I do not oppose Scripture. Get "all the posts of [yours]" in line with Scripture. Leave your dogma behind.
No you dont understand the word !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Those who are not elect do perish in their sins.
brightfame52

on the one hand you claim "at the Great White Throne, those who are going to hell to perish for their sins, is because of their sins against God's Law"

on the other hand you claim that the elect are chosen by God from before the foundation of the world (iow the non elect are not chosen by God from before the foundation of the world).


So do they go to hell because they sin ... or do they go to hell because they are not chosen by God from before the foundation of the world?



 
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Thats error. The atonement is for only those who are saved by it.
Ahh, that is what I said when I wrote: "The atonement covers the sins of anyone that follows, walks with, and puts their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ." Anyone who does that is saved.
 

brightfame52

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Ahh, that is what I said when I wrote: "The atonement covers the sins of anyone that follows, walks with, and puts their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ." Anyone who does that is saved.
No its not the same as what you are saying, nowhere close !
 

brightfame52

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Heb 5:9 Its a Saving Death

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect[Through His Death], he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

If we are obeying Christ, it is because He was the Author or source of our Salvation. That is obedience to the Faith is an and effect and fruit of His redeeming death Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [or obedient].

Ps 22:3054

30 A seed shall serve[be obedient to] him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation [see 1Pet 2:9a].

9 But ye are a chosen generation,

Many have corrupted Heb 5:9 and turned it into a conditional saving, as to say if one obeys Christ then Christ will save them, but its actually the opposite, If Christ has saved us by the merits of His death, then obedience to Him will be effected..

So those not obeying Christ and His Gospel, then there really is no evidence or fruit that He died for them.
 

brightfame52

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Oh? Instead of simply disagreeing with me, please explain what you mean?
Answer this question and it can clear it up, do you believe Christ died for anyone who will die in unbelief and in their sins ? Yes or No
 
Apr 12, 2021
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Answer this question and it can clear it up, do you believe Christ died for anyone who will die in unbelief and in their sins ? Yes or No
Once again, The atonement covers the sins of anyone that follows, walks with, and puts their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Jesus said "Follow me."

Jesus said "Repent and believe."

Jesus said "Abide in me and I will abide in you."

Anyone who follows, walks with, puts their faith trust and rest in Jesus has repented and believed, is in Christ and Christ is in them. They are indeed saved by the atonement.