Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

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Jun 30, 2021
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John 17:20-26 is very important because it gives Jesus' motivation for teaching
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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My drive is towards the core truth, the purpose for their writing...

I hold this in high regard.
It may be a language thing, but the clarity of most of your posts is like a muddy window pane.
 
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22 is most important:

That they may be one, even as we are one
 
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It may be a language thing, but the clarity of most of your posts is like a muddy window pane.
Ask more questions instead of arrogantly making it my fault my words go over your head
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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John 17:20-26 is very important because it gives Jesus' motivation for teaching
Claiming unity in Jesus name is not enough, one must also be born again, or they will be burned with the tares…

Matthew 13:30 KJV
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Ask more questions instead of arrogantly making it my fault my words go over your head
cherry picking verses isn't fruitful. We are living in the time He spoke of in John 16 where Holy Spirit guides, speaks and shows all truth.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
You are inferring that divorce is an ongoing thing. It is not. Yes it is against God's word, but, God forgives sin. IN the topic discussion world the sin is practiced...ongoing....there is a BIG difference. If one divorced every day....3, 4 times a week, etc. Then there would be some comparison. However, that is not the case.

It can be on ongoing thing, yes. As I said, I know preachers that have been married more than once, even though the Bible says God hates divorce, and remarriage has also become acceptable where once it was considered sin. I'm not avocating for either, I'm asking if the church is being hypocritical on this subject.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,803
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John 17:20-26 is very important because it gives Jesus' motivation for teaching
His "motivation" was obedience, "I only do what I see the Father do", and elsewhere "I only say what I hear the Father say".
That is just one small clean swipe on the muddy window pane .
His life was the model given for us of how we are to live.
 
Jun 30, 2021
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Claiming unity in Jesus name is not enough, one must also be born again, or they will be burned with the tares…

Matthew 13:30 KJV
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
I have never really understood what people mean by born again...

They mostly seem to reject theosis, so I'm confused
 
Jun 30, 2021
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His "motivation" was obedience, "I only do what I see the Father do", and elsewhere "I only say what I hear the Father say".
That is just one small clean swipe on the muddy window pane .
His life was the model given for us of how we are to live.
The verses are him praying for us...
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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I wasn't even attempting to quote scripture.....

These are basic human truths that you shouldn't need a Bible to be able to understand.
What you posted intentionally replaces the text of 1 Corinthians 13:4-8. It starts out with the famous first two lines from v. 4, then goes off into human philosophy. Maybe you can fool someone a little more naive but I know exactly what you're up to.
 
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I certainly think John 14:10 is awesome too, for it gives the state of one in the Spirit

Not my will but thou will be done

Hebrews 5:7 even Jesus surrendered
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
While some churches may be swapping conditional love for unconditional, The majority isn't the case. Some people can't distinguish between unconditional love & unconditional trust. There should never be unconditional trust in the church, with exception to the Godhead.

All may come to church, but not all are trusted to do as they say; for many say, but don't do.

What you don't understand is that the real manipulation is from the world that infiltrates the church to change its belief system & eventually its by-laws to take it over.

Just like the baker who was sued for not selling a wedding cake to a homosexual couple, the church has to be on constant watch for those who would destroy its reputation, painting the church as too rigid & one-sided, when in fact they are to be spiritually conservative & unbending in their standards of holiness.

Sowing sympathy for sinners who refuse to repent isn't unconditional love. That's just the sin of compromise trying to get its ugly foot in the door of the church.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I have never really understood what people mean by born again...

They mostly seem to reject theosis, so I'm confused
Born again is tied to believing in Christ's death and resurrection for our salvation and results in being given a new nature desirous of God, it is freely given upon faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. Here are a few passages that may help.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17 (NASB) Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.


John 3:3-7 (NASB) Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Here is where it ties into His death and resurrection...

John 3:14-15 (NASB) "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

Here is where it is promised long ago...

Jeremiah 31:33-34 (NASB) "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Misc...

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
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not an honest question, a mistaken supposition.
You have suggested you are sleepy because I have said Jesus asking for what he wants for his sacrifice is his motivation...

What you replied with is a suggestion about this oneness... but you find that out when it hapoens so it is less important on the way