50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[Absolutely]

https://2028end.com - Not pre-trib though.

Rev 14, no matter what, has you placing the dead in christ rising after the living who are gathered in rev 14 DURING THE TRIB.

REV 14 is so decisive in a final postrib rapture coffin nail, none of you has ANY HONEST STANDING.

Rev 14, is the arena where all your mightiest craftiness and reframing dies with their ancient deception of mans ideas.

You can not reconcile rev 14 against 1 thes 4.

But we can.
No reframe needed

 

[Absolutely]

How can you tell a Christian he will miss the rapture? Regardless of it's timing (post or pre tribulational)?

Over and over that is taught. Some worthy....some not.

While you operate in darby land, others are digging in the word

 

[Absolutely]

Great question. The short answer is that he has no authority to make such a charge against me or anyone else. However, that doesn't keep him from repeatedly doing it. I've noticed in pre-trib circles there's a common belief that if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture then you miss it. (I've been told this several times by several different pre-tribbers)

The truth is, though, that there's no Biblical support for that belief.

I believe that all of us, maybe the pre-tribbers especially, need to be vigilant about what doctrines we take in and digest.

take it up with Jesus.

He said worthy vs unworthy is indeed the game changer.

The bible refutes your statement

 

[Runningman]

take it up with Jesus.

He said worthy vs unworthy is indeed the game changer.

The bible refutes your statement

You don't get to take the words of Jesus out of context and apply them to whatever fits your fancy. He would rebuke you for that.

Where is a verse that even hints at suggesting that if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture then you go through the great trib?

 

[BenjaminN]

the postrib rapture (fearmongering) was invented by your infallable church fathers while trying to figure out why israel is scattered and their nation destroyed.

Your entire deal os based on deception

Built on man, and deception.

Most were amil

Is that also what we all need to believe?

All I know is that the churchfathers was not part of the great apostacy, that would have come after them...

 

[BenjaminN]

We have verses
You do not.

My challenge stands.
Post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

Nobody ever has.

Please explain this verse in plain English to me please:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Absolutely]

Please explain this verse in plain English to me please:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Without a doubt some gathering in heaven.
Do you think it is Jesus on a cloud with a sickle....in rev 14?

 

[Absolutely]

All I know is that the churchfathers was not part of the great apostacy, that would have come after them...

When has there not been great apostacy?

 

[BenjaminN]

Rev 14, no matter what, has you placing the dead in christ rising after the living who are gathered in rev 14 DURING THE TRIB.

REV 14 is so decisive in a final postrib rapture coffin nail, none of you has ANY HONEST STANDING.

Rev 14, is the arena where all your mightiest craftiness and reframing dies with their ancient deception of mans ideas.

You can not reconcile rev 14 against 1 thes 4.

But we can.
No reframe needed

After the tribulation, after the rapture and return of Christ on the clouds:

Revelation 14 (NKJV)

16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

 

[BenjaminN]

Over and over that is taught. Some worthy....some not.

While you operate in darby land, others are digging in the word

It is contrarian for a Christian to miss the rapture (whenever it happens)!

 

[VCO]

Please explain this verse in plain English to me please:




ISRAEL IS GATHERED, at the end of JACOB's TROUBLE. We are CAUGHT UP to meat HIM in the Clouds 7 years earlier, to return to heaven with HIM for the Wedding of the LAMB.


1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[BenjaminN]

take it up with Jesus.

He said worthy vs unworthy is indeed the game changer.

The bible refutes your statement

There is no such thing as a non worthy Christian, you are either a Christian or a non-Christian. You either believe Jesus died for your sins or you do not.

A Christian can not miss the rapture (regardless of its timing).

 

[BenjaminN]

Without a doubt some gathering in heaven.

Please explain Matthew 24:31 in plain English.

Do you think it is Jesus on a cloud with a sickle....in rev 14?

Yes, "He" with capital "H".

Revelation 14 (NKJV)

16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

 

[BenjaminN]

When has there not been great apostacy?

Like the great tribulation, there will only be / is only one great apostacy, which precedes or accompanies the great tribulation.

 

[BenjaminN]

Are you saying the great tribulation is called Jacob's trouble, and Israel is gathered after that into the clouds? Are you saying only Israel / Jacob (with his trouble) goes through the great tribulation?

 

[Absolutely]

There is no such thing as a non worthy Christian, you are either a Christian or a non-Christian. You either believe Jesus died for your sins or you do not.

A Christian can not miss the rapture (regardless of its timing).

this is beyond false.
It is so basic a babe in christ with a bible should know better.

Jesus said " pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world..."
The 5 foolish virgins were christians but not worthy.

All through the 7 letters of rev. Jesus points to worthy as the basis for recieving promises vs judgement ( UNWORTHY OF BLESSING/REWARD )TO BELIEVERS.

 

[BenjaminN]

this is beyond false.
It is so basic a babe in christ with a bible should know better.

Jesus said " pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world..."
The 5 foolish virgins were christians but not worthy.

All through the 7 letters of rev. Jesus points to worthy as the basis for recieving promises vs judgement ( UNWORTHY OF BLESSING/REWARD )TO BELIEVERS.

For sure a Christian can lose his faith, and no longer be a Christian:

You are conflating two whole separate issues (pray that you may have strength to go through the tribulation is my interpretation of the one)...

The other:

The five foolish virgins were not Christians anymore, they lost their faith. Oil in the lamps are faith. A Christian can depart from the faith. However how can a Christian waiting for a post trib rapture not have faith when it happens for some reason whatsoever pretrib?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

For sure a Christian can lose his faith, and no longer be a Christian:
.... A Christian can depart from the faith.

Precious friend, God And ALL Of HIS Plain Scriptures Disagree:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

Please be enriched, encouraged, And edified!

 

[BenjaminN]

For sure a Christian can lose his faith, and no longer be a Christian:

You are conflating two whole separate issues (pray that you may have strength to go through the tribulation is my interpretation of the one)...

The other:

The five foolish virgins were not Christians anymore, they lost their faith. Oil in the lamps are faith. A Christian can depart from the faith. However how can a Christian waiting for a post trib rapture not have faith when it happens for some reason whatsoever pretrib?

Precious friend, God And ALL Of HIS Plain Scriptures Disagree:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

Please be enriched, encouraged, And edified!

A Christian in name...

Matthew 13 (NKJV)

20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

 

[Absolutely]

For sure a Christian can lose his faith, and no longer be a Christian:

You are conflating two whole separate issues (pray that you may have strength to go through the tribulation is my interpretation of the one)...

The other:

The five foolish virgins were not Christians anymore, they lost their faith. Oil in the lamps are faith. A Christian can depart from the faith. However how can a Christian waiting for a post trib rapture not have faith when it happens for some reason whatsoever pretrib?

Oil is a type of the Holy Spirit.
they asked the wise for oil.
The Holy Spirit in acts was imparted through another believer via laying on of hands.

The wise refused.

you are confused if you do not understand that Jesus invoked the "worthy" dimension.
It is solid bible.....if fact, what ,pray tell, do you think the bema seat rewards are???? just abstract crowns, or actual rewards for actually being worthy.

you are either being obtuse or you really are that ignorant of basic bible truths.