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Now that I've said that, I'd like to participate in the discussion just a bit myself. 
I suppose believing in god could give someone a reason to act better, although I personally believe that if someone is kind and charitable, they'd be that way regardless of their religious belief, I think they have a good heart. But I would also say that a belief in religion can cause decent people to do terrible things. There's definitely two sides to this coin. If you look at all the women murdered by Sharia law in Islamic nations, or the "witches" in Africa that are still being burned because the Bible says not to allow them to live, or the events of September 11, 2001... You can see where believing could be negative. Of course I realize this is a minority I'm speaking about, and the majority of you certainly wouldn't support these things, I also believe atheists who would treat Christians disrespectfully are a minority in the same sense.
I suppose believing in god could give someone a reason to act better, although I personally believe that if someone is kind and charitable, they'd be that way regardless of their religious belief, I think they have a good heart. But I would also say that a belief in religion can cause decent people to do terrible things. There's definitely two sides to this coin. If you look at all the women murdered by Sharia law in Islamic nations, or the "witches" in Africa that are still being burned because the Bible says not to allow them to live, or the events of September 11, 2001... You can see where believing could be negative. Of course I realize this is a minority I'm speaking about, and the majority of you certainly wouldn't support these things, I also believe atheists who would treat Christians disrespectfully are a minority in the same sense.
I think he's referring to the rise in "New-Atheism" or "Militant Atheism" that we've seen in the past 20 years. Which has produced people like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins who devote most of their time to combating religion at every turn. What I call "Old Atheism" is people like my friend and you who just go about their lives, and only mention their Atheism if it comes up in a conversation or you're asked about it.
I can share my personal perspective on some of the questions/implications risen here...
Well, Christians don't all hold the same beliefs, there are lots of controversial issues within the faith and even outside of it with politics and whatnot. People argue about those things on this forum all the time. I have no interest in "converting people to atheism" that would be ridiculous However, I would like to promote open-mindedness. I'm speaking of issues that have little to do with "does god exist?" and more to do with "how should we treat homosexuals?" or "how should we treat non-believers?" or "should I believe in psychiatry or not?" things like that. Issues that actually have an effect on everyone's lives.
Also, I'm shallow too, I like using the chat rooms for conversation completely irrelevant to anything regarding religion, make friends and whatnot.
I don't know any atheists who claim humans as gods... It sounds like that would be all semantics though. I don't believe in anything supernatural, and most atheists don't. But humans are just humans in my view, beautiful sometimes and ugly other times, but overall I love us
Hm, well the only thing that seems to have in common with a religion is time dedication. I don't think "new atheism" is a religion still, I certainly wouldn't dedicate my career to such a pursuit (I love where I'm going too much,) but I wouldn't call it a religion. To shed a bit of light on new-atheism vs. old-atheism. I think the new-atheists are more angered at the atrocities inspired by religion, some of which I mentioned earlier, so they see it as worthwhile to do what they do. Personally I think their approach is a bit off, trying to remove someone's religious faith is next to impossible, if someone is going to stop believing, they're going to do it themselves, in fact trying to attack the religious basis for their beliefs just shuts people down, it's counter-intuitive. So I like to be "anti-homophobia/pro-equality", "anti-violence/pro-peace", "anti-theocracy/pro-constitutional democracy", because if I decide to be "anti-god&faith/pro-atheism" I'm going to get nothing done anyways, and there's no need for people to abandon god to be awesome people. So I speak for and argue for those other values, I'm not trying to destroy anyone's faith in god.
BUT I would like the add... "Militant atheism" is some guys who would never encourage violence of any kind, writing books and participating in debates while occasionally being rude. I don't see this as all that bad when "Militant Islam" and "Militant Christianity" have example after example of horrid acts of violence and murder. So even if you consider atheism a religion... It's hard to say it's worse than the others.
I can't see why any athiest would come to a Christian chat site if they were not obviously seeking the Lord or looking for answers. I definately can't see any athiest trying to debate with or convert Christians with their beliefs or unbeliefs on a site full of devoted Christians. We just got to show them the love of the LORD and let God do all the work in speaking to their heart
However, I would like to promote open-mindedness. I'm speaking of issues that have little to do with "does god exist?" and more to do with "how should we treat homosexuals?" or "how should we treat non-believers?" or "should I believe in psychiatry or not?" things like that. Issues that actually have an effect on everyone's lives.Also, I'm shallow too, I like using the chat rooms for conversation completely irrelevant to anything regarding religion, make friends and whatnot.
I don't know any atheists who claim humans as gods... It sounds like that would be all semantics though. I don't believe in anything supernatural, and most atheists don't. But humans are just humans in my view, beautiful sometimes and ugly other times, but overall I love us
Hm, well the only thing that seems to have in common with a religion is time dedication. I don't think "new atheism" is a religion still, I certainly wouldn't dedicate my career to such a pursuit (I love where I'm going too much,) but I wouldn't call it a religion. To shed a bit of light on new-atheism vs. old-atheism. I think the new-atheists are more angered at the atrocities inspired by religion, some of which I mentioned earlier, so they see it as worthwhile to do what they do. Personally I think their approach is a bit off, trying to remove someone's religious faith is next to impossible, if someone is going to stop believing, they're going to do it themselves, in fact trying to attack the religious basis for their beliefs just shuts people down, it's counter-intuitive. So I like to be "anti-homophobia/pro-equality", "anti-violence/pro-peace", "anti-theocracy/pro-constitutional democracy", because if I decide to be "anti-god&faith/pro-atheism" I'm going to get nothing done anyways, and there's no need for people to abandon god to be awesome people. So I speak for and argue for those other values, I'm not trying to destroy anyone's faith in god.
BUT I would like the add... "Militant atheism" is some guys who would never encourage violence of any kind, writing books and participating in debates while occasionally being rude. I don't see this as all that bad when "Militant Islam" and "Militant Christianity" have example after example of horrid acts of violence and murder. So even if you consider atheism a religion... It's hard to say it's worse than the others.
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I can't see why any athiest would come to a Christian chat site if they were not obviously seeking the Lord or looking for answers. I definately can't see any athiest trying to debate with or convert Christians with their beliefs or unbeliefs on a site full of devoted Christians. We just got to show them the love of the LORD and let God do all the work in speaking to their heart
Why WOULDN"T aethiests or anyone from any non christian group want to infiltrate a site like this on order to pull people away from God. It's the EXACT thing we are doing to the enemy. No Christian should fool themeslves into thinking you can take from the Devil and he won't notice or mind. Satan HATES you and everything you as a christian stand for. When satan tempted eve he did it IN the Garden of Eve, right in the very heart of human creation, probably the only safe place for man to have ever existed and thats where Satan struck.
There are people on this site whose aim it is to draw you away from God, from some of the posts in various forums that much should be obvious.
And please don't take this as aimed at you seekingtruth as much as just a general call to awareness.
I don't see you guys as "the enemy" nor do I think you're trying to fool me, I don't understand what we've done for you to feel differently about us. But what are you really getting at with this? Do you mean to say people like me are working for Satan? That is what it seems like from studying your words. I'm not sure how I could work for Satan, I don't meet any of the job requirements, like hating Christians. Also isn't it against Satan's employee policy to promote good things like peace?
Basically, we're not Satan, we're people, and we're discussing things civilly in a public forum, there's no need to equate us to Satan.
Basically, we're not Satan, we're people, and we're discussing things civilly in a public forum, there's no need to equate us to Satan.
Saying that demons exist and are able to possess us reminds me of the medieval times when doctors drilled holes into sick people's heads to release evil spirits.
Wait. Some people do that even now if you can believe it. But at least the patients don't die anymore. I forget what it's called.
Wait. Some people do that even now if you can believe it. But at least the patients don't die anymore. I forget what it's called.
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We actually have examples of "Militant Atheism" in action from history; early communists China and the USSR under Stalin are good examples. But as far as modern groups you're right; as I cant think of one Atheist paramilitary organisation that exists today (unless the ACLU counts!)
Also just to clarify I don't consider Atheism a religion. Some Atheists do get involved in a kind of cult of personality centered around either Hitchens or Dawkins, but on the whole I consider Atheism more of a philosophy rather than a religion.
) Also just to clarify I don't consider Atheism a religion. Some Atheists do get involved in a kind of cult of personality centered around either Hitchens or Dawkins, but on the whole I consider Atheism more of a philosophy rather than a religion.
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You are right, you are not Satan, but from the Christian view there is a war going on.
John 8:37-47
New International Version (NIV)
37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[a]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[b] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
John 8:37-47
New International Version (NIV)
37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[a]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[b] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
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Look layliecalmmind, anybody can work for satan, he doesn't have any job requirements nor does he discriminate. A lot of people are unaware that they are doing the devils work. Satan regularly even uses so called Christians to do his work. The devil is very deceptive and can disguise himself as an angel of light, he knows the bible better than most Christians do. There is a saying in Christianity "You are either for God or against God" There is no on the fence here, you can't serve two masters, you are either on God's side or the devils. It is that simple, doesn't mean that I think of you any less than I do a believer or think it makes you any lesser of a person. Jesus tells me to love everyone! All in all it is that unconditional, uncorruptable love that wins lost souls to Christ. I pray that you come to know God and His ways. God be with you!
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We actually have examples of "Militant Atheism" in action from history; early communists China and the USSR under Stalin are good examples. But as far as modern groups you're right; as I cant think of one Atheist paramilitary organisation that exists today (unless the ACLU counts!)
Also just to clarify I don't consider Atheism a religion. Some Atheists do get involved in a kind of cult of personality centered around either Hitchens or Dawkins, but on the whole I consider Atheism more of a philosophy rather than a religion.
) Also just to clarify I don't consider Atheism a religion. Some Atheists do get involved in a kind of cult of personality centered around either Hitchens or Dawkins, but on the whole I consider Atheism more of a philosophy rather than a religion.
So in summary, if atheists are terrible people, which can certainly happen just as often as it would happen in anyone else (I don't think there's an effect really) I don't think their philosophy/ideology (of atheism specifically, maybe they hold some messed up beliefs about other things) is at all responsible. And thanks for the clarification, nice to know.
Yes, America is a civilized first world country full of people far more educated than the places I'm speaking about. Think about hundreds of years ago when Christians did kill people like that, well going to some heavily Christian nations in Africa is like taking a time machine back hundreds of years ago. Look up abuse and killing for witchcraft in the Congo, look up what happens to homosexuals in Uganda. These places are sad and yes, I am glad that most Christians are not like that.
Also, the Bible does indeed say to kill homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13. Now yes, I know that there are theological and Biblical reasons as to why most of you believe those passages don't apply anymore, but it does say it, and it is the cause of the killing.
Also, the Bible does indeed say to kill homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13. Now yes, I know that there are theological and Biblical reasons as to why most of you believe those passages don't apply anymore, but it does say it, and it is the cause of the killing.
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I'm not extremely knowledgeable on early communist China, so I'll focus on the USSR. Stalin made a concerted effort to eradicate the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia he went so far as to imprison priests, tear down churches, seminaries, and monasteries among other things. His hatred of religion mainly stemmed from the fact that his mother forced him into a seminary when he was younger, and Lenin's influence on him (and consequently Marxism's influence on Lenin). This attitude towards religion in the USSR carried on for a long time after Stalin died; as they did the same thing to Catholics in Eastern Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
Basically I don't think Atheism itself was the main cause for the violence, but the various philosophies such as Marxism that call for a completely secular state caused violence for the same reason a Theocracy does. Both of those systems are set up in such a way that they can not tolerate religious diversity or else they would collapse. So yes Atheism can inspire people to violence; it's just done in a different way.
I don't think atheists are terrible people as a whole, but I certainly would argue that faith or the lack thereof does factor into how a person acts.
Basically I don't think Atheism itself was the main cause for the violence, but the various philosophies such as Marxism that call for a completely secular state caused violence for the same reason a Theocracy does. Both of those systems are set up in such a way that they can not tolerate religious diversity or else they would collapse. So yes Atheism can inspire people to violence; it's just done in a different way.
I don't think atheists are terrible people as a whole, but I certainly would argue that faith or the lack thereof does factor into how a person acts.