50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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Oil is a type of the Holy Spirit.
they asked the wise for oil.
The Holy Spirit in acts was imparted through another believer via laying on of hands.

The wise refused.

you are confused if you do not understand that Jesus invoked the "worthy" dimension.
It is solid bible.....if fact, what ,pray tell, do you think the bema seat rewards are???? just abstract crowns, or actual rewards for actually being worthy.

you are either being obtuse or you really are that ignorant of basic bible truths.
I can not have an insulting discussion.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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A Christian in name...

Matthew 13 (NKJV)

20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
10 virgin parable shows 10 saved entities
all 10 had:
oil= Holy Spirit
Light= illumination or revelation of the things of God
lamps = the word of God
were waiting on Jesus return
were in close fellowship with other believers
Had faith because they went out to meet Jesus.

all were christians

only half were worthy of being the bride.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
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10 virgin parable shows 10 saved entities
all 10 had:
oil= Holy Spirit
Light= illumination or revelation of the things of God
lamps = the word of God
were waiting on Jesus return
were in close fellowship with other believers
Had faith because they went out to meet Jesus.

all were christians

only half were worthy of being the bride.
Can a Christian run out of Holy Spirit?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I can not have an insulting discussion.
Ignorant means without knowledge.
you were exposed to erroneous teacher possibly

it also means that when shown basic truth ,some will debate it into ridiculous dynamics that go nowhere
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Can a Christian run out of Holy Spirit?
David said "take not thy Holy Spirit from me"
that prayer had nothing to do with covenant.

a better Question would be "why were saved people baptised in the Holy Spirit with tongued following"?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Are you saying the great tribulation is called Jacob's trouble, and Israel is gathered after that into the clouds? Are you saying only Israel / Jacob (with his trouble) goes through the great tribulation?
kinda
 
Jul 23, 2018
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There is no such thing as a non worthy Christian, you are either a Christian or a non-Christian. You either believe Jesus died for your sins or you do not.

A Christian can not miss the rapture (regardless of its timing).
salvation is one dynamic
service,rewards,faith,obedience,relating to others, and other dynamics are ALONGSIDE salvation.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Please explain Matthew 24:31 in plain English.



Yes, "He" with capital "H".

Revelation 14 (NKJV)

16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
Is He also on a horse with billions of other horses holding no sickle in his hand?

are we looking at 2 different events?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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When they invoke darby, they are saying they have no verses.

Literally " i see my position is destroyed but let me malign you as bible roadrage"

We have left them standing in ashes and in denial.

Comical actually.

They SERIOUSLY have a Vendetta against Darby, to the point that I think some of them would like to boil him in oil.

That type of hatred is not only SICK, but it is completely NON-CHRISTIAN. And that is despite that I have never read a thing that he has written, and Never even heard a single sermon where Darby or a single quote was ever mentioned. I have been involved with several Bible Teaching Churches, (only because we moved a lot), since the early 80's.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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There is no such thing as a non worthy Christian, you are either a Christian or a non-Christian. You either believe Jesus died for your sins or you do not.

A Christian can not miss the rapture (regardless of its timing).
True. The only ppl that won't be raptured are those with the mark of the beast.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Dear former pre-trib lost Christian,
Welcome home as a fellow true, truth-loving, tribulation praying Christian.
[...]
Luke 21 (ESV)
36But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.
Kind regards,
Your fellow loving Christian.
[pre-tribber here :D ]

You're right about one thing.

Luke 21:36 is NOT a "rapture" verse [/context].

Rather, it is addressed to those existing in that [Trib] time period (same as is the verse ALSO using this same "ekpheugó / ekphygein / ekphygōsin [G1628 ('escape')]" word: 1 Thessalonians 5:3 (where "ruination" COMES UPON them suddenly--i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]," with MANY MORE OF THEM following on from that INITIAL one, just as Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse [equivalent the SEALS in the EARLY part of the future 7-yr Trib]).







Note to readers: ALL "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / coming of / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," per context; This means that Lk21:36 is NOT a "lose-your-salvation" context / idea, NOR a "partial-rapture theory" verse / idea---not that BenjaminN is saying either of THESE ideas)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
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Note to readers: ALL "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / coming of / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," per context; This means that Lk21:36 is NOT a "lose-your-salvation" context / idea, NOR a "partial-rapture theory" verse / idea---not that BenjaminN is saying either of THESE ideas)
Jesus was not standing on the Earth at the beginning of his first coming. Likewise, he is not standing on the Earth at the beginning of his second coming. His second coming is in the air at the clouds when the rapture happens and he will remain in the air to fight at Armageddon which is commonly understood as his second coming. By the time he steps foot on the Earth, his second coming is a past event and the 1000 reign of the rod of iron on Earth begins.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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For sure a Christian can lose his faith, and no longer be a Christian:

You are conflating two whole separate issues (pray that you may have strength to go through the tribulation is my interpretation of the one)...

The other:

The five foolish virgins were not Christians anymore, they lost their faith. Oil in the lamps are faith. A Christian can depart from the faith. However how can a Christian waiting for a post trib rapture not have faith when it happens for some reason whatsoever pretrib?


Now I have 3 posts of yours, that I want to address. I shows me YOU have a lot of learning to do. I will bunch them together.

In the above Post, You are counting everyone who claims to be a Christian, when at least 50% are NOT BORN AGAIN, according to the Parable you tried to quote.

Only Born Again Believers count.


John 3:2-7 (HCSB)
2 This man came to Him at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one could perform these signs You do unless God were with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


["BenjaminN said"] Can a Christian run out of Holy Spirit?

Wow, you sure have an erroneous view of WHO you think the Holy Spirit is. IT IS NOT AN IT. HE is the third Person of the HOLY TRINITY.
And Scripture says HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU.


John 14:16-17 (HCSB)
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.
17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you.



["BenjaminN said"] There is no such thing as a non worthy Christian, you are either a Christian or a non-Christian. You either believe Jesus died for your sins or you do not.

A Christian can not miss the rapture (regardless of its timing).


I guess you have not had time to read Matthew Capture 7 yet.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them,
I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Nor did you read THOROUGHLY Mat. 25.

Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins {Church goers} who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout:Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered,No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied,
I assure you: I do not know you!’
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.

That KNOWING HIM PERSONALLY, INTIMATELY, with YOUR WHOLE HEART, as your PERSONAL LORD, meaning MASTER; is the deciding factor with your being TRULY Born Again, or just a psuedo Christian.

I used to BE a psuedo Christian, until two months before my 29th birthday. (now I am 72). I mean I had the whole order of service MEMORIZED, sat in a pew almost every Sunday, and day dreamed every sermon away. And then attempted SUICIDE 3 times in one week. I KNOW FOR SURE I WAS UNSAVED AS I COULD BE, and the TERROR of absolutely KNOWING I was going to go to HADES/HELL, if I finished pulling that TRIGGER on my Pistol.

Don't even try to tell me there is No SUCH THING as an FAKE CHRISTIAN. I went to SUNDAY SCHOOL, became an ACOLITE (altar boy), Went to Lutheran Services Volunteers, at the Lutheran College, AND WAS AS UNSAVED AS I COULD BE. You do not want to tell me that phony story, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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IN THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS, the LACK OF OIL IN THERE LAMPS, is SYMBOLISM for the HOLY SPIRIT being missing in their HEARTS. THAT MEAN HE NEVER WAS THEIR, they only thought HE WAS.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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IN THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS, the LACK OF OIL IN THERE LAMPS, is SYMBOLISM for the HOLY SPIRIT being missing in their HEARTS. THAT MEAN HE NEVER WAS THEIR, they only thought HE WAS.
That cannot be correct since they did have some oil but ran out while sleeping so they did have the Holy Spirit but they lost it somehow and I believe that is due to the false Christ/ antichrist and they becoming Apostates.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

A lamp that goes out was lit at some point and that means they had some oil.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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After the tribulation, after the rapture and return of Christ on the clouds:

Revelation 14 (NKJV)

16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
That gathering you referenced is DURING the trib

But id realize you NEED IT TO ERRONEOUSLY BE PLACED AFTER.

Change the bible....protect error

Every time
 
Jul 23, 2018
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IN THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS, the LACK OF OIL IN THERE LAMPS, is SYMBOLISM for the HOLY SPIRIT being missing in their HEARTS. THAT MEAN HE NEVER WAS THEIR, they only thought HE WAS.
I love you bro

But osas is error.

Heb 6 has the saved departing the faith.