Hebrews 6 & 10 DO NOT speak to "losing your salvation"....read on!

[SomeDisciple]

I mean, wouldn't willful unbelief be repenting your repentance? Isn't repentance toward god still required nowadays? Or can you just believe in jesus' sacrifice, and then completely ignore the conviction of the holy spirit for the rest of your life, now? Because completely ignoring the holy spirit wouldn't be... offensive or anything.

 

[cv5]

John Macarthur is a wolf.

I'm not going to attack the man personally. But the meat of his older work is quite good to excellent. Doctrine is spot on for the most part. I definitely do not agree with everything he says.
But that's goes for probably everyone else on planet earth.

I am told internal Church politics can be troublesome. Or worse. Especially lately. But that's a problem they will have to sort out.

 

[cv5]

Absolutely, I read and like what you posst much of the time. Here I am not even beginning to attmpt to refute what you have posted about having tasted of salvation and choosing to go back to a life of sin, but judging for ourselves what is right, I believe when a brother or sister is weak, and appears to have committed dthe atrocity to which you refer, they are not always intentionally going to the adversary.
If I am able to forgive those who have been weak, I know our Father is love and perfect and merciful, so do not be guided into judgin as is said, unto damnation. This time will come to all of the saints.

According to Galatians 6:1, we are to restore one who has stumbled with a spirit of gentleness.
But that is definitely not the main topic of Hebrews.

 

[soberxp]

I mean, wouldn't willful unbelief be repenting your repentance? Isn't repentance toward god still required nowadays? Or can you just believe in jesus' sacrifice, and then completely ignore the conviction of the holy spirit for the rest of your life, now? Because completely ignoring the holy spirit wouldn't be... offensive or anything.

你如果真正明白了神的形象，那就是神真的能拯救所有的人，包括不信的人，如果你不能理解和明白，那说明你已经歪曲了福音的话语。

 

[Deuteronomy]

你如果真正明白了神的形象，那就是神真的能拯救所有的人，包括不信的人，如果你不能理解和明白，那说明你已经歪曲了福音的话语。

Do that ^ mean this

If you really understand the image of God, it is that God can really save all people, including those who do not believe, and if you do not understand, it means that you have distorted the Word of the Gospel.​

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[soberxp]

Do that ^ mean this

If you really understand the image of God, it is that God can really save all people, including those who do not believe, and if you do not understand, it means that you have distorted the Word of the Gospel.​

Thanks!

~Deut

是这个意思。
也许你会困惑，我为什么这样说？
因为我和神有了直接的接触。
就像外星人那样的第三类接触，
也许你不相信，
但我有责任将正确的信息传递下去。

我问一个直接的问题，
为什么我们需要学会忍耐，原谅?

 

[Deuteronomy]

是这个意思。
也许你会困惑，我为什么这样说？
因为我和神有了直接的接触。

Thank you for your reply, which in English says: "That's what it means. Maybe you'll be confused, why would I say that? Because I have direct contact with God."

Why are you replying in Chinese on this thread (since few of us, if any, here at CChat .. other than you apparently .. can understand it)

Thanks!

 

[SomeDisciple]

So, when Paul says that without faith, it is impossible to please god... and that in order to even come to god, you must have faith- NOT ONLY that he exists... but that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him- you have to believe BOTH of those things... is Paul wrong, or am I just misunderstanding him?

 

[cv5]

So, when Paul says that without faith, it is impossible to please god... and that in order to even come to god, you must have faith- NOT ONLY that he exists... but that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him- you have to believe BOTH of those things... is Paul wrong, or am I just misunderstanding him?

Election, foreordination, predestination.......sounds like you're heading down that track.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Election, foreordination, predestination.......sounds like you're heading down that track.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by those things. With respect to "predestination" I don't think that god picked people at random and was like "yep these people are gonna be believers, and then everyone else is going to HELL!". That doesn't make sense.

 

[Runningman]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is basically saying if you've seen everything possible and still don't believe then repentance is impossible. Nothing can persuade such people.

The writer is talking about five things his audience of Hebrews would have been familiar with:

1. Once enlightened
2. Have tasted the heavenly gift
3. Made a partaker of the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the good word of God
5. Tasted the powers of the world to come

While the text isn't crystal clear what the heavenly gift is or what the powers of the world to come are, it's most likely something to do with miracles performed through the laying on of hands. I am not a cessationist so I believe that, as necessary, God still does do miracles using hand- laying.

Jesus Christ isn't crucified repeatedly so this is entirely rhetorical. It's clear from the broader context that Jesus is not an animal sacrifice ritual that is performed as needed. In other words, accept Jesus' one and only sacrifice because nothing else can save you.

 

[Edify]

The term "Oracles of God"........is hardcore heavy duty OT......
Do a study and find out for yourself.

That's what I'm saying Hebrews is quite tricky and you need to understand the Jewishness of these terms before you can rightly comprehend a book.

If it's in the epistle, it's NT all the way, unless stating something historical.

 

[Edify]

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is basically saying if you've seen everything possible and still don't believe then repentance is impossible. Nothing can persuade such people.

The writer is talking about five things his audience of Hebrews would have been familiar with:

1. Once enlightened
2. Have tasted the heavenly gift
3. Made a partaker of the Holy Spirit
4. Tasted the good word of God
5. Tasted the powers of the world to come

While the text isn't crystal clear what the heavenly gift is or what the powers of the world to come are, it's most likely something to do with miracles performed through the laying on of hands. I am not a cessationist so I believe that, as necessary, God still does do miracles using hand- laying.

Jesus Christ isn't crucified repeatedly so this is entirely rhetorical. It's clear from the broader context that Jesus is not an animal sacrifice ritual that is performed as needed. In other words, accept Jesus' one and only sacrifice because nothing else can save you.

1. enlightened - eyes open to the truth
2. There's one main heavenly gift, & that's salvation
3. The ONLY way to do so is to be saved
4. Obeyed the Word resulting in its blessing
5. Only the saved can do so.

 

[cv5]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by those things. With respect to "predestination" I don't think that god picked people at random and was like "yep these people are gonna be believers, and then everyone else is going to HELL!". That doesn't make sense.

You really do need to find out friend. The sooner the better....

 

[HatedForNoReason]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by those things. With respect to "predestination" I don't think that god picked people at random and was like "yep these people are gonna be believers, and then everyone else is going to HELL!". That doesn't make sense.

Romans 9

So thankful that God choose me as one of his elect.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

I mean, wouldn't willful unbelief be repenting your repentance? Isn't repentance toward god still required nowadays? Or can you just believe in jesus' sacrifice, and then completely ignore the conviction of the holy spirit for the rest of your life, now? Because completely ignoring the holy spirit wouldn't be... offensive or anything.

James 2:19
New King James Version

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Believe in Jesus sacrifice and continue sinning like a demon is not enough to be saved. You must receive the Holy Spirit=born again to be saved, which is only given to God's elects.

 

[Gideon300]

Have to strongly disagree!

IT IS TOTALLY about the possibility of losing your salvation!

Heb 3 & 4 lays the groundwork for this!

As regards the supposed "Jewishness" of Hebrews, that is a complete red herring, it is for the Church (Jew and Gentile alike), The Body of Christ....PERIOD!

The problem is with the definition of salvation. It is wrongly interpreted as going to heaven when you die. If you are not in heaven now, you are not going to be there in the next life either.

Eternal life is just that, eternal. "He who has the Son has Life". So all who are born again are alive in Christ. The next question for the believer is, "Does the Son have you?" Many accept Christ as Saviour and are born again. Not everyone accepts Christ as Lord.

The Bible is clear that there are two salvations. The salvation of the spirit is instant and is God's work. The salvation of the soul is progressive. It is the work of God but it requires our cooperation. It's a lifetime process and we will not achieve perfection in this life.

A simple example. I used to play table tennis. I got into a competition, about as low level as you can get. I began to improve, so I began to practice more and exercise to get fitter. Soon I was winning more. Our team won the competition that year - "C" grade. Not exactly the stuff of you tube highlights. Table Tennis was taking me over. A friend saw it happening and warned me. I did not return to the game after that.

No one would say that Table Tennis is a great evil. But if it affect us spiritually, it is wrong for us. Every time we obey God and give up something for the sake of the Kingdom, the hold of self is reduced and we grow spiritually. That is the salvation of the soul. That is what is means to carry the cross.

The salvation of the soul is primarily the will being freed to serve Christ and not self. It also includes the renewal of the mind. It's a big subject and I can't do justice to it here.

 

[Gideon300]

James 2:19
New King James Version

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Believe in Jesus sacrifice and continue sinning like a demon is not enough to be saved. You must receive the Holy Spirit=born again to be saved, which is only given to God's elects.

My bible says to receive Christ to be born again - John 1:12. I know too many people who claim to have been saved by receiving the Holy Spirit. That is deception.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

My bible says to receive Christ to be born again - John 1:12. I know too many people who claim to have been saved by receiving the Holy Spirit. That is deception.

Ephesians 1:13-14
New King James Version

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-seal.html

After God gave me the Holy Spirit, by read the 10 commandments, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their lives and they are idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages which are rare.

I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, violence (Psalm 11:5), murder (hate is also murder 1 John 3:15), jealousy/covet, greed, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list. You must remove those sources of sin.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for a short amount of time. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins (confess and not do those sins anymore) throughout your life which is called sanctification.

After you have received the Holy Spirit and have confessed and repented of any known sins that you have done, then you pray to God to get rid of all evil spirits out of you.

Say “In the name of Jesus Christ I bind and cast out all evil spirits out of me.” Then automatically your mouth will open and you will exhale all those evil spirits out of you.

When you sin, demons have the legal right to enter your body and you have less self-control in what you do.

The Holy Spirit is the permanent cure to boredom but it is only given to God’s elects. (Proof: John 14:26-27 and Philippians 4:7)
The Holy Spirit also gives the fruit of the spirit.(Galatians 5:22-24)

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Youtube: Avoid: The First Step to Defeating Lust // Six Steps to Defeating Sexual Sin

Youtube: Unreserved love and We Are The Reason

Read James 4:4, Proverbs 29:27, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy. Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Does disobeying God by sinning show your love for God?

1 John 5:3
King James Version

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Also its the grace of God that God's elect have the power to remove all those sources of sin from their lives.

Nonelects have made a bunch of false gospels that don't mention about how to receive the Real Holy Spirit since they have never experienced it before.

 

[gb9]

Ephesians 1:13-14
New King James Version

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-seal.html

After God gave me the Holy Spirit, by read the 10 commandments, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their lives and they are idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages which are rare.

I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, violence (Psalm 11:5), murder (hate is also murder 1 John 3:15), jealousy/covet, greed, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list. You must remove those sources of sin.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for a short amount of time. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins (confess and not do those sins anymore) throughout your life which is called sanctification.

After you have received the Holy Spirit and have confessed and repented of any known sins that you have done, then you pray to God to get rid of all evil spirits out of you.

Say “In the name of Jesus Christ I bind and cast out all evil spirits out of me.” Then automatically your mouth will open and you will exhale all those evil spirits out of you.

When you sin, demons have the legal right to enter your body and you have less self-control in what you do.

The Holy Spirit is the permanent cure to boredom but it is only given to God’s elects. (Proof: John 14:26-27 and Philippians 4:7)
The Holy Spirit also gives the fruit of the spirit.(Galatians 5:22-24)

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Youtube: Avoid: The First Step to Defeating Lust // Six Steps to Defeating Sexual Sin

Youtube: Unreserved love and We Are The Reason

Read James 4:4, Proverbs 29:27, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy. Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Does disobeying God by sinning show your love for God?

1 John 5:3
King James Version

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Also its the grace of God that God's elect have the power to remove all those sources of sin from their lives.

Nonelects have made a bunch of false gospels that don't mention about how to receive the Real Holy Spirit since they have never experienced it before.

1. say that watching t v is a sin.

2. point to a youtube video.

yep, that is consistent......