FreeGrace2 said:
I was hoping you would take my challenge and quote the verse and put in ( ) the words you thing "coming" and "gathering" mean, so everyone will know what you think the verse means.
The Marriage Supper occurs in Heaven before the Second Coming(see Rev 19). The Church does not miss it's own wedding.
The wording in Rev 19 shows what is about to occur. Not what IS occurring.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb
has come, and his bride
has made herself ready.
8
Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those
who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
You're probably not going to like my explanation, but here goes:
v.7 the bolded words don't indicate is occurring but what is about to occur. Both "has come" and "has made herself ready" are in the aorist indicative. It's a presentation of assertion. iow, it's now here. And the Bride (those already dead in heaven) are ready for it.
It says nothing about the wedding occurring.
v.8 the bolded words indicate what was the custom in Jesus' day. See Matt 22:11 - “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes."
v.9 speaks of who has been invited. If the wedding was going to take place in heaven, this is weird wording. It would have said something like "blessed are those who are AT the wedding".
So v.8 only indicates that the guests (already dead saints in heaven) were given the proper clothing for the wedding supper.
And v.9 speaks of who has been invited. Not who is there.
And Rev 20:4 clearly shows that there will be trib martyrs who will be resurrected in the FIRST resurrection and rule with Christ for the Millennium. If the wedding supper already occurs in heaven, all these martyrs will MISS OUT on the wedding supper.
Instead, Jesus brings all the prepared Bride with Him when he resurrects their bodies and raptures the living believers. This occurs at the Second Advent.
You have no verses that show Jesus taking the resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
Acts 3:21 says that Jesus remains in heaven until the times of restoration.
1 Cor 15:23 shows that "those who belong to Christ" are resurrected as a group, not as in different stages, times, etc.
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
The key here is "each in turn". And only 2 groups are noted: Christ as firstfruits, and then "WHEN He comes, those who belong to Him". That would include believers from Adam on. As a group.
John 5:29 says there are 2 resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
Rev 20:6 shows two resurrections as well.
Pretrib rapture theory must divide up the resurrection of believers into stages or groups, yet there is nothing in Scripture to support such a thing.
Your Post-Trib Rapture speculation is absurd.
2 Thess 2:1 isn't speculation. Not hardly. To say the verse that refutes your theory is absurd is, well frankly, absurd itself.
Meeting your challenges is not on my to-do list. I am simply trying to clear things up for all those you have been befixed and befuddled with your convoluted imaginations.
Of course it's not on your to-do list. You would have to admit that you can't re-define either "coming" or "gathering" to mean something other than what is clear; the Second Advent and rapture. They occur together.
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This is what the we see in Revelation 19.
