A Closer Look at Ephesians 1:13
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Paul's comment to the Galatians pertained to an error being taught that the works associated with the law of Moses were necessary in addition to the requirements set forth in the NT. The NT gospel message includes the need for everyone to repent and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and to receive the Holy Ghost.
As stated the experience recorded in Acts 19 happened in 52 A.D. (This confirms the message presented by Peter at Pentecost and to the Gentiles was still being shared by Paul over 20 years later)
The Acts 10 account shows the group believing Peter's message that included their being obedient to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord after receiving the Holy Ghost. This occurred in approximately 39 A.D.
Acts 8 account shows obedience to the same message.
The word provides ongoing evidence of what is required of all in association with Jesus' sacrifice.
As stated the experience recorded in Acts 19 happened in 52 A.D. (This confirms the message presented by Peter at Pentecost and to the Gentiles was still being shared by Paul over 20 years later)
The Acts 10 account shows the group believing Peter's message that included their being obedient to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord after receiving the Holy Ghost. This occurred in approximately 39 A.D.
Acts 8 account shows obedience to the same message.
The word provides ongoing evidence of what is required of all in association with Jesus' sacrifice.
How was this date determined?
There is nothing "required" in association with Jesus' sacrifice. He did it ALL.
All a person can do to receive eternal life is believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and died for his/her sins and provides salvation for those who believe that.
Faith alone for salvation.
Everything else is in reference to reward.
There is nothing "required" in association with Jesus' sacrifice. He did it ALL.
All a person can do to receive eternal life is believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and died for his/her sins and provides salvation for those who believe that.
Faith alone for salvation.
Everything else is in reference to reward.
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Impossible. If water is what saves a person, then it will be physical works required for Spiritual circumstances. That's not how God works . . . at all. Furthermore, if water is necessary for something spiritual to take place, such as Salvation, that would mean that no one could be saved on the side of Mount Everest, nor could Salvation be possible if in the middle of the desert . . . where there is no water. There is no way that I would EVER put these kinds of restrictions on the Power of God to save whomever He so chooses.
Yes, you are sharing Scriptures, but they are not within the context of the entire Bible. If you want to understand the Workings of Salvation, study Colossians 2:9-15. Salvation depends upon the Work of Christ . . . not the work of man.
Ezekiel 7:13b NKJV - "No one will strengthen himself Who lives in iniquity."
Do you get it? There is no act that a human can perform that will cause him to be in a right standing with the Lord. Salvation is the Work of Christ, and this is based upon a Promise, not the works of a mere human. The Work of Salvation is entirely dependent upon Christ, lest we have the right to boast about what acts we have performed.
Getting wet with liquid is a worldly act. God does not depend on worldly acts to induce Salvation . . . He never has. However, the Lord does use TONS AND TONS of symbols in His Word, and He does this to keep His Plan a Mystery. And to this day, the Mystery that Paul revealed . . . is still a Mystery. Virtually no "Christian" is even aware of this predicament of the Mysterious Plan of God, and that's a massive problem.
Ezekiel 7:13b NKJV - "No one will strengthen himself Who lives in iniquity."
Do you get it? There is no act that a human can perform that will cause him to be in a right standing with the Lord. Salvation is the Work of Christ, and this is based upon a Promise, not the works of a mere human. The Work of Salvation is entirely dependent upon Christ, lest we have the right to boast about what acts we have performed.
Getting wet with liquid is a worldly act. God does not depend on worldly acts to induce Salvation . . . He never has. However, the Lord does use TONS AND TONS of symbols in His Word, and He does this to keep His Plan a Mystery. And to this day, the Mystery that Paul revealed . . . is still a Mystery. Virtually no "Christian" is even aware of this predicament of the Mysterious Plan of God, and that's a massive problem.
And I explained what 'obeying the gospel' means. It means to believe the gospel.
You have 1 verse mentioning "obey". I can give you about 24 that clearly state that salvation/eternal life is obtained on the faith. Without anything else.
That's why Hebn 5:9 cannot mean anything other than believing the gospel.
Since you believe that salvation is based on obedience to commands, which is really human effort, then you must strongly disagree with Paul's answer to the jailer's question in Acts 16.
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
And you must also strongly disagree with these words from Jesus Himself:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:28 - I give them (believers from 5:24) eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
You have 1 verse mentioning "obey". I can give you about 24 that clearly state that salvation/eternal life is obtained on the faith. Without anything else.
That's why Hebn 5:9 cannot mean anything other than believing the gospel.
Since you believe that salvation is based on obedience to commands, which is really human effort, then you must strongly disagree with Paul's answer to the jailer's question in Acts 16.
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
And you must also strongly disagree with these words from Jesus Himself:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:28 - I give them (believers from 5:24) eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
FreeGrace2 said:
Water baptism is the symbol for the spiritual reality that has already occurred.
OK. But 1 Peter 3:20, 21 says -
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
In v.20 Peter noted that Noah + 7 were "saved THROUGH water". He didn't write "saved BY water". In fact, the water killed all the rest of mankind, plus animals. That is LITERAL WATER.
In v.21 Peter describes LITERAL WATER as a SYMBOL for the "baptism that now saves you".
So, being immersed in LITERAL WATER symbolizes the salvation that we have in Christ.
Water baptism is the symbol for the spiritual reality that has already occurred.
OK. But 1 Peter 3:20, 21 says -
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
In v.20 Peter noted that Noah + 7 were "saved THROUGH water". He didn't write "saved BY water". In fact, the water killed all the rest of mankind, plus animals. That is LITERAL WATER.
In v.21 Peter describes LITERAL WATER as a SYMBOL for the "baptism that now saves you".
So, being immersed in LITERAL WATER symbolizes the salvation that we have in Christ.
Man is not performing anything. He steps out in obedience to God's command and God does the miraculous.
The mystery Paul refers to is that God opened the way of salvation to all mankind; both Jew and Gentile. Both would be accepted in the same way through the NT mandate first presented by Peter on the Day of Pentecost.
Eph 3:3-6
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Col 2:11-12
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The mystery Paul refers to is that God opened the way of salvation to all mankind; both Jew and Gentile. Both would be accepted in the same way through the NT mandate first presented by Peter on the Day of Pentecost.
Eph 3:3-6
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Col 2:11-12
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Salvation is not possible without first believing in Jesus' sacrifice as payment for all of the sins of humanity. However, according to many scriptures it is apparent that each individual must believe and obey the rest of the message. This NT message includes the command to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of one's personal sin. The scripture states that EVERYONE is to be obedient to the command. (Acts 2:38) In addition, God will provide the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:33) And this can take place before or afterward as witnessed in scripture.
Free2grace, Wansvic, 2Timothy,
Understanding all these things has been so stressful for so many years to try to find what really is the truth.
From experience with 100% certainty just cause someone believes does not mean they have the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is given always supernatural things occur. I met so many that did nothing and did not believe and God irresistably came and they experienced the things just like ACTS Holy Ghost experiences. Or they were led out of nowhere to get prayed for or baptize etc. No matter what the method, it only happens if its God. They all experienced supernatural things and it changed them, they did not choose belief or change themself. It sounds crazy that God controls but as 2Timothy says, if a man’s work or choice preserves himself then it’s not a gift from God that He takes 100% credit.
As 2Timothy said He keeps these mysteries unawares to the world. That’s why the scripture is mish mash of contradictions and confusion no one can agree on 😭. Instead of the truth being so evident and simple a child can see or that all can agree, it’s conflict of what is true all in Christianity and the world. It really crushes me inside because no one has any idea the real truth. And that the truth is predetermined and totally not good for vast majority of humans without their choice. And so christisnity as a whole is everywhere in their beliefs.
Only a tiny percent actually experience God Holy Spirit like Paul prayed over people. At churches you will never see the power of Holy Spirit like 99% of the time.
How can people think they have the Holy Spirit if they did not experience the things those in the Bible experienced? Why is it so few experience the Holy Spirit despite millions believers and those tryin to live for God?
No matter if it’s belief, prayer, baptism, repent, Holy Spirit only comes when God chooses. No act of man has any say. If a man believes or gets baptized or tries to repent, unless God does it and chose it then it doesn’t count 😭. That’s what Christians can’t see and it was absolute pain me seeking and seeing and shown by those who experienced God and others who were taken to hell and heaven and dreams/visions and revelations of endtimes and afterlife. It’s nothing like mainstream Christians think 😭. It’s not good at all for vast majority humans born. Cause if they are exposed to hope of God and knowkedge of hell or heaven and made to think they can choose, in reality they can’t. It’s predetermined for everyone 😭. I wanted God, love, the Holy Spirit and salvation so bad like as if every day was my last.
Even scientists and mathematicians found the only reality can be that we are in a simulation. Like a movie played out by a controller. They just don’t know that controller is God.
I realized there is a difference between those who experienced what those in bible did with supernatural things and all those in church who believe in their mind they have Holy Spirit but in reality never experienced the power that is required and only way to be changed acceptably to God.
And it’s so painful because all a person can do if God does not reveal himself or come to them is try to learn about God and believe and do what they can to understand and follow. If God won’t give the Holy Spirit to humans that do that when that’s all the power they have been given to choose and act, then is that all loving?
Understanding all these things has been so stressful for so many years to try to find what really is the truth.
From experience with 100% certainty just cause someone believes does not mean they have the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is given always supernatural things occur. I met so many that did nothing and did not believe and God irresistably came and they experienced the things just like ACTS Holy Ghost experiences. Or they were led out of nowhere to get prayed for or baptize etc. No matter what the method, it only happens if its God. They all experienced supernatural things and it changed them, they did not choose belief or change themself. It sounds crazy that God controls but as 2Timothy says, if a man’s work or choice preserves himself then it’s not a gift from God that He takes 100% credit.
As 2Timothy said He keeps these mysteries unawares to the world. That’s why the scripture is mish mash of contradictions and confusion no one can agree on 😭. Instead of the truth being so evident and simple a child can see or that all can agree, it’s conflict of what is true all in Christianity and the world. It really crushes me inside because no one has any idea the real truth. And that the truth is predetermined and totally not good for vast majority of humans without their choice. And so christisnity as a whole is everywhere in their beliefs.
Only a tiny percent actually experience God Holy Spirit like Paul prayed over people. At churches you will never see the power of Holy Spirit like 99% of the time.
How can people think they have the Holy Spirit if they did not experience the things those in the Bible experienced? Why is it so few experience the Holy Spirit despite millions believers and those tryin to live for God?
No matter if it’s belief, prayer, baptism, repent, Holy Spirit only comes when God chooses. No act of man has any say. If a man believes or gets baptized or tries to repent, unless God does it and chose it then it doesn’t count 😭. That’s what Christians can’t see and it was absolute pain me seeking and seeing and shown by those who experienced God and others who were taken to hell and heaven and dreams/visions and revelations of endtimes and afterlife. It’s nothing like mainstream Christians think 😭. It’s not good at all for vast majority humans born. Cause if they are exposed to hope of God and knowkedge of hell or heaven and made to think they can choose, in reality they can’t. It’s predetermined for everyone 😭. I wanted God, love, the Holy Spirit and salvation so bad like as if every day was my last.
Even scientists and mathematicians found the only reality can be that we are in a simulation. Like a movie played out by a controller. They just don’t know that controller is God.
I realized there is a difference between those who experienced what those in bible did with supernatural things and all those in church who believe in their mind they have Holy Spirit but in reality never experienced the power that is required and only way to be changed acceptably to God.
And it’s so painful because all a person can do if God does not reveal himself or come to them is try to learn about God and believe and do what they can to understand and follow. If God won’t give the Holy Spirit to humans that do that when that’s all the power they have been given to choose and act, then is that all loving?
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If you think that individuals must "obey the rest of the message" to be saved, then you do not understand the gospel at all.
But, to clarify, what, exactly is included in "the rest of the message", just so I can better understand your position.
Define "repent".
Acts 2:38 was a specific message to the very Jews who were involved directly in the crucifixion. What Peter said to them doesn't apply to anyone else.
Here are some verses to examine.
Salvation:
Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 1: 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Eternal Life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
No mention of obedience. Only believing (faith).
When man believes what Jesus did on the cross, God saves.
But, to clarify, what, exactly is included in "the rest of the message", just so I can better understand your position.
Define "repent".
Acts 2:38 was a specific message to the very Jews who were involved directly in the crucifixion. What Peter said to them doesn't apply to anyone else.
Here are some verses to examine.
Salvation:
Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 1: 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Eternal Life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
No mention of obedience. Only believing (faith).
When man believes what Jesus did on the cross, God saves.
Paul made the comment you reference. Again, one must believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved. Notice also the word of the Lord they shared with them prompted the group to be baptized. Afterward he rejoiced believing in God along with everyone else of his household. Also noteworthy is the fact that this occurred at midnight. Getting water baptized was not done as a public display.
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
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