Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[de-emerald]

Since it is important to understand this Verse completely, let's use the [OLDEST] known Greek Translation to which ALL New Testaments should follow.

From the Codex Sinaiticus:

Revelation 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief: blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, that he may not walk naked, and that men may not see his nakedness.

Nowhere can this Verse be described as a scene from Heaven.
And since it follows the Order of God's WRATH upon the Earth during the Tribulation, we know it is referring to Believers on Earth [who went through] the Tribulations since it's obvious Pre-Trib Rapture is pure BALONEY!

So we clearly understand that all throughout the Tribulation, Believers are to be looking for Christ's return and should be prepared because when He comes it will be like a Thief stealing the goods.

But more than anything, the ONLY people who would be looking for Christ's return during the Tribulation and the WRATH of God would be Believers in Christ [Christians]. So Verse 16 from the original Greek makes it even clearer Believers [will indeed] go through the Tribulation and the WRATH of God!

You could be right some believers in christ dont read the hole bible. and miss the mark in quite a lot of areas.

 

[cv5]

Ok so that explains why the tribulation will last seven years. Does that also apply to the people who are a live ? or the dead or both as in died a physical death who didnt believe in christ. will they be raised from the grave and preached to. and will the alive who didnt believe in christ be preached to ?. so are you saying when the tribulation starts, everyone left on earth dead or a live will still be given a chance to be saved ?

I would urge you to do some due diligence on the the Great White Throne judgment. You also need to understand the First Resurrection (those upon whom the second death has no power). Those of the first resurrection never see the GWTJ or the second death.

Really it's up to you to study these matters first and then come back and ask relevant questions.

 

[cv5]

You could be right some believers in christ dont read the hole bible. and miss the mark in quite a lot of areas.

Don't trust this guy he's a hack. A notorious hack. The pre-trib rapture, the redemption of national ethnic Israel, and the millennium are boilerplate doctrine don't ever forget it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

@Ahwatukee i would like you to anwser my post 871, as you seem pretty knowlegable on this subject, me personaly i have no idea. could you please just explain the rapture the tribulation, without mentioning any greek or hebrew to me and without quoting any scripture. Just explain it in a simple basic blunt explanation what happens to the believers who are alive and who are dead in the rapture, does the tribulation happen imeadiately after the rapture, what happens to none believers in the tribulation. , how long the tribulation is for. what happens after the tribulation. thanks would appreciate it.

Greetings de-emerald,

It is always refreshing when someone wants to truly know about these events and is my good pleasure to explain them, as well as all other Biblical topics. And though it is my policy to include scripture, I will try to refrain per your request:

Q: Explain the Rapture and the tribulation

The Dead in Christ - The word Rapture "caught up," is where Paul stated that the Lord would descend to the atmosphere (the air) and would resurrect the bodies of those who will have died from beginning of the church until that event takes place, where at which time their spirits will be reunited with their immortal and glorified resurrected bodies and caught up in the air.

The Living in Christ - Immediately after the dead in Christ have been raise in the air, those who are still alive in Christ, will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who will have just been resurrected. I believe this entire process of the resurrection and the living being caught up will take place in an instant. At this point the entire church from beginning to end will be gathered in the air to meet the Lord where according to His promise, will take the entire group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare of us.

Tribulation - The tribulation period, is another name for 'The Day of the Lord' which is the time period of God's wrath and will be seven years length and which follows A & B. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of that time of tribulation which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are three sets of seven judgments.

Does the tribulation happen immediately after the rapture - Once the church, dead and living, have been caught up to meet the Lord in the air and are taken to heaven, those who are still on the earth will be locked in to that time period which will begin when that ruler, the antichrist establishes his seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their long awaited temple and begin to temple sacrifices according to the Law. How long in between when the church is gathered and the seven year covenant is made, scripture does not say, but I'm pretty sure that there will not be that much of a gap. The world is going to be in chaos because of all those who are missing and this would be the perfect time for that antichrist to reveal himself. It is during this time that the seals will begin to take place, followed by the trumpet and then the bowl judgments, as well as the plagues of wrath that the two witnesses bring, which again will last through the entire seven years.

What happens to non-believers in the Tribulation - Non-Believers, the unsaved, will be those who will end up worshiping the beast, his image and receiving his mark in order save their physical lives. I'm sure that many of them will be killed via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments through the entire seven years. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age at the end of the seven years, those wicked who make it alive when the Lord returns will be killed by the Lord and their bodies will be eaten by the birds that the angel will have gathered for that very purpose. Anyone who worships the beast, his image or receives his mark, will be tormented in fire and sulfur (Lake of fire) in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have no rest Day and night.

How long the tribulation is for - Sorry but I have to mention a scripture LOL ... : In Daniel 9:27 seven years is the last seven years of seventy seven year periods (490) that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty nine of those seven year periods have been fulfilled. One seven year period remains unfulfilled, which will be fulfilled in conjunction with the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. It is shortly after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, which completes God's wrath, that Jesus will return to the earth. So to recap, the tribulation period is seven years in length, with the last 3 1/2 years referred to as 'The Great Tribulation.'

What happens after the Tribulation - After the tribulation, the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom on this earth. He will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The wicked will be killed by the double-edge sword which proceeds form the Lord's mouth, which figuratively represents the spoken word of God. An angel having the key to the Abyss will seize Satan and will cast him in and seal it over him where he will be restricted during the thousand year reign of Christ. At that time, all of those tribulation saints who will have died, will be resurrected immortal and glorified, being part of the first resurrection, and they will rule with Christ during the thousand years. There will be pre-millennial business such as the judgment of the sheep and the goats. The Lord will settle disputes between the nations of the righteous who make it through the tribulation period and who along with the remnant of Israel, still being in their immortal bodies, will repopulate the earth during that thousand years. The length of age will be extended during that thousand years like it was prior to the flood. I'm sure that there will be other pre-millennial business that will take place which I haven't mentioned here.

What Happens After the Thousand Years - I know that you didn't ask this one, but I'm adding it. After the thousand years if over, Satan will be released from the Abyss and will go out to deceive many who will have repopulated on the earth, figuratively called Gog and Magog and they will surround the city God loves, Jerusalem and God will rain fire down upon them.

Then Satan will be taken and thrown into the Lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown a thousand years earlier, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

After this, the spirits of the wicked throughout all of history will be released from Sheol/Hades and will be given resurrected bodies and will stand before God and be judged before His great white throne to give account of all of their sins. In addition, it is at the great white throne judgment where death and Hades personified, will be thrown into the lake of fire. Anyone's name not found written in the book of live will be cast into the Lake of fire.

Sometime after the Great White Throne Judgment, God will will destroy this current heaven and earth and all of their elements and will create a new heaven and new earth, with the new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven. This is the eternal state where those whose names were found in the book of life will live in the new Jerusalem and the new earth.

I hope that this was basic enough for you

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings de-emerald,

It is always refreshing when someone wants to truly know about these events and is my good pleasure to explain them, as well as all other Biblical topics. And though it is my policy to include scripture, I will try to refrain per your request:

Q: Explain the Rapture and the tribulation

The Dead in Christ - The word Rapture "caught up," is where Paul stated that the Lord would descend to the atmosphere (the air) and would resurrect the bodies of those who will have died from beginning of the church until that event takes place, where at which time their spirits will be reunited with their immortal and glorified resurrected bodies and caught up in the air.

The Living in Christ - Immediately after the dead in Christ have been raise in the air, those who are still alive in Christ, will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who will have just been resurrected. I believe this entire process of the resurrection and the living being caught up will take place in an instant. At this point the entire church from beginning to end will be gathered in the air to meet the Lord where according to His promise, will take the entire group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare of us.

Tribulation - The tribulation period, is another name for 'The Day of the Lord' which is the time period of God's wrath and will be seven years length and which follows A & B. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of that time of tribulation which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are three sets of seven judgments.

Does the tribulation happen immediately after the rapture - Once the church, dead and living, have been caught up to meet the Lord in the air and are taken to heaven, those who are still on the earth will be locked in to that time period which will begin when that ruler, the antichrist establishes his seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their long awaited temple and begin to temple sacrifices according to the Law. How long in between when the church is gathered and the seven year covenant is made, scripture does not say, but I'm pretty sure that there will not be that much of a gap. The world is going to be in chaos because of all those who are missing and this would be the perfect time for that antichrist to reveal himself. It is during this time that the seals will begin to take place, followed by the trumpet and then the bowl judgments, as well as the plagues of wrath that the two witnesses bring, which again will last through the entire seven years.

What happens to non-believers in the Tribulation - Non-Believers, the unsaved, will be those who will end up worshiping the beast, his image and receiving his mark in order save their physical lives. I'm sure that many of them will be killed via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments through the entire seven years. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age at the end of the seven years, those wicked who make it alive when the Lord returns will be killed by the Lord and their bodies will be eaten by the birds that the angel will have gathered for that very purpose. Anyone who worships the beast, his image or receives his mark, will be tormented in fire and sulfur (Lake of fire) in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have no rest Day and night.

How long the tribulation is for - Sorry but I have to mention a scripture LOL ... : In Daniel 9:27 seven years is the last seven years of seventy seven year periods (490) that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty nine of those seven year periods have been fulfilled. One seven year period remains unfulfilled, which will be fulfilled in conjunction with the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. It is shortly after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, which completes God's wrath, that Jesus will return to the earth. So to recap, the tribulation period is seven years in length, with the last 3 1/2 years referred to as 'The Great Tribulation.'

What happens after the Tribulation - After the tribulation, the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom on this earth. He will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The wicked will be killed by the double-edge sword which proceeds form the Lord's mouth, which figuratively represents the spoken word of God. An angel having the key to the Abyss will seize Satan and will cast him in and seal it over him where he will be restricted during the thousand year reign of Christ. At that time, all of those tribulation saints who will have died, will be resurrected immortal and glorified, being part of the first resurrection, and they will rule with Christ during the thousand years. There will be pre-millennial business such as the judgment of the sheep and the goats. The Lord will settle disputes between the nations of the righteous who make it through the tribulation period and who along with the remnant of Israel, still being in their immortal bodies, will repopulate the earth during that thousand years. The length of age will be extended during that thousand years like it was prior to the flood. I'm sure that there will be other pre-millennial business that will take place which I haven't mentioned here.

What Happens After the Thousand Years - I know that you didn't ask this one, but I'm adding it. After the thousand years if over, Satan will be released from the Abyss and will go out to deceive many who will have repopulated on the earth, figuratively called Gog and Magog and they will surround the city God loves, Jerusalem and God will rain fire down upon them.

Then Satan will be taken and thrown into the Lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown a thousand years earlier, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

After this, the spirits of the wicked throughout all of history will be released from Sheol/Hades and will be given resurrected bodies and will stand before God and be judged before His great white throne to give account of all of their sins. In addition, it is at the great white throne judgment where death and Hades personified, will be thrown into the lake of fire. Anyone's name not found written in the book of live will be cast into the Lake of fire.

Sometime after the Great White Throne Judgment, God will will destroy this current heaven and earth and all of their elements and will create a new heaven and new earth, with the new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven. This is the eternal state where those whose names were found in the book of life will live in the new Jerusalem and the new earth.

I hope that this was basic enough for you

*Correction under "What Happens after the Tribulation Period" "still being in their immortal bodies" should read "Still being in their mortal bodies."

Correction under "Tribulation" which should read "Which follows after the dead in Christ and the living are caught up."

 

[Ahwatukee]

Quite odd that people here are quite willing to tell us where wrong but not willing to explain, It a simple question, when the tribulation starts, and the only people left on earth are none believers, Will the dead be raised from the Grave and be preached to in order that they still might be saved.

Hello de-imerald,

When the tribulation begins, the people on the earth will be those who believed in Christ, but were not watching and went back into the world, willfully living according to the sinful nature. Because they will have not been ready, the doors will be shut.

There will also be those who did not believe prior to the church being gathered. Some will come to Christ and others will reject Christ and worship the beast, his image and receive his mark. Those who come to Christ after the church has been gathered and during the time period of God's wrath, are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as that group which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language. This group of tribulation saints will keep their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, with many being killed for that reason. So to recap, below are those who will be on the earth during the tribulation period:

* The unbelieving nation of Israel

* The 144,000 believing Israelites who come out Israel (Male Child)

* The saints who come to Christ after the church has been gathered and during the tribulation

* The wicked

Now in my estimation there will be billions of dead people who never herd of Christ from thousands of years ago.
And billions of people who where miss led.

Then there's the billions of people who herd of Christ and didn't know what to believe.

To quote father Abraham speaking to the rich man in Hades, they will have had Moses and the prophets to warn them i.e. the OT word of God, which also has prophesies regarding Christ. They will be without excuse. Only those whose names God wrote in the book of life throughout all of history will come to faith in Christ.

Then there will be the billions of people, who will be alive at the time of tribulation left on earth who herd of christ but where of diffrent faith.

Then theres the billions of people who got addicted to drugs. and then there's the billions of people who where possesed there whole life and didnt know.

We have to ask our selfs seeing is believing, everyones a doubting thomas who doesnt propally believe. doubting thomas was given a chance to believe.

Being addicted to drugs does not let anyone off the hook. The word "pharmakia' which is where we get our English word ''pharmaceutical' from, is translated as 'magic arts or sorcery.'

You have to keep in mind that, everyone is guilty of sin and no one is worthy to receive forgiveness. God in His Sovereignty chose to save some. It is God who is doing the saving and chose whom He wanted to save before the world even began. Anyone whom He did not chose is still guilt of sin.

God will judge all of the above in righteousness justice.

 

[AandW]

You could be right some believers in christ dont read the hole bible. and miss the mark in quite a lot of areas.

The most interesting condition to a pre-tribulation rapture is most European nations don't follow such a thing. It's basically an American doctrine and only preached in America. How Americans [and I am one] have mangled Scripture enough to concoct such a doctrine is flat out Embarrassing! It's sad to see the entire World understand these passages of Scripture and then watch Americans falling head over heels in love with something literally created by a [well known Heretic].

 

[Ahwatukee]

So please tell me if I'm understanding the tribulation and the rapture correctly. Before the tribulation starts there will be a rapture, the dead who believed in Christ will be raised up to meet Jesus in the clouds, and the people who are alive and believe in Christ they also will be raised up in the clouds to be with Jesus. There the believers will remain for seven years, whilst all those alive on the earth who haven't believed in Christ will be tortured for seven years,

Correct for all of the above

And all the dead who haven't believed in Christ will be raised also and tortured for seven years on earth. Then they will all be chucked in the lake of fire. ? have i got this right so far ?

False! The dead who haven't believed in Christ will remain dead, with their bodies in the ground decaying and their spirits in Sheol/Hades in torment in flame, like the rich man of Luke 16:19-31. At the end of the thousand years, their spirits will be released from Hades and they will be given resurrected bodies mete for their punishment, where at which time they will stand before God at His great white throne to be judged for their sins.

. at the end of the seven years there will be a new earth where all the believers get glorified new bodies ?

False! At the end of the seven years, the millennial kingdom will follow which takes place on this present earth and world-wide peace.

It is at the end of the thousand years that the great white throne judgment will take place, followed by the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem.

 

[AandW]

Don't trust this guy he's a hack. A notorious hack. The pre-trib rapture, the redemption of national ethnic Israel, and the millennium are boilerplate doctrine don't ever forget it.

Pre-Trib Rapture was created by a [proven] Heretic.


Dr. John Nelson Darby a Heretic? – Father of Pretrib ...
https://truthwithsnares.org › 2013/07/14 › dr-john-nels...
Jul 14, 2013 — Dr. John Nelson Darby was a heretic and from him we unarguably have the pretrib and dispensational teachings that permeate many churches ...


Dispensationalism- The Deadliest Heresy - New Life Christian ...
http://www.new-life.org.au › 23-churchmissionandsociety
Darby's teachings did not gain any traction until they crossed the Atlantic where Cyrus Scofield put them into his Scofield Reference Bible, where notes, ...


John Nelson Darby false pre-Tribulation Rapture
https://freestockphotos.com › DarbysInvention
Popularizers of John Nelson Darby's invention of the secret Coming of Christ, ... steeped in legalism, authoritarian leadership, and heretical teachings.



John Nelson Darby - False Teacher/False Prophet? | Page 5 ...
https://www.christianforums.com › threads › page-5
Feb 1, 2013 — I wouldn't even blame Darby for those following that theology. We are not robots. ... Everyone outside their sect is a heretic.

The google list is endless concerning the Heretic Doctrine!

 

[AandW]

You could be right some believers in christ dont read the hole bible. and miss the mark in quite a lot of areas.

Pre-Trib Rapture was created by a [proven] Heretic.

Dr. John Nelson Darby a Heretic? – Father of Pretrib ...
https://truthwithsnares.org › 2013/07/14 › dr-john-nels...
Jul 14, 2013 — Dr. John Nelson Darby was a heretic and from him we unarguably have the pretrib and dispensational teachings that permeate many churches ...


Dispensationalism- The Deadliest Heresy - New Life Christian ...
http://www.new-life.org.au › 23-churchmissionandsociety
Darby's teachings did not gain any traction until they crossed the Atlantic where Cyrus Scofield put them into his Scofield Reference Bible, where notes, ...


John Nelson Darby false pre-Tribulation Rapture
https://freestockphotos.com › DarbysInvention
Popularizers of John Nelson Darby's invention of the secret Coming of Christ, ... steeped in legalism, authoritarian leadership, and heretical teachings.


John Nelson Darby - False Teacher/False Prophet? | Page 5 ...
https://www.christianforums.com › threads › page-5
Feb 1, 2013 — I wouldn't even blame Darby for those following that theology. We are not robots. ... Everyone outside their sect is a heretic.

The google list is endless concerning the Heretic Doctrine!

 

[AandW]

I am not calling anyone here a Heretic because you are [just] mere followers of a False Doctrine.
But there is a [TRUTH] that has been proven time and time again:
Water seeks its own Level!

 

[Ahwatukee]

The most interesting condition to a pre-tribulation rapture is most European nations don't follow such a thing. It's basically an American doctrine and only preached in America. How Americans [and I am one] have mangled Scripture enough to concoct such a doctrine is flat out Embarrassing! It's sad to see the entire World understand these passages of Scripture and then watch Americans falling head over heels in love with something literally created by a [well known Heretic].

And you do dishonor the Lord by not recognizing that He experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely and yet are still believing and teaching that He is going to put His bride through through His wrath.

You also demonstrate that you do not know that it is not God's nature to punish the righteous with the wicked.

When God flooded the earth, the way in which He preserved Noah and his family was through the ark.

Likewise, when God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, He had Lot and His family removed from the area before destroying them.

The coming tribulation with its seals, trumpets and bowls will be the fulfillment of The Day of the Lord, the time of God's ultimate wrath upon the whole earth. The way that He is going to preserve the church is by gathering them off of the earth according to His promise, because the entire earth will be exposed to it. There will be no ark's to get on and no small cities to run to. There will be nowhere to hide on this earth. And by the time the Lord returns to the earth, the majority of the earth's population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. And you and others think that the Lord is going to put His bride through that? You don't understand what the believer is in Christ, that we have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God. Yet you want to put the church through God's wrath same as the wicked. No sir, you don't know what you are talking about!

The gathering of the church is not made up because I can read it in scripture. Your issue is when it happens and I just explained it to you. What point would there be in keeping watch if the church was to enter into the time of God's wrath regardless of whether we watch or not. You don't have all the information therefore don't make any sense. I'm guessing that you will have to find out the hard way, by seeing it take place with your own eyes in the very order that we have been telling you. Once the church as been gathered, then you will know that God's wrath will follow.

 

[AandW]

And you do dishonor the Lord by not recognizing that He experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely and yet are still believing and teaching that He is going to put His bride through through His wrath.

You also demonstrate that you do not know that it is not God's nature to punish the righteous with the wicked.

When God flooded the earth, the way in which He preserved Noah and his family was through the ark.

Likewise, when God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, He had Lot and His family removed from the area before destroying them.

The coming tribulation with its seals, trumpets and bowls will be the fulfillment of The Day of the Lord, the time of God's ultimate wrath upon the whole earth. The way that He is going to preserve the church is by gathering them off of the earth according to His promise, because the entire earth will be exposed to it. There will be no ark's to get on and no small cities to run to. There will be nowhere to hide on this earth. And by the time the Lord returns to the earth, the majority of the earth's population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. And you and others think that the Lord is going to put His bride through that? You don't understand what the believer is in Christ, that we have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God. Yet you want to put the church through God's wrath same as the wicked. No sir, you don't know what you are talking about!

The gathering of the church is not made up because I can read it in scripture. Your issue is when it happens and I just explained it to you. What point would there be in keeping watch if the church was to enter into the time of God's wrath regardless of whether we watch or not. You don't have all the information therefore don't make any sense. I'm guessing that you will have to find out the hard way, by seeing it take place with your own eyes in the very order that we have been telling you. Once the church as been gathered, then you will know that God's wrath will follow.

You dishonor the Lord's very Words in Revelation 16:15.
15 Behold, I come as a thief: blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, that he may not walk naked, and that men may not see his nakedness.


I am only dishonoring a [proven] heretic!

 

[GaryA]

I dont believe that Jesus took the punishment for our sins on the cross only to put us through torture by letting us go through the tribulation.

Why do you think God allowed the saints in the Dark Ages to be tortured and killed the way they were?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Pre-Trib Rapture was created by a [proven] Heretic.

Dr. John Nelson Darby a Heretic? – Father of Pretrib ...
https://truthwithsnares.org › 2013/07/14 › dr-john-nels...
Jul 14, 2013 — Dr. John Nelson Darby was a heretic and from him we unarguably have the pretrib and dispensational teachings that permeate many churches ...


Dispensationalism- The Deadliest Heresy - New Life Christian ...
http://www.new-life.org.au › 23-churchmissionandsociety
Darby's teachings did not gain any traction until they crossed the Atlantic where Cyrus Scofield put them into his Scofield Reference Bible, where notes, ...


John Nelson Darby false pre-Tribulation Rapture
https://freestockphotos.com › DarbysInvention
Popularizers of John Nelson Darby's invention of the secret Coming of Christ, ... steeped in legalism, authoritarian leadership, and heretical teachings.


John Nelson Darby - False Teacher/False Prophet? | Page 5 ...
https://www.christianforums.com › threads › page-5
Feb 1, 2013 — I wouldn't even blame Darby for those following that theology. We are not robots. ... Everyone outside their sect is a heretic.

The google list is endless concerning the Heretic Doctrine!

All you are doing is showing that you believe because you've read this same information regarding Darby that so many other attempt to use to circumvent the truth of the pre-tribulation gathering of the church.

We are not quoting Darby, but scripture. I did not get my information from Darby. You're like a broken record repeating existing false apologetics. You have no reasoning and no logic.

We would have to be students of Darby in order for your claim to have weight. When are you going to mention Mary MacDonald. That's another person who, like Darby, they continue to bring up.

If you and others want to go through God's wrath, let it be according to your faith. We on the other hand trust in the nature of God and His word, which will be to gather the church from the earth before He releases the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

 

[AandW]

Isn't it odd when we think since Christ's Ascension, we've had literally over 1750 years of Teachings from the Apostles, to the Church Fathers, throughout the recent histories past, and not one single teaching on Pre-Trib Rapture!

Then a little under 200 years ago, a man booted for Heresy in Ireland and Europe found his way to America and created a False Doctrine that for almost 1800 years since Christ Himself [WAS NEVER] taught!

And you literally are falling head over heels to be the biggest [sucker] to believe something NO ONE else taught because they knew it was HERESY!

 

[AandW]

All you are doing is showing that you believe because you've read this same information regarding Darby that so many other attempt to use to circumvent the truth of the pre-tribulation gathering of the church.

We are not quoting Darby, but scripture. I did not get my information from Darby. You're like a broken record repeating existing false apologetics. You have no reasoning and no logic.

We would have to be students of Darby in order for your claim to have weight. When are you going to mention Mary MacDonald. That's another person who, like Darby, they continue to bring up.

If you and others want to go through God's wrath, let it be according to your faith. We on the other hand trust in the nature of God and His word, which will be to gather the church from the earth before He releases the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

Isn't it odd when we think since Christ's Ascension, we've had literally over 1750 years of Teachings from the Apostles, to the Church Fathers, throughout the recent histories past, and not one single teaching on Pre-Trib Rapture!

Then a little under 200 years ago, a man booted for Heresy in Ireland and Europe found his way to America and created a False Doctrine that for almost 1800 years since Christ Himself [WAS NEVER] taught!

And you literally are falling head over heels to be the biggest [sucker] to believe something NO ONE else taught because they knew it was HERESY!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Isn't it odd when we think since Christ's Ascension, we've had literally over 1750 years of Teachings from the Apostles, to the Church Fathers, throughout the recent histories past, and not one single teaching on Pre-Trib Rapture!

Says you! We have been showing you the scriptures which teach a pre-tribulation gathering and why, but your not understanding or believing.

The a little under 200 years ago, a man booted for Heresy in Ireland and Europe found his way to America and created a False doctrine that for almost 1800 years since Christ himself [WAS NEVER] taught!

We don't base our findings on Darby, MacDonald or any of those other people, but on scripture, which you reject.

And you literally are falling head over heels to be the biggest [sucker] to believe something NO ONE else taught because they knew it was HERESY!

We have given you the information, not from any of the teachings of men, but from God's word. I'm in good company anyway, because they said the same things about Paul, that his teachings were from the teachings of men and now here you are.

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, then our hearts would certainly be troubled

"Therefore encourage one another with these words."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, then we could not encourage each other with that information. In fact, by your belief and teaching you are doing the opposite, i.e. not encouraging us with those words.

"as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, there would be no blessed hope, because we would be going through the wrath of God same as the wicked. You will be held accountable for these teaching. For you are not comforting anyone, but are making them fearful.

Basically your message is: "The good news is that you have forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. The bad news is, God is still going to punish you by putting you through His wrath, sorry!"

 

[AandW]

Says you! We have been showing you the scriptures which teach a pre-tribulation gathering and why, but your not understanding or believing.



We don't base our findings on Darby, MacDonald or any of those other people, but on scripture, which you reject.



We have given you the information, not from any of the teachings of men, but from God's word. I'm in good company anyway, because they said the same things about Paul, that his teachings were from the teachings of men and now here you are.

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, then our hearts would certainly be troubled

"Therefore encourage one another with these words."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, then we could not encourage each other with that information. In fact, by your belief and teaching you are doing the opposite, i.e. not encouraging us with those words.

"as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."

If the church were to go through God's wrath, there would be no blessed hope, because we would be going through the wrath of God same as the wicked. You will be held accountable for these teaching. For you are not comforting anyone, but are making them fearful.

Basically your message is: "The good news is that you have forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. The bad news is, God is still going to punish you by putting you through His wrath, sorry!"

You've shown Scripture that [absolutely] proves Revelation 16:15, we WON'T suffer God's WRATH but as Verse 15 proves, we still go through the Tribulation!

 

[AandW]

Christ said HE returns ONE MORE TIME!
Pre-Trib Rapture claims God was a LIAR because He is sneaking in a 3rd trip back to Earth!