Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Matthew 24:30 states similar thing Christ gathers His Elect. But it claims in the Verse prior (29) it happens Immediately AFTER Tribulation.
The Matthew 24:29-31 context is parallel with Isaiah 27:9[/Rom11:27],12-13... at "GREAT trumpet" when AFTER the Trib yrs the believing remnant of Israel will be gathered (by angels "HE SHALL SEND" to do so)--"gather ye ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel"...and "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM" (i.e. to another place ON THE EARTH; notice the similar language to that found in Neh1:8b-9... referring to: [from] where they've been "SCATTERED"--this is NOT a context referring to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [nor to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"--when WE are "caught up TOGETHER" i.e. "AS ONE" / the "ONE BODY" in ONE SNATCH-ACTION])

Revelation 16:15 confirms both Paul and Christ's claim:
Verses 1-14 explain all of the Wrath of God is fulfilled and afterwards:
15 Behold, I come as a thief: blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, that he may not walk naked, and that men may not see his shame.

So it is clearly on Earth.
I agree this is a "Second Coming to the earth" CONTEXT (i.e. in anticipation of it); Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5... at [what we commonly call] His Second Coming to the earth time-slot.

Verse 15 explains to keep watch for Christs Return and speaks of SHAME. There is no watching for Christ to return in HEAVEN nor is their SHAME. Both excellent pointers to conclude all of this is talking about Believers on Earth during the Tribulation and WRATH of God to keep WATCH for Christ.
I agree. Believers on the earth at that time (those having come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" event, as I've said).

Second Coming TO THE EARTH point in time, i.e. Armageddon time-slot (not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot / event / CONTEXT).


[note: there is NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanying this, when it speaks of JESUS HIMSELF)
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
de-emerald said:
There been many accounts of Gods wrath allready, and by all acounts Gods chidlren where apart of that to, the ot saints that where raised from the grave would have been apart of them periods,

mathew 27:51-52
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

sodom and gomorrah, Gods fire raining down on earth, will be the same in end times wrath to.

10 plagues of egypt, will be the same in end time wrath for plagues

The flood wiped out most people, will be the same in end times to many people will be wiped out but not by a flood

God forcing the isrealite to wonder the desert for 40 years because they disobeyed,

moses never got the chance to enter the land of promise because he struck the rock in anger instead of speaking to it.

God punishing davids children for the sins he commited

42 people mauled by bears because they teased elijah

God sends a plague that killed 24000 people, after the people of isrealy people dont get the message not to worship false Gods.

all the battles that took place with the 12 tribes of isreal, many people killed by the sword. of both sides. Gods children and the enemy.

I knows theres more of acts of Gods wrath, but of the top of my head thats as much as i can remember. but its fare to say that Gods children where present during all these acts of wrath, and theese acts of wrath will more or less going to be the same in end time wrath.

As you can see many of theese events of Gods wrath are in diffrent time periods. So tribulation is nothing new.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
Thats a good explanation i suppose, so they where resurrected to recieve the first fruits, just like any one alive today in Jesus recieve the first fruits and die with them.
No, that is not what I said. The reference to "first fruits" is referring to those who are resurrected in the 'immortal and glorified bodies.' Of these Jesus was the first fruits of those who rise from the dead in their immortal and glorified bodies. Neither Lazarus nor those who came out of the tombs, were resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies. They died again. So none of them belong to the first fruits. To be clear, so far Jesus is the only one who has died and has been resurrected immortal and glorified. The next group to be resurrected and receive their immortal and glorified bodies will be the church, which is our blessed hope and is what Paul told us to comfort each other about. The resurrection believers within the church and the living being changed and caught up, is the next prophetic event to take place.

When the lord returns for the thousand years of his reign on current earth, many people will be born in to a world of tribulation, which really is not much different today. a thousand years is a long time and many will be born repopulate at that time. its seems like a never ending cycle of today.
The thousand years will not be a time of tribulation, but of world-wide peace. The following scripture pertains to some of the characteristics of the millennial kingdom:

===============================================================
The wolf will live with the lamb,

the leopard will lie down with the goat,

the calf and the lion and the yearling a together;

and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear,

their young will lie down together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play near the cobra’s den,

and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all my holy mountain,

for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord

as the waters cover the sea. -
Isaiah 11:6-9
=====================================================================

In the above scripture, during the millennial kingdom, Prey and predator animals and their young, will lie down together.

The Lion will eat straw like the Ox

A young child will be able to put his hand in a Viper's nest and not be hurt. These all speak of world-wide peace because the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth.

The world of tribulation, i herd an explanation once that went something like this, i wonder if we have been here before all ready and we keep getting reincarnated untill we get it right. this could be the reason why we're not to suppose to know, when the rapture is to happen, you know like if everyone thought oh its ok if i get this life wrong, god will reincarnate me again and again, untill i do get it right, as the truth is the holy spirit is pure, and doesnt want anyone to perish for the whole of eternity. it sounds like something the enemy would say to encouarge people to do wrong (temptation) and i wonder how many have fell for that temptation, like if you want to experince getting high on drugs or the pleasures of adultery, its ok you will get reincarnated, the holy spirit is only putting fear into that youll go to hell if you do, the holy spiirt doesnt really mean youll go to hell for wrong doing you can even go and rob aload of money and rock and roll on drugs you will still be reincarnated.
personally i think never ending tribulation is a reality, at present but maybe not as bad as the great tribulation to come. and the enemy is trying to steal souls. if we obey the lord we will be fine. if we fall for temptation we may not.
Here's what God's word has to say regarding the idea of reincarnation:

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.

The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual.

So, what the scripture above is saying is that the natural, i.e. this physical life in the flesh is first, then afterwards the spiritual, i.e. our immortal and glorified bodies. Therefore, there is no cycle of being born and dying over and over. Regarding this idea scripture also states that "today is the day of salvation" meaning that it is while a person is alive that they have opportunity to be saved. Jesus also said the following "Man is once to die, then comes the judgment." It is during this life-time that we have the opportunity for salvation. If we die in our sins our record is sealed and the opportunity for salvation is off the table. Read the information in Luke 16:19-31 regarding the rich man and Lazarus who died with their spirits going into Hades. The rich man died and his record was sealed. He could not obtain salvation after his death nor could he warn anyone.

By the way, a person doesn't have to do any of those things such as rob a load of money or do drugs, etc. in order to be condemned. Everyone who comes into the world is already condemned because of sin. So a person doesn't have to do anything to go to Hell because they are already headed there. It is only through faith in Christ that one can get off that road and be reconciled to God
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
de-emerald said:
There been many accounts of Gods wrath allready, and by all acounts Gods chidlren where apart of that to, the ot saints that where raised from the grave would have been apart of them periods,

mathew 27:51-52
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.



sodom and gomorrah, Gods fire raining down on earth, will be the same in end times wrath to.

10 plagues of egypt, will be the same in end time wrath for plagues

The flood wiped out most people, will be the same in end times to many people will be wiped out but not by a flood

God forcing the isrealite to wonder the desert for 40 years because they disobeyed,

moses never got the chance to enter the land promise because he struck the rock in anger instead of speaking to it.

God punishing davids children for the sins he commited

42 people mauled by bears because they teased elijah

God sends a plague that killed 24000 people, after the people of isrealy people dont get the message not to worship false Gods.

all the battles that took place with the 12 tribes of isreal, many people killed by the sword. of both sides. Gods children andthe enemy.

I knows theres more of acts of Gods wrath, but of the top of my head thats as much as i can remember. but its fare to say that Gods children where present during all these acts of wrath, and theese acts of wrath will more or less going to be the same in end time wrath.

As you can see many of theese events of Gods wrath are in diffrent time periods. So tribulation is nothing new.
God pulled the righteous out of Sodom - you are arguing for me
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
God pulled the righteous out of Sodom - you are arguing for me
You asked for event of Gods wrath where his chidlren where present i gave you them, the fact that he pulled them out in sodom and gomorah is irelevent, Gods children where present. and one of those children who looked back got turned to a pillar of salt. how about answering the other events i mentioned and agreeing that Gods children where present in all of them. ?
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
You asked for event of Gods wrath where his chidlren where present i gave you them, the fact that he pulled them out in sodom and gomorah is irelevent, Gods children where present. and one of those children who looked back got turned to a pillar of salt. how about answering the other events i mentioned and agreeing that Gods children where present in all of them. ?
You need to listen and not try and teach
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
The thousand years will not be a time of tribulation, but of world-wide peace. The following scripture pertains to some of the characteristics of the millennial kingdom:

===============================================================
your words What happens after the Tribulation - After the tribulation, the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom on this earth. He will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The wicked will be killed by the double-edge sword which proceeds form the Lord's mouth. do you know how long that lasts for ?

after the 1000 year reign of christ satan will be released and decieve many then God will reign fire down on them all.

this does look like more tribulation to me.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
No, that is not what I said. The reference to "first fruits" is referring to those who are resurrected in the 'immortal and glorified bodies.' Of these Jesus was the first fruits of those who rise from the dead in their immortal and glorified bodies. Neither Lazarus nor those who came out of the tombs, were resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies. They died again. So none of them belong to the first fruits. To be clear, so far Jesus is the only one who has died and has been resurrected immortal and glorified. The next group to be resurrected and receive their immortal and glorified bodies will be the church, which is our blessed hope and is what Paul told us to comfort each other about. The resurrection believers within the church and the living being changed and caught up, is the next prophetic event to take place.
so no one recieves the first fruits untill there ressurected in end times ?. exactly what was the reason the ot saints where resurected from the grave only to be put back to sleep. ? what was the reason for it. did they recieve anything ?
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
It's placement of time.

Now watch how parallel these Verses actually are.


15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Thessalonians explains We will [[REMAIN]] until (The COMING) of the Lord. The Coming has always been known as the Second Coming.
Thessalonians explains when the Coming of the Lord happens, we are Caught Up with Christ into the CLOUDS.


Now look at Matthew 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew, just like Thessalonians, claims Christ Comes in the CLOUDS and gathers the Elect [or as Paul claims THOSE of us WHO ((REMAIN))].

So Matthew 24 and Thessalonians explains at the Coming of the Lord [the SECOND COMING] Christ will be gather us who REMAIN into the CLOUDS. So Paul verifies Christ in Matthew 24.


But when does this happen?
Revelation 16:15 tells us [AFTER] the WRATH of God is complete and Christ tells us in Matthew 24:29 IMMEDIATELY after the Tribulation.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


So Paul confirms Christ at His Second Coming comes and gathers us into the CLOUDS.
And Christ confirms to John in Revelation it happens after the WRATH of God or the Tribulation IMMEDIATELY Ends!
yup there is a valid argument here for ther not being a pretrib rapture.
 
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
The Matthew 24:29-31 context is parallel with Isaiah 27:9[/Rom11:27],12-13... at "GREAT trumpet" when AFTER the Trib yrs the believing remnant of Israel will be gathered (by angels "HE SHALL SEND" to do so)--"gather ye ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel"...and "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM" (i.e. to another place ON THE EARTH; notice the similar language to that found in Neh1:8b-9... referring to: [from] where they've been "SCATTERED"--this is NOT a context referring to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [nor to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"--when WE are "caught up TOGETHER" i.e. "AS ONE" / the "ONE BODY" in ONE SNATCH-ACTION])



I agree this is a "Second Coming to the earth" CONTEXT (i.e. in anticipation of it); Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5... at [what we commonly call] His Second Coming to the earth time-slot.



I agree. Believers on the earth at that time (those having come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" event, as I've said).

Second Coming TO THE EARTH point in time, i.e. Armageddon time-slot (not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot / event / CONTEXT).


[note: there is NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanying this, when it speaks of JESUS HIMSELF)
But like these Verses prove, AFTER the Tribulation, there are literally NO SCRIPTURES proving a pre-trib rapture other than what pre-trib followers of the heretic Darby [WANT TO SEE].

Wanting to [[[[[SEE]]]]] a Verse means pre-trib [is not] the same as Verses that come out blatantly and state the Second coming.


The pre-trib uses coming in the CLOUDS, but the [ONLY VERSES] to use coming in the clouds is the Second Coming. So, you have to literally [ignore] the Second Coming for a make believe pre-trib Rapture.

Why are you believing in a MYTH that does not exist at all in the Bible?
 
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
God pulled the righteous out of Sodom - you are arguing for me
God [only] removed Lot because Abraham asked God to do so!

Had Abraham not interceded, Lot would have died in Sodom!

That is just a FACT!

No one from the Bible is asking God to remove us from our coming Tribulation!
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
The Church is most certainly not present for the Wrath of the Lord
Amen!
You should be helping the beginners.
Precious friend, this depends what type of beginners they are; ie: have they gotten past the Confusion of the beginner's class on "milk" like water baptism,
sign gifts, healings or GRACE for infirmities/tribulations, etc. IF NOT, how do
expect them to digest the {not for babies?} MEAT of end-times eschatology?:
Wow you are making progress. I would read everything TDW and Ahwatukee is writing.....and get back on the right track. The spatial and temporal differences between the Rapture and the SC are there for everyone to see. You just need to take your blinders off.
Will try to share some of my "beginners' findings" below, but may "run into this"?:
You need to listen and not try and teach
Remember, just sharing, Not teaching {Since that Is God's Work}, what I have
found, Comparing Scriptures (1 Corinthians 2:13 KJB!), for Encouragement and
Edification - IF I may:

Distinctions Between Pre-TOJT “Mystery” Great GRACE Departure | Rightly
Divided From | The Second “Prophesied” Coming:


LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee For Thy Divine Understanding In This
Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4 : 18!)


Time Of JACOB’s Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming,
is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose FROM
“the foundation of the world” (Matthew 25 : 34)

God's Purpose prophesied “since the world began”
(Luke 1 : 68-70; Acts 3 : 21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Great GRACE Departure! Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:


God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE
Of God! { Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)


God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose BEFORE “the foundation of
the world” (Ephesians 1 : 4; 2 Timothy 1 : 9!)


God's Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16 : 25; Ephesians 1 : 4-11, 3 : 5-9!)

---------------------------------------------------------

The SECOND Coming, According to “Prophecy:”

(1) CHRIST, In His “Prophesied” Second Advent, As KING Of kings,
And LORD Of lords, Is Coming From Heaven!
(Revelation 19 : 16, 11)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On HIS Head,
And A Sword In HIS Mouth! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven),
HIS armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19 : 12-15)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(1)
CHRIST, As Head Of HIS Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven!
(Ephesians 1 : 19-23; Colossians 1 : 18; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)


(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4 : 16!)


3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With HIM (those who Were With
HIM In
Heaven), “part” Of HIS Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5 : 8; Philippians 1 : 21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The SECOND Coming, According to “Earthly Prophecy:”

(4) Immediately AFTER tribulation/4 "signs," CHRIST Is Coming To
“earth” In Order To: Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 24 : 29; Revelation 19 : 11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares” First And they are “taken Out”
of the “kingdom” to be cast into the furnace of fire!
(Matthew 24 : 30, 13 : 30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew 24 : 31; Mark 13 : 27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man,
The King! (Matthew 25 : 31-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly Mystery!”:

(4) CHRIST Will Resurrect those asleep First, and Then, we
“which are alive and remain,” (which was A MYSTERY!), will be
“changed/all incorruptible, And Caught
Up” together to
meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4 : 16-17; 1 Corinthians 15 : 52-53!)


(5)
CHRIST “Gathers HIS Body To HIMSELF" to Take them To
Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2 : 1-3; 1 Corinthians 15 : 49;
2 Corinthians 12 : 2, 5 : 1-2; Ephesians 1 : 3, 20, 2 : 6;
Philippians 3 : 20; 2 Timothy 4 : 18!)


6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head HIMSELF!
(Romans 2 : 6, 16, 14 : 10-12; 1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15, 4 : 5, 6 : 20;
2 Corinthians 5 : 10; Ephesians 6 : 8; Colossians 3 : 24-25!)


* Bonus question for All prophecy Experts, in the Next Post...

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
* Bonus question for All prophecy Experts,
Precious friend(s), please explain the following CHANGE!:

Rev_19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Why?:

Rev_19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.

Perchance, on the way, were ONE "of the ARMIES {Body Of CHRIST?}" assigned
their Heavenly positions of reigning and rulership, "vacated" by the fallen angels?

Thanks for reviewing...
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
The pre-trib uses coming in the CLOUDS, but the [ONLY VERSES] to use coming in the clouds is the Second Coming.
It seems to me a cloud or clouds accompanies any time He's comin' or goin'... lol

What do you think the following verses represent? His "Second Coming"? (since "cloud / clouds" is mentioned):

1) Dan 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

[does this sound, to you, like His Second Coming to the earth / RETURN to the earth time-slot?? (Rev19)]


2) Act 1:9
¶ And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
( @OldSage ) I have a question, but this question is not related to the topic of this thread, and anyone who knows can respond... awhile ago when I was logged in and ready to type out my post (I do not recall WHICH THREAD I was in), somehow I accidentally hit the "REPORT" button on the post immediately above mine (I think it was OldSage's post).

But I am unaware if just CLICKING it (and it was purely an accident) actually DOES anything (like just CLICKING on it actually does the "reporting" action), or whether one would have to, like, be taken to a "form" to enter a "complaint" (like, at a second action, aside from CLICKING the "REPORT" button)...

Does anyone know??

Coz if my accidental clicking on the "REPORT" button actually DID a "report," I want him to know it was NOT ON PURPOSE!
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
God [only] removed Lot because Abraham asked God to do so!

Had Abraham not interceded, Lot would have died in Sodom!

That is just a FACT!

No one from the Bible is asking God to remove us from our coming Tribulation!
Its the same as passover to all of Gods children where told to put blood on there door, so that there first born where not harmed, what would have happend if they didnt, but any how thats beside the point the fact is during a time of Gods wrath they where still present on earth. which is valid for end time wrath to. because some of the arguments is God will not have his church present in time of wrath. I can understand that but its not a valid argument for supporting pre trib rapture. I got into this dicussion a long time ago and made up my mind that pre trib rapture is a false teaching. It totaly messed my head up to be honest last time i got into it. and its starting to mess with my head again. so im going to bow out of this dicussion, If i was you i would bow out to its not a healthy discussion this one. Ive been doing a study on the soul and its far better to imagine your soul living in an eternal state of good mind.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
( @OldSage ) I have a question, but this question is not related to the topic of this thread, and anyone who knows can respond... awhile ago when I was logged in and ready to type out my post (I do not recall WHICH THREAD I was in), somehow I accidentally hit the "REPORT" button on the post immediately above mine (I think it was OldSage's post).

But I am unaware if just CLICKING it (and it was purely an accident) actually DOES anything (like just CLICKING on it actually does the "reporting" action), or whether one would have to, like, be taken to a "form" to enter a "complaint" (like, at a second action, aside from CLICKING the "REPORT" button)...

Does anyone know??

Coz if my accidental clicking on the "REPORT" button actually DID a "report," I want him to know it was NOT ON PURPOSE!
WELCOME to "humanity" making mistakes. I believe your "accident" may be ignored if you DID NOT "fill in the Reason For the Report" box.
BUT, humanly speaking, I Could be mistaken ;)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
But like these Verses prove, AFTER the Tribulation, there are literally NO SCRIPTURES proving a pre-trib rapture other than what pre-trib followers of the heretic Darby [WANT TO SEE].

Wanting to [[[[[SEE]]]]] a Verse means pre-trib [is not] the same as Verses that come out blatantly and state the Second coming.


The pre-trib uses coming in the CLOUDS, but the [ONLY VERSES] to use coming in the clouds is the Second Coming. So, you have to literally [ignore] the Second Coming for a make believe pre-trib Rapture.

Why are you believing in a MYTH that does not exist at all in the Bible?
..............:whistle:............
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
( @OldSage ) I have a question, but this question is not related to the topic of this thread, and anyone who knows can respond... awhile ago when I was logged in and ready to type out my post (I do not recall WHICH THREAD I was in), somehow I accidentally hit the "REPORT" button on the post immediately above mine (I think it was OldSage's post).

But I am unaware if just CLICKING it (and it was purely an accident) actually DOES anything (like just CLICKING on it actually does the "reporting" action), or whether one would have to, like, be taken to a "form" to enter a "complaint" (like, at a second action, aside from CLICKING the "REPORT" button)...

Does anyone know??

Coz if my accidental clicking on the "REPORT" button actually DID a "report," I want him to know it was NOT ON PURPOSE!
Nope. You need to also hit the report button on the popup.