Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

[Kidron]

I agree that it is important to know history and who scripture is speaking to to understand scripture, but I do not agree that some scripture is simply does not apply to "you" because it is not talking to "you". Scripture tells us every word the Lord speaks is truth, and that truth is for us.
If you repent of murder so your will is not to murder any more, you can be saved spiritually and live in mansions in heaven, but you must face civil courts in regard to the murder. If you live in repentance then you live as a person who does not murder.

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"""""""""""I agree that it is important to know history and who scripture is speaking to to understand scripture, but I do not agree that some scripture is simply does not apply to "you" because it is not talking to "you". Scripture tells us every word the Lord speaks is truth, and that truth is for us. """""""""""

In the NT verses you find :

1. Allegory
2. Symbolic
3. Parable
4. Literal.

When a person does not recognize that the first 3, are not LITERAL, then they read a symbolic verse, or a verse that is an allegory and they take it literally. That is how a person "wrongly divides" the word and that creates heretics and denominations.

All scripture is given for "Instruction, doctrine, reproof, correction.....ect.
But, not every verse is each of those......and not every verse is aimed at the believer.
Paul once told a male Witch that "you will be blind for a season", and the man went blind.
So, is that verse for me, and you?
Just an example.




"""""""" If you repent of murder so your will is not to murder any more, you can be saved spiritually and live in mansions in heaven, but you must face civil courts in regard to the murder. If you live in repentance then you live as a person who does not murder."""""

We are not told in any verse in the New Testament to "live in repentance".
To LIVE in it?
That is not a New Testament verse or concept.
Are you a Catholic?

So, we are to exist in our faith and in our renewed mind as a SON OF GOD, "made righteous" by the blood of Jesus., as born again.
The born again, are the redeemed....... Our sin is on Christ and His Righteousness is become OURS, as if we have never sinned..
This is "the gift of salvation"< and "the Gift of Righteousness".
The born again, are not "saved sinners", we are SON's OF GOD......
Does that sound like a sinner?
We are "Made Righteous"......does that sound like we need to live a life of repenting?

 

[Jackson123]

I agree that it is important to know history and who scripture is speaking to to understand scripture, but I do not agree that some scripture is simply does not apply to "you" because it is not talking to "you". Scripture tells us every word the Lord speaks is truth, and that truth is for us.
If you repent of murder so your will is not to murder any more, you can be saved spiritually and live in mansions in heaven, but you must face civil courts in regard to the murder. If you live in repentance then you live as a person who does not murder.

Repent is needed am I correct?

 

[JerryInBoston]

Jesus said: John 14:15:-24. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. ... “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me."

 

[Jackson123]

Jesus said: John 14:15:-24. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. ... “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me."

Love Jesus = keep His command not murder
hate Jesus not save

 

[Kidron]

Jesus said: John 14:15:-24. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

And if you keep commandments and are not born again, you will die and go to hell like a bullet.

Jesus said...>"you must be born again".
see that?
There is your commandment that once completed, gains you heaven.
The rest is just works.

 

[JerryInBoston]

And if you keep commandments and are not born again, you will die and go to hell like a bullet.

Jesus said...>"you must be born again".
see that?
There is your commandment that once completed, gains you heaven.
The rest is just works.

If you love Jesus, you will obey His command to be born again, and once you are born again you will be obedient to all he has commanded.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Love Jesus = keep His command not murder
hate Jesus not save

Believe all that Jesus said.

 

[Kidron]

If you love Jesus, you will obey His command to be born again, and once you are born again you will be obedient to all he has commanded.

Not to stay saved.

In John 15, Jesus said that if you keep his commands you are His "friend".
In John 8 Jesus said if you keep my commandments you are my "disciple">

Notice what He leaves out?

Its this...

"Son of God".

 

[Oblio]

I am not saved by what I do or do not do. I am saved because I believe, aka faith, which is a gift to me from God. If I could've lost my salvation through my disobedience, I would've lost it long ago. My disobedience will bring discipline from my Father, but He will not cut me off. He loves me. He is faithful to me. As a response, I desire to love Him and I desire to be faithful to Him. He is worthy!

 

[JerryInBoston]

Not to stay saved.

In John 15, Jesus said that if you keep his commands you are His "friend".
In John 8 Jesus said if you keep my commandments you are my "disciple">

Notice what He leaves out?

Its this...

"Son of God".

Because you are saved, you will keep His commands.

 

[Blik]

Repent is needed am I correct?

That is what Christ told us, we must repent.

 

[Blik]

Because you are saved, you will keep His commands.

I think along with being saved we are given the holy spirit, but I believe it is always our choice to listen to the holy spirit or not to listen. We never become like robots, we always are human.

 

[Jackson123]

I am not saved by what I do or do not do. I am saved because I believe, aka faith, which is a gift to me from God. If I could've lost my salvation through my disobedience, I would've lost it long ago. My disobedience will bring discipline from my Father, but He will not cut me off. He loves me. He is faithful to me. As a response, I desire to love Him and I desire to be faithful to Him. He is worthy!

Believe is verb so believe is what you do believe Jesus is believe His teaching

 

[Jackson123]

Believe is verb so believe is what you do believe Jesus is believe His teaching

Noah save because he believe and do build an arch it is thousand hours of work

 

[JerryInBoston]

I think along with being saved we are given the holy spirit, but I believe it is always our choice to listen to the holy spirit or not to listen. We never become like robots, we always are human.

We all have a fallen human nature, but when we are saved we are convicted. That conviction brings us closer to Christ. The closer we get to Christ, the more we follow His commands. If you aren't convicted to be more conformed to the nature of Jesus Christ, then the question is: are you're truly saved.

 

[Jackson123]

We all have a fallen human nature, but when we are saved we are convicted. That conviction brings us closer to Christ. The closer we get to Christ, the more we follow His commands. If you aren't convicted to be more conformed to the nature of Jesus Christ, then the question is: are you're truly saved.

Yep no body perfect but if killer not repent he will not inherit kG

 

[mailmandan]

Believe is verb so believe is what you do believe Jesus is believe His teaching

If believe was defined as "what we do," then we would be saved by "what we do/works" and not simply by believing in Christ for salvation. The greek word for believe is "pisteuo" and is defined - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4100/kjv/tr/0-1/

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him to save you. Although this belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful -- Matthew 13:23) the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

 

[mailmandan]

Noah save because he believe and do build an arch it is thousand hours of work

By building the ark Noah saved himself and his family from drowning (Hebrews 11:7) yet Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it.

 

[Hakawaka]

IMO:

No, obedience is not necessary for salvation. The Third Chapter of John gives us the formula for salvation:

14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Obedience is a "fruit" of Salvation, or, it should be. Obedience to God/Jesus is necessary to remain in good standing or fellowship with God/Jesus. You might find it odd I would say these things considering I am the one who came up with Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity. More than a few had problems with this calling it "works Salvation," which, of course, it is not. It is OBEYING God/Jesus, which is a FRUIT of Salvation.

Jesus spoke of this quite clearly:

Matthew, Chapter 24:

10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Now, those that do not believe in "free will", or believe in "OSAS", will not believe that remaining obedient to God/Jesus throughout our lives is necessary. That is certainly their right. I believe in free will and in the need to walk obediently in this life to ensure our eternal reward promised by God/Jesus. From time to time, we will slip and find ourselves guilty of sinning. However this "sin of omission" does not mean we will lose our salvation. We are still children of God. But it does mean we must ask God for forgiveness and strive to continue to walk in obedience. We are human. As such, we are not perfect, and that is why God brought "saving grace" to earth for all mankind who will believe in and call upon the Name of Jesus.

Jesus taught us to ask for the forgiveness of our trespasses every time we pray. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

This does not mean Jesus will be "crucified" again. His crucifixion was ONCE for ALL TIME. His precious blood remains there available to all who need to be washed clean regardless of the number of times they stumble and fall.

(my thoughts)

What is your view on Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26?

 

[Hakawaka]

By building the ark Noah saved himself and his family from drowning (Hebrews 11:7) yet Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it.

What would of happened if Noah had disobeyed? His family would of perished

Obedience is not automatic, that is why the Bible commands us over and over again from cover to cover to obey and warns against disobedience. It wouldnt do so if it was a guarantee.