accepting Jesus

[Pilgrimshope]

[

Sorry to butt in, butt Jesus is the way, the teachings. You miss the boat if he does not point you onto God after that. The new testament points to the old testament, that people did not get. Jesus was the metaphysical creation of God, him showing us the test of faith to the max, and why it is worth such pain and torment. In the figure of Jesus, God showed you how to endure pain, no matter how painful, to point you to heaven, and seek God. People masy disagree, and tell me I am wrong, but this is how I understand it.

We have some issues, Jesus is the third most prayed to person in the bible, maria and one other before him, so this seems like people are afraid of direct adress. Jesus should be at nr 1, if that is how people feel. But for me, who is new, God is nr 1. Jesus is God incarnate, and points to God. God is Jesus, but his name is God. Go to the source, not through others. Ask God for help if you need help, testify to God if you testify, no proxies. Unless you have some very important figures in the book, that speaks to you. Do not be afraid to do the direct routhe. Scripture I have read, tells me that I must seek God, and do it honestly with him. I believe I am understanding it correct, but do not know for sure. But when I will pray, I will pray directly to God. I might ask for guidence and strength from apostles and saints, but my first prayer will be to God.

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the name is Jesus that we’ve been given access to the father

God manifest the name he kept hidden when they asked him in the ot “ what’s your name ? I am that I am ….what’s your name asked Jacob “ why are you asking my name Jacob ? What’s your name asked mankind “ I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob “

and then Christ came and the name of God was manifest in him when we pray there’s only one mediation that reaches God , it is the name of Jesus Christ , God in the flesh of man to mediate for man to God there’s no other name The Bible gives us to pray in

“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:13-15,

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this isn’t saying Jesus eas not God , he’s saying the only mediator for man to God is God when he was in the form of man he is both father and son and he’s working to make this true by his spirit

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father,

and ye in me,

and I in you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he is the father , we are the sons , and he took our place on the cross to make it all possible

we have to stick with this name because of the promises he made d all the prophets foretold of immanuel

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you receive Jesus as Lord before or after being saved?

According to Scripture, salvation is based upon receiving Christ at Lord as the outset.
ROMANS 10: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We see here that within five verses "Lord" occurs three times in connection with salvation. Paul could have said just "Jesus" but he did not do so, since he is also the one who said "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31).

The reason this critical is that when the Gospel is preached, the Lordship of Christ over the universe and over every believer must be clearly proclaimed. He is no longer "Jesus of Nazareth" nor is He simply "the Messiah" (as some modern versions show). Christ is now shown to ne "the Lord Jesus Christ" because all power and authority in Heaven and on earth has been handed to Him (Mt 28:18). The resurrection of Christ established Him as Lord over all things and all men. So the sinner must receive Jesus as BOTH Lord and Christ, and Peter made this crystal clear on the day of Pentecost in AD 30.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [and all the world] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

According to Scripture, salvation is based upon receiving Christ at Lord as the outset.
ROMANS 10: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We see here that within five verses "Lord" occurs three times in connection with salvation. Paul could have said just "Jesus" but he did not do so, since he is also the one who said "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31).

The reason this critical is that when the Gospel is preached, the Lordship of Christ over the universe and over every believer must be clearly proclaimed. He is no longer "Jesus of Nazareth" nor is He simply "the Messiah" (as some modern versions show). Christ is now shown to ne "the Lord Jesus Christ" because all power and authority in Heaven and on earth has been handed to Him (Mt 28:18). The resurrection of Christ established Him as Lord over all things and all men. So the sinner must receive Jesus as BOTH Lord and Christ, and Peter made this crystal clear on the day of Pentecost in AD 30.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [and all the world] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

Amen and lord translates also to high priest in the order of melchezidek ( 430 years before the levites of the law )
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭14:18‬ ‭


“So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2, 4-6‬ ‭


‬‬

 

[Kidron]

Religion versus the born again.

Yes.

 

[Kidron]

Thank you very much, nice and encouraging, but I am orthodox of some sorts, so that is not enough for me.

Jesus dying on the Cross, is not enough for you?

Well, He is for the born again.

 

[Kidron]

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

If you are confessing sin, for years and years, then you are a failed discipleship.
God does not save you so that you can live the rest of your life confessing sin, trying to keep from going to hell as your cult teaches.

And i'll tell you again......
If you HAVE sin, if you HAVE IT.....= then that means you are not forgiven........You are not born again. You are just water baptized playing a religious game with yourself...
Listen, You can't go to heaven and "have sin",..... as there is no sin found where God exists..
This is why He came here....>He came here to make us "the righteousness of God in Christ", and that is to be born again Spiritually as "made righteous".

 

[mindfulzen]

I don’t understand your post completely but if I am understanding correctly , do you pray to the apostles and saints but first pray to God and then the apostles and saints?

I do not pray yet. I have much to learn first. Started reading the bible some months ago, started studying some verses that modern day apostles and priests pointed to the beginning of the year. This is just my understanding, can pray to apostles and saints if I want/need it, but I must wait till later, if I want to pray to God. After I beg forgiveness, and ask to join, and never ever again sin. You might think differently, this is just what I get out of the verses I have covered and discussed with others who have helped me out..

 

[mindfulzen]

Jesus dying on the Cross, is not enough for you?

Well, He is for the born again.

I stated pretty clearly, that Jesus dyingg on the cross is enough for me in abundance, on Gods end. But I have not done enough to receive the gift of eternal life yet. I have many months of study to do, perhaps years. And must walk on a narrow path a little longer. Doing it like 6 months, that is not enough. I need it to be a lasting thing first.

 

[Kidron]

But I have not done enough to receive the gift of eternal life yet.

Notice that eternal life is a GIFT.

You dont earn a Gift.
You receive it.

Do you celebrate Christmas? Did you ever receive a Christmas Gift? Did you have to earn it?

Listen,
Christ died on the Cross for you, not because you earned it, but because of God love for you that offers this sacrifice for your sin, as "the GIFT of Salvation".

 

[mindfulzen]

Notice that eternal life is a GIFT.

You dont earn a Gift.
You receive it.

Do you celebrate Christmas? Did you ever receive a Christmas Gift? Did you have to earn it?

Listen,
Christ died on the Cross for you, not because you earned it, but because of God love for you that offers this sacrifice for your sin, as "the GIFT of Salvation".

This christmas will be the first one celebrated as a christian, with the correct focus. It has only been a familything in the past, without religion, and strained and akward gathering, with people who do not like eachothers. Forced to pretend to celebrate and enjoy spending time, for the old folks and the grandkids. I did give a gift to my father this christmas, but nobody else. I will not receive or give gifts this christmas. It will be about the gospels and Jesus birthday now. And you kind of have to earn christtmas gifts, you have to give to receive. And gifts is a bit weird among mom and dads family, we have tried to pool cash, and buy some bigger stuff for mom and dad, but the gifts are never purchased in time. So this christmas I had no faith in it, so I bought one gift for my father, and was a part of a gift for mother, that still have not been purchased or given to her. So I drop it now.She has not even gotten her birthdaypresent from almost a year ago. No more of that. Dads birthday was in april, his kids have not bought the present they "planned" yet. I wished him a happy birthday and said I do not give gifts anymore.

And I figure I must read to understand more, as a way of earning the gift. And at least celebrate one christian christmas in my life. Perhaps go to church on Jesus birthday, reading the bible a bit, stuff like that. And not be a part of a coop gift, that never is given, so it just becomes a lie. A true christmas. I liked easter celebrated the christian way.

 

[Kidron]

And I figure I must read to understand more, as a way of earning the gift. .

"the Gift"..........is Christ on the Cross.
How can you earn that?
You would have die on the Cross, to earn it.
He already did.
Now just rejoice that you have been given this GIFT of Salvation.


Here is what you might consider doing this next Christmas.
Bake a birthday cake, and sing...."happy birthday to Jesus".

 

[mindfulzen]

"the Gift"..........is Christ on the Cross.
How can you earn that?
You would have die on the Cross, to earn it.
He already did.
Now just rejoice that you have been given this GIFT of Salvation.


Here is what you might consider doing this next Christmas.
Bake a birthday cake, and sing...."happy birthday to Jesus".

By reading at least half the bible I figure, then understand after contemplating. I also need to get one relation in order first. Need to have a talk about a secular past of sin with said woman first, so she can move on. Then I can pray, if it feels ready. I am convinced that there must be peace in the relations on earth first, and total peace of mind. Pray with joy. And I also want to read ignatious and some others writings after the bible ends. I think they are important, and I have just read parts online, I cannot find those books in the bookstore here. I like to make informed choices.

 

[Kidron]

By reading at least half the bible I figure, then understand after contemplating. I also need to get one relation in order first. Need to have a talk about a secular past of sin with said woman first, so she can move on. Then I can pray, if it feels ready. I am convinced that there must be peace in the relations on earth first, and total peace of mind. Pray with joy. And I also want to read ignatious and some others writings after the bible ends. I think they are important, and I have just read parts online, I cannot find those books in the bookstore here. I like to make informed choices.

Just remember one thing, so that if you come across a LIAR who is a "famous Christian", you are not deceived by them.

Just remember this.

In Heaven there is NO SIN.
So, we have to become "as having no sin", so that we are ALLOWED by GOD, to go to heaven

On the CROSS, Jesus is taking care of ALL your sin, so that you can go to heaven.


That is "Salvation".

Its a "Gift".

 

[mindfulzen]

Just remember one thing, so that if you come across a LIAR who is a "famous Christian", you are not deceived by them.

Just remember this.

In Heaven there is NO SIN.
So, we have to become "as having no sin", so that we are ALLOWED by GOD, to go to heaven

On the CROSS, Jesus is taking care of ALL your sin, so that you can go to heaven.


That is "Salvation".

Its a "Gift".

Exactly. I must read for myself, and discuss with others, and know for myself. Cannot just listen to preachers, and different preachers say different things. How can we know, when preachers disagree, without personal effort? Do not want to jump the gun. And I agree that no sin enters heaven, otherwise it would cease to be heaven and become like earth. So I feel like I should be without sin for a period of time first. I was angry in january, so I wait. I also started out believing, believing I would go to hell, and had no problem with that. And that is a bad start.

 

[randyk]

Teaching that God requires a "commitment of you, to save you" = is a false gospel.
You should keep that heresy in your church and off of a public christian forum.

Do not turn the Grace of God into.."what i must commit to, before God will save me".

And do not twist a verse that says...>"count the cost"""', that does not refer to the Grace of God that is "the GIFT of Salvation".

The Gospel is *both* a commitment and a gift. If you say it is not a commitment, you are deceiving others. Everything about the Gospel is a call to commitment, to carry one's cross. To deny that is to deny what Jesus said.

You want to slur anything I say, whether it is biblical or not. You want to put an evil slant on it to slander me, to discredit me. In so doing you show your lack of love for a brother in Christ.

 

[randyk]

I was raised as a little atheist and never ever believed, never ever heard a thing about the bible at my parents house. So I found it on my own after around 40 years, without searching for it, as a socalled militant atheist. And as I understand it,

1. you start by believing, then you live it. That means stop sinning and living the truth. Then you lose anger, fear and doubts, once those emotions are cleansed. Seeker.

2. You are ready with a pure heart, to be marked by the holy spirit. Which I believe happened to me around february or march. Or thereabouts, perhaps april. Spirit.

3. And after that, I must pray for forgiveness, and ask to come along to heaven. So, I agree, that terms are blurred together. I think I have been given the spirit, but not granted the grace or salvation yet, because I have not asked for it. Grace/salvation.

Does this make sense for you? And there are many requirements I must meet, like reading the books first. Not sinning anymore. I must endure more "pain", and feel no anger or grief for it. And I must be perfect spiritually, knowledgably about scripture, and a totally pure heart, with only love. Otherwise I cannot go to step three. It is what we interpret it to I guess, and how literal we take it. .

Oh my goodness, it's a "light burden," brother! Don't let anybody tie you up in knots! It really doesn't matter when you get saved, just that you get saved. And you sound saved to me! A pure understanding of salvation begins *at* salvation. Don't think you're not saved already if you've already received it.

There are 2 stages in salvation--receiving it, and the resurrection. But you have your down payment on your future salvation when you initially receive it.

You will *never* be perfect as long as you live in the present flesh. But within you there is a spark of the Holy Spirit that ignites righteousness in your life. These things coexist, the flesh and its continuing desires and pride, and the righteousness of God's love. Our job is to let love grow, unhindered, until the flesh is under our feet. It will never go away until the resurrection. But we can water our spiritual life until our righteousness dominates in our life. That's the goal.

 

[randyk]

If you can't teach correct faith, then you dont understand it.
Thats you.

See, you have this idea that Jesus's blood and your behavior is a "partnership" ...... that when combined, = Born again.

Here is your false gospel,..........>"The Cross + my works, = "im saved".

That's heresy, as your LEGALISM continues to deny the finished work of Jesus as THE Blood Atonement, which is all God provides to redeem.
Jesus said "I AM THE WAY".......and your way is....."MY DEEDS ALSO".

You insist on framing my beliefs in an heretical way. Suit yourself--I've never said we contribute to our own atonement from sin. I've never said we helped Christ to bring about our own Salvation.

What I do insist on, however, is that we must accept Christ, receive Christ, obey Christ, and deny our flesh. We must take up our cross. Since you seem to deny we need to do anything, you make yourself guilty of libertinism. Being under no self-commitment you rule yourself out as a disciple. How then can you be experiencing Christ's salvation?

You are utterly unable to distinguish between Christ's work and our work. We don't work for our own salvation. But salvation, as defined, includes work that we must do in partnership with Christ. We must abide in the vine, or we are not part of the vine.

 

[HisKid]

The Gospel is *both* a commitment and a gift. If you say it is not a commitment, you are deceiving others. Everything about the Gospel is a call to commitment, to carry one's cross. To deny that is to deny what Jesus said.

You want to slur anything I say, whether it is biblical or not. You want to put an evil slant on it to slander me, to discredit me. In so doing you show your lack of love for a brother in Christ.

What does it mean to you to "carry your cross"?

 

[randyk]

What does it mean to you to "carry your cross"?

Just what it says. You commit yourself to living the same way Jesus did. With Jesus in our life we exhibit the same kind of good works he did, and so suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil.

 

[Kidron]

We must take up our cross.

You take up your cross after you are born again, and on your way to heaven.

That's discipleship.

See, the heresy, is.......""Christ saved me, and now after im saved, i have to DO THIS and DO THAT and KEEP THIS, and try not to do THAT, and if by all these DOs and DONT's, i succeed to the END, ......then i have kept myself Saved.........i hope".

See that CHRIST REJECTiON ?? = that is SELF SELF SELF SELF Effort being taught , in place of God's Grace.

Its clear as a BELL.

= Thats LEGALISM, .......and it REJECTS the CROSS and replaces it with : "what i have to do to STAY SAVED".

That is the Gospel of SELF SAVING, and that is the Devil's Gospel of WORKS.