2 Thessalonians 2:3—Rebellion or Apostasy?
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Let's try to bring this back to your original point of the thread. I agree with you. "Rebellion" is not a good word to use here. In english "rebellion", means to rebel or buck-up against something. Mankind, in their fallen state, have always been in rebellion against God. So this verse must mean something more immediate, something related to the end.
Other Bibles, not mentioned in your post, translated it this way:
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (ASV & RV).
2Th 2:3 let no man deceive you in any way: for that day will not come, unless the rebellion come first, and the man of lawlessness be revealed, the son of perdition, (RSV)
Marshall, renders it "apostacy" in the Nestle Greek text. Therefore, he gives it no expressed meaning but renders the word as is.
None of these translations do harm to the text but can we find the most common meaning in Scripture? A search of the Greek word and it's variants, turns up this information. The particular inflected form used here: ἀποστασία is only found in this verse. Other forms are found in 3 other verses. They are listed below in English then the Greek. The RED highlight, pairs the English with the Greek word. All English translations are KJV:
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat_19:7 λέγουσιν αὐτῷ· τί οὖν Μωσῆς ἐνετείλατο δοῦναι βιβλίον ἀποστασίου καὶ ἀπολῦσαι αὐτήν;
Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar_10:4 οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· ἐπέτρεψε Μωϋσῆς βιβλίον ἀποστασίου γράψαι καὶ ἀπολῦσαι.
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act_21:21 κατηχήθησαν δὲ περὶ σοῦ ὅτι ἀποστασίαν διδάσκεις ἀπὸ Μωϋσέως τοὺς κατὰ τὰ ἔθνη πάντας ᾿Ιουδαίους, λέγων μὴ περιτέμνειν αὐτοὺς τὰ τέκνα μηδὲ τοῖς ἔθεσι περιπατεῖν.
So now we can see, that the translators have used several different English words to express the meaning of: ἀποστάσιον.
However, one thing becomes clear, the primary meaning of this word is: "to separate from" or "to forsake". In Matthew and Mark, it is a separation of a husband from his wife. In Acts, it is the separation from a teaching of Moses.
Therefore, I would conclude, that here in second Thessalonians, the verse should read like this:
2Th 2:3 let no man deceive you in any way: for it will not be, except the separation come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (mine).
By interpretation, this verse means the separation from the Truth of God's Word to something that is a lie. This "separation" could be forced on one by heretical teaching or by that ones "forsaking" the Truth or both. But since this does not read well, grammatically, in English - I would stay with this version as best and closest to the meaning.
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (ASV & RV).
Thought you might enjoy this study. I know I did and thank you for bringing up the subject.
Other Bibles, not mentioned in your post, translated it this way:
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (ASV & RV).
2Th 2:3 let no man deceive you in any way: for that day will not come, unless the rebellion come first, and the man of lawlessness be revealed, the son of perdition, (RSV)
Marshall, renders it "apostacy" in the Nestle Greek text. Therefore, he gives it no expressed meaning but renders the word as is.
None of these translations do harm to the text but can we find the most common meaning in Scripture? A search of the Greek word and it's variants, turns up this information. The particular inflected form used here: ἀποστασία is only found in this verse. Other forms are found in 3 other verses. They are listed below in English then the Greek. The RED highlight, pairs the English with the Greek word. All English translations are KJV:
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat_19:7 λέγουσιν αὐτῷ· τί οὖν Μωσῆς ἐνετείλατο δοῦναι βιβλίον ἀποστασίου καὶ ἀπολῦσαι αὐτήν;
Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar_10:4 οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· ἐπέτρεψε Μωϋσῆς βιβλίον ἀποστασίου γράψαι καὶ ἀπολῦσαι.
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act_21:21 κατηχήθησαν δὲ περὶ σοῦ ὅτι ἀποστασίαν διδάσκεις ἀπὸ Μωϋσέως τοὺς κατὰ τὰ ἔθνη πάντας ᾿Ιουδαίους, λέγων μὴ περιτέμνειν αὐτοὺς τὰ τέκνα μηδὲ τοῖς ἔθεσι περιπατεῖν.
So now we can see, that the translators have used several different English words to express the meaning of: ἀποστάσιον.
However, one thing becomes clear, the primary meaning of this word is: "to separate from" or "to forsake". In Matthew and Mark, it is a separation of a husband from his wife. In Acts, it is the separation from a teaching of Moses.
Therefore, I would conclude, that here in second Thessalonians, the verse should read like this:
2Th 2:3 let no man deceive you in any way: for it will not be, except the separation come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (mine).
By interpretation, this verse means the separation from the Truth of God's Word to something that is a lie. This "separation" could be forced on one by heretical teaching or by that ones "forsaking" the Truth or both. But since this does not read well, grammatically, in English - I would stay with this version as best and closest to the meaning.
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, (ASV & RV).
Thought you might enjoy this study. I know I did and thank you for bringing up the subject.
yes because Jesus taught them that and then revealed it to Paul by revelation
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
before this he was teaching them they would go through terrible times and many would be killed but whoever endured would be saved
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
before this he was teaching them they would go through terrible times and many would be killed but whoever endured would be saved
it actually does matter because people believing they will have seven years to repent after the rapture let’s then believe repentance isn’t important today “ why not live as we will until the rapture then we’ll repent “ any distortion of what God said didn’t come from him . That always has some importance because remember what led man into damnation in the first place it was a distortion of what God said
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indeed brother , to be clear I don’t think of we don’t understand something like the rapture it’s going to condemn us I believe it’s when we hear Gods word meaning it sinks in and then we reject and distort it is when we need to repent and that’s pretty simple just let him correct our thinking and belief and then we can reach a step higher until we all come to a fuller and better understanding
there is certainly value in dropping an argumentative subject so I do get your point as well and am going to take that good advice and let things rest
there is certainly value in dropping an argumentative subject so I do get your point as well and am going to take that good advice and let things rest
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since you are a believer I think we can settle this this is the word of God in the name of Jesus Christ whomis your only lord and savior
“And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:20-27 KJV
I m a believer and to me that doesn’t mean I should reject this and go price together some other rapture where there’s no church on earth when he returns
Paul knew the truth
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV
When does that happen ? Immediately before the rapture ? Or after they endure it ?
“And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:20-27 KJV
I m a believer and to me that doesn’t mean I should reject this and go price together some other rapture where there’s no church on earth when he returns
Paul knew the truth
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV
When does that happen ? Immediately before the rapture ? Or after they endure it ?
Again I already have a judge it isn’t you or anyone you know. It’s the same judge you have but I noticed you rejected his word about the rapture being after the tribulation and went right back to judging me erroneously and out of turn have you ever heard the gospel ? So like maybe begin believing here with the instruction from the mouth of God himself and the promise that follows from him
“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:37
it’s really important for a Christian to believe Christ
“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:37
it’s really important for a Christian to believe Christ