Saved by Water

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Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#341
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#341
SophieT said:
I know what you believe

I believe what the Bible states also. does not state water baptism saves

does say that water baptism follows salvation as a sign that you are a follower of Christ and you signify your death in His by going under the water and new life by coming out

don't drown. not sure what that would signify :unsure:
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Drowning would not be good. On that we both agree. :)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#342
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
#342
HisKid said:
No mention of water baptism in Luke 24
44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
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What do think verse 47 is referring to if not Peter's message that everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin? This message began in Jerusalem and continued into all nations even until today. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 
H

HisKid

Banned
#343
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#343
Wansvic said:
What do think verse 47 is referring to if not Peter's message that everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin? This message began in Jerusalem and continued into all nations even until today. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
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I prefer not to add to the passage to suit your needs.

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H

HisKid

Banned
#344
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#344
Wansvic said:
What do think verse 47 is referring to if not Peter's message that everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin? This message began in Jerusalem and continued into all nations even until today. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
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I've never understood the purpose of this debate. Are you hoping to warn people they need to be dipped in water or they aren't born again? I've been water baptized twice. Once as an infant in the Catholic religion and once as a Christian. I'm pretty sure most people have been water baptized after repentance. However, it's just a ritual. It is repentance that matters.

Again, you cannot water baptize someone who is unrepentant and cleanse them of their sin.

So, what is the point of this?

.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#345
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
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#345
First off, it's nice to see that my hearts were not misplaced. I admit I'd wondered for a bit there... :)
SophieT said:
haha too funny. you know this am I thought about whether or not I had used Blik instead of Wansvic. Just transcribe the name and the post is the same ;)
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Glad you got a chuckle out of that. Your intention was clear enough. And it wasn't a big deal. But when talking with someone who is CLAIMING me to be in error, it's nice to start off by PROVING an error of theirs. :) BTW, did you happen to be praying when you thought of the possible mistake?

SophieT said:
there is no guarantee that people who are spirit baptized will all come to the same agreement...
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Eventually we will... (Eph. 4:11-13) ...at least those that don't give up along the way.

SophieT said:
generally I find I have much more in common with those who practice the gifts of the Spirit
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Likewise.

SophieT said:
I simply believed and He filled me with speaking in tongues on the spot...alone in my room as a teenager
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Thank-you Jesus. That is awesome.
SophieT said:
and yes thank you I certainly do know the import of this.
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You know SOME of the import. But your statement is a bit like claiming you know how big God is. (Not likely to pass closer inspection)

SophieT said:
Believe it or not, I have always sought to know God as He is and not as others want to say He is.
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I CAN believe it because that mindset is probably part of the reason you received speaking in tongues the way you did.

SophieT said:
if you already know where you stand, then just say what you believe. if people are being honest, that should be no problem IMO.
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"People being honest" isn't a guarantee in the BDF any more than it was when Jesus was talking while the scribes and Pharisees were present. If I have the opportunity towards more prayer on a potentially good-will-ending topic, I usually take it. Fortunately you chose to not be offended at the honest answer. That's actually rare in my experience when that question was worded the way you'd worded it. But that's why I hesitated. (And yes, I tend to over-explain).


SophieT said:
it still isn't true though
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You value your willingness to "know God as He is and not as others want to say He is". Do you then advise me to take your word as final authority?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#346
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#346
eternally-gratefull said:
Its not true

It is replacing the work of God with the work of Man.

It places water baptism done by the work of man with spirit baptism done by the work of God.

In laymens terms, its called blasphemy.
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Are you saying John's baptism was the work of men?
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#348
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#348
SophieT said:
I've got him on ignore now. I am so up to here with people trying to say the gifts are not for today. but for some reason, they all seem to think that teaching is their personal gift.
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Well-spoken. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#351
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#351
HisKid said:
Who are you responding to? You should leave the quoted text in your response.

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@HisKid Does it not show on your device. It shows it on my screen. But I was quoting SophieT (Post#330)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#353
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#353
FreeGrace2 said:
Your comments (snipes) are beyond funny. MacArthur is a Calvinist, which I'm not. Neither Arminian.

It's easier to ignore someone that to have an honest discussion, esp when you know you can't defend your own position. I asked for Scripture that supports your claim that you were Spirit baptized years after "getting saved".

So, now, you don't have to answer my request for biblical support.

Slick.
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It's easily provable (biblically) that a person can receive the Holy Ghost a considerable amount of time AFTER belief, if that's what you're ultimately asking for.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#357
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#357
HisKid said:
I've never understood the purpose of this debate. Are you hoping to warn people they need to be dipped in water or they aren't born again? I've been water baptized twice. Once as an infant in the Catholic religion and once as a Christian. I'm pretty sure most people have been water baptized after repentance. However, it's just a ritual. It is repentance that matters.

Again, you cannot water baptize someone who is unrepentant and cleanse them of their sin.

So, what is the point of this?

.
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Is it OK if I answer the "why is it so important" question?
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#359
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#359
HisKid said:
Absolutely.
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If water baptism was instituted by man, it is just a ritual that can and should be completely disregarded.
If water baptism was instituted at the mouth of God, then it becomes important to understand what it is meant to accomplish.
If water baptism was instituted by God AND is for remission of sins as Acts 2:38, Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3 and others suggest, then it is truly a matter of salvation.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
H

HisKid

Banned
#360
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#360
KelbyofGod said:
If water baptism was instituted by man, it is just a ritual that can and should be completely disregarded.
If water baptism was instituted at the mouth of God, then it becomes important to understand what it is meant to accomplish.
If water baptism was instituted by God AND is for remission of sins as Acts 2:38, Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3 and others suggest, then it is truly a matter of salvation.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Then I ask you this. Can you water baptize an unrepentant person and their sins will be remitted?

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