Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

[Icedaisey]

the word many is a number that is uncountable. the context of many and chosen are those who Jesu called and they obeyed the call.

Did not Jesus say to the rich man sell all you have and follow me?

Did the rich man do so?

Did Jesus say of the Disciples that parted that they were not one with us? Had they been they would not have left?

Those whom he foreknew he called to confirm to the image of his son.

 

[CS1]

Did the rich man do so?

Did Jesus say of the Disciples that parted that they were not one with us? Had they been they would not have left?

Those whom he foreknew he called to confirm to the image of his son.

no, the rich man walked away of HIS own free will AFTER GOD called HIM, Please remember God who has chosen us can also allow one to walk away because we are NOT forced to serve him. There is much biblical truth as to why one doesn't get saved.

Jesus used the sower parable to explain that. We are not supposed to focus on our election, we are supposed to focus ON THE LOSS.

the " Elect", election, is not elite. this is an error because it produced some very ungodly things in history. Word study Election and word studied Obey. Was the obey given to the lost of to the elect? think about that. Did Judgement not come on the very Elect of God? Think about that? Too much given is much required.

 

[Icedaisey]

Did the rich man do so?

Did Jesus say of the Disciples that parted that they were not one with us? Had they been they would not have left?

Those whom he foreknew he called to confirm to the image of his son.

Correction after edit time allowed.
"conform", not confirm. Though that would actually work.

 

[Icedaisey]

no, the rich man walked away of HIS own free will AFTER GOD called HIM, Please remember God who has chosen us can also allow one to walk away because we are NOT forced to serve him. There is much biblical truth as to why one doesn't get saved.

Jesus used the sower parable to explain that. We are not supposed to focus on our election, we are supposed to focus ON THE LOSS.

the " Elect", election, is not elite. this is an error because it produced some very ungodly things in history. Word study Election and word studied Obey. Was the obey given to the lost of to the elect? think about that. Did Judgement not come on the very Elect of God? Think about that? Too much given is much required.

Re: the rich man. Yes, many are called.

Few are chosen.

"the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.”

Kaleo

1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”

Look, it's really clear in God's own words.

God created all that exists after he wrote the names of his Elect in his book of life.

Only one tree was forbidden in the garden. If Eden was paradise why would one fruit be there that God foreknew, because it was his creation, would condemn the human race due to it being consumed contrary to God's command to Adam.
But clearly God's will overcame Adams. Imagine if our will could ever counter what the will of God predestined.

And after that, sin entered the world through that one man.

How did sin come to exist in the first place? Is anything that exists of any source but of God? Is there a single passage that tells us we can choose and overcome God's will?

Why did God send Satan to be lord of this world after Satan went to war to try and take God's place in Heaven? Losing that chance in Heaven, why did God grant him lordship on earth?

God is forgiving? Why didn't he forgive Eve? And Adam? And finally destroy Satan who went to destroy his creation , us, in Eden?

If Satan couldn't act against Job without God's permission, he couldn't act in the garden without that either. That's how the serpent knew which tree from which to tempt Eve.

Bible: All things are of God. Predestined according to his will. As on earth as it is in Heaven. God didn't foresee the war in Heaven.
Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and seal for his own glory.

We can make a choice that overcomes that?

No.

 

[CS1]

Re: the rich man. Yes, many are called.

Few are chosen.

"the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.”

Kaleo

1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”

Look, it's really clear in God's own words.

God created all that exists after he wrote the names of his Elect in his book of life.

Only one tree was forbidden in the garden. If Eden was paradise why would one fruit be there that God foreknew, because it was his creation, would condemn the human race due to it being consumed contrary to God's command to Adam.
But clearly God's will overcame Adams. Imagine if our will could ever counter what the will of God predestined.

And after that, sin entered the world through that one man.

How did sin come to exist in the first place? Is anything that exists of any source but of God? Is there a single passage that tells us we can choose and overcome God's will?

Why did God send Satan to be lord of this world after Satan went to war to try and take God's place in Heaven? Losing that chance in Heaven, why did God grant him lordship on earth?

God is forgiving? Why didn't he forgive Eve? And Adam? And finally destroy Satan who went to destroy his creation , us, in Eden?

If Satan couldn't act against Job without God's permission, he couldn't act in the garden without that either. That's how the serpent knew which tree from which to tempt Eve.

Bible: All things are of God. Predestined according to his will. As on earth as it is in Heaven. God didn't foresee the war in Heaven.
Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and seal for his own glory.

We can make a choice that overcomes that?

No.

why are you use scripture to place God in a box?


"All things are of God. Predestined according to his will. As on earth as it is in Heaven. God didn't foresee the war in Heaven.
Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and seal for his own glory."

Yes, all things that GOD knows of that we are unable to know. What happened to the Sovereign God?

Let me ask you this Is this same Sovereign able to do what HE wants? Can God say I bring judgment on you but if you repent and turn from your wicked ways I will not do it? This same God who said IF you take life by murder your life I be taken did not this same God who said that DID NOT Take Davids's life? YET He allowed Saul to be taken?

IF God is Sovereign and will do what HE wants why should we pray for HIM to save the lost HE already knows who will be saved?

IF the effectual prayer of a righteous person counts much with God yet HE will not hear us why should we pray?

Is it possible God is also a God of Conditions, Covenants, and promises and upholding all HIS word? Even in HIS Sovereign nature, HIS heart can be moved by prayer?

 

[Icedaisey]

Re: the rich man. Yes, many are called.

Few are chosen.

"the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.”

Kaleo

1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”

Look, it's really clear in God's own words.

God created all that exists after he wrote the names of his Elect in his book of life.

Only one tree was forbidden in the garden. If Eden was paradise why would one fruit be there that God foreknew, because it was his creation, would condemn the human race due to it being consumed contrary to God's command to Adam.
But clearly God's will overcame Adams. Imagine if our will could ever counter what the will of God predestined.

And after that, sin entered the world through that one man.

How did sin come to exist in the first place? Is anything that exists of any source but of God? Is there a single passage that tells us we can choose and overcome God's will?

Why did God send Satan to be lord of this world after Satan went to war to try and take God's place in Heaven? Losing that chance in Heaven, why did God grant him lordship on earth?

God is forgiving? Why didn't he forgive Eve? And Adam? And finally destroy Satan who went to destroy his creation , us, in Eden?

If Satan couldn't act against Job without God's permission, he couldn't act in the garden without that either. That's how the serpent knew which tree from which to tempt Eve.

Bible: All things are of God. Predestined according to his will. As on earth as it is in Heaven. God didn't foresee the war in Heaven.
Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and seal for his own glory.

We can make a choice that overcomes that?

No.

Lord knows I love autocorrect while at the laundry mat.

God didn't foresee the war in Heaven?Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and zeal for his own glory.

 

[Icedaisey]

why are you use scripture to place God in a box?

Scripture is God in a book.

"All things are of God. Predestined according to his will. As on earth as it is in Heaven. God didn't foresee the war in Heaven.
Predestined. According to God's will ,purpose, and seal for his own glory."

Yes, all things that GOD knows of that we are unable to know. What happened to the Sovereign God?

Let me ask you this Is this same Sovereign able to do what HE wants? Can God say I bring judgment on you but if you repent and turn from your wicked ways I will not do it? This same God who said IF you take life by murder your life I be taken did not this same God who said that DID NOT Take Davids's life? YET He allowed Saul to be taken?

IF God is Sovereign and will do what HE wants why should we pray for HIM to save the lost HE already knows who will be saved?

IF the effectual prayer of a righteous person counts much with God yet HE will not hear us why should we pray?

Is it possible God is also a God of Conditions, Covenants, and promises and upholding all HIS word? Even in HIS Sovereign nature, HIS heart can be moved by prayer?

You answered your own question. God being sovereign is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent over and within all that is created both of and from him.

Therefore, being all that exists is of sovereign omniscient God, and from sovereign omniscient God, there is no thing that exists outside of God's knowledge and power. Because everything that is, exists, serves God and God's purpose. Because every part , every atom, fiber, etc... of all things comes from God.

Everything that is, is of God.
It acts according to God's will, creating it to be what it is and serve the purpose of his will, because all is of and from the power and eternal presence that is God.

We do not have a will free of that. Because every part of us is from the eternal source that is and is within its creation that is and is created of , by, and from the source, the creator, God.

What is prayer but beseeching God to alter his will as it is unfolding? Meditation is discerning his will and following the course.

 

[1ofthem]

Those whom he foreknew he called to confirm to the image of his son.

The scripture you quoted goes against your own theory. "Many are called" if your theory of irresistible drawing/calling held any truth, then the Many that were Called would ALL be saved. They would have no choice to resist.

See that...your view makes no sense in context with the scriptures.

 

[Magenta]

No, but I have noticed that people who believe the Lake of Fire is eternal punishment seems to be more concerned for the lost and on sharing the word of God with them and praying more for them.

Really? How does seeing the LoF as eternal punishment through the means of death -which is actually explicitly stated in Scripture in a multitude of ways throughout the entirety of Scripture, from Genesis through to Revelation- when it does not include eternal conscious torment and torture. equate to not caring for the eternal fate of others?

Here's the thing, if I'm wrong then people just cease to exist. No biggie, right. They decided they didn't want to be with the Lord so they won't be. They'll just dissolve away.

Why is saying the non-believer just gets what they want even an argument? God rains on the just and unjust.

If you are wrong, then people wind up in the lake of fire punished throughout eternity and you and have told them they would only cease to exist. That would be a horrendous fate that might have been avoided if they had only known the truth.

The Truth is a Person. They have no excuse as per Scripture for rejecting God. Oh, they have plenty of reasons why within the confines of their own minds. Are you aware that one of them is the God many present to them is a torturer?

 

[1ofthem]

Really? How does seeing the LoF as eternal punishment through the means of death -which is actually explicitly stated in Scripture in a multitude of ways throughout the entirety of Scripture, from Genesis through to Revelation- when it does not include eternal conscious torment and torture. equate to not caring for the eternal fate of others?

If we somehow offer false hope to others, then that is not caring for them. So it would pay us all to be careful how we handle the Word of God. None of us have a perfect understanding so that is why it is best to give the Word of God on issues such as this and leave our own personal opinions out.

Why is saying the non-believer just gets what they want even an argument? God rains on the just and unjust.

Because annihilation is exactly what atheists and others are hoping will happen.

Jesus spent more time warning of hell and the lake of fire than speaking of heaven. So it's important to repeat his warning using his exact words and statements not putting in our own opinions.

The Truth is a Person. They have no excuse as per Scripture for rejecting God. Oh, they have plenty of reasons why within the confines of their own minds. Are you aware that one of them is the God many present to them is a torturer?

Again, this is why it is important to leave opinions out. We should quote the scriptures and let the Word of God draw others to Him. Scripture says that God is Love, and he is also a God of judgment and justice. That is why it is best to quote the scriptures and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. We don't need to defend God's character to anyone. We should quote the word and leave the rest to Him.

 

[Magenta]

If we somehow offer false hope to others, then that is not caring for them. So it would pay us all to be careful how we handle the Word of God. None of us have a perfect understanding so that is why it is best to give the Word of God on issues such as this and leave our own personal opinions out.

Funny thing is I do give the Word of God on it and people oppose it with their reasoning.

How is death false hope? God used/uses death as punishment all through Scripture.

 

[Icedaisey]

The scripture you quoted goes against your own theory. "Many are called" if your theory of irresistible drawing/calling held any truth, then the Many that were Called would ALL be saved. They would have no choice to resist.

See that...your view makes no sense in context with the scriptures.

Not true.
Many are called.
But few are his chosen. Elect of God.
That all is in keeping with what I've said. Because what I've written is taken from scripture.
No one comes to God unless God draws them. Jesus was God.

Read all of John 6

 

[CS1]

Scripture is God in a book.



You answered your own question. God being sovereign is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent over and within all that is created both of and from him.

Therefore, being all that exists is of sovereign omniscient God, and from sovereign omniscient God, there is no thing that exists outside of God's knowledge and power. Because everything that is, exists, serves God and God's purpose. Because every part , every atom, fiber, etc... of all things comes from God.

Everything that is, is of God.
It acts according to God's will, creating it to be what it is and serve the purpose of his will, because all is of and from the power and eternal presence that is God.

We do not have a will free of that. Because every part of us is from the eternal source that is and is within its creation that is and is created of , by, and from the source, the creator, God.

What is prayer but beseeching God to alter his will as it is unfolding? Meditation is discerning his will and following the course.

No Scripture is God speaking to us through the words HE said.

 

[Magenta]

No Scripture is God speaking to us through the words HE said.

Same difference, pretty much. Those words were recorded in what we know as the Bible Scripture is a record of God's history with His chosen people and the world at large, plus His plan for humanity through the shed righteous blood of His only begotten Son.

 

[CS1]

Same difference, pretty much. Those words were recorded in what we know as the Bible Scripture is a record of God's history with His chosen people and the world at large, plus His plan for humanity through the shed righteous blood of His only begotten Son.

I disagree
we do not worship the Bible we worship the God of the Bible.

 

[1ofthem]

Not true.
Many are called.
But few are his chosen. Elect of God.
That all is in keeping with what I've said. Because what I've written is taken from scripture.

Many are called few are chosen. We know many are called...now you need to understand who the chosen really are...

John 1: 12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

No one comes to God unless God draws them. Jesus was God.

Read all of John 6

John 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

So who did he draw? According to the scriptures, all men when/after he was lifted up.

And who did he give the power to become the sons of God? Those that received Him and believed upon His name.

It really is that simple!

 

[CS1]

Many are called few are chosen. We know many are called...now you need to understand who the chosen really are...

John 1: 12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:



John 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

So who did he draw? According to the scriptures, it was all men when/after he was lifted up.

And who did he give the power to become the sons of God? Those that received Him and believed upon His name.

It really is that simple!

amen faith is the noun, belief is the verb "those who Come to HIM MUST BELIEVE "

 

[49]

Thanks, yes i see what you mean about pages, i'm only getting notified when i'm quoted and i keep forgetting to refresh, but no worries i'm sure i'll get used to doing it

And welcome to CC!

 

[Magenta]

I disagree
we do not worship the Bible we worship the God of the Bible.

Who said anything about worshiping the Bible?

Why do you disagree with me saying the Bible is a recorded history of God's words to His people and humanity at large, and also includes His plan for all through the shed righteous blood of His only begotten Son?

 

[BryanPaul]

Many are called few are chosen. We know many are called...now you need to understand who the chosen really are...

John 1: 12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Just to point out, although i'm sure you already know, that the KJV use of the word "even" is old English and isn't used in the way we use it today, it means something more like "namely"


John 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

So who did he draw? According to the scriptures, all men when/after he was lifted up.

And who did he give the power to become the sons of God? Those that received Him and believed upon His name.

It really is that simple!