Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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brightfame52

Well-known member
#121
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
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#121
Election is unconditional because God has chosen His People by Grace before the foundation Eph 1:4, of course this means this means He could not have chosen them or their works. This also means it was not based upon any foreseen, works, decisions, or believing or anything they do or do not do. This is called Gods election of grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#122
#122
brightfame52 said:
No its not ! Its in your imagination friend.
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I just showed you two verses where it was.

So dont try to tell me what I am imagining my friend.

Gods word is truth

Jesus proclaimed it in the old and the new

once again, He said chose this dayl

He also said whoever does not believe is condemned BECAUSE they did not believe (not because he kept them from truth)

He also said it was his will to gather jerusalem up as a mother hen but they were UNWILLING.

It is Gods will that whoever sees and believes will not perish.

You can twist these verses to mean something else all you ant. Gods word is clear
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#123
#123
brightfame52 said:
Election is unconditional because God has chosen His People by Grace before the foundation Eph 1:4, of course this means this means He could not have chosen them or their works. This also means it was not based upon any foreseen, works, decisions, or believing or anything they do or do not do. This is called Gods election of grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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He chose them by GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

You can not remove faith from the equation my friend.

There is no justification apart from faith. And there is no sanctificaTimon apart from justification. One is not made alive IN SIN
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#124
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#124
eternally-gratefull said:
I just showed you two verses where it was.

So dont try to tell me what I am imagining my friend.

Gods word is truth

Jesus proclaimed it in the old and the new

once again, He said chose this dayl

He also said whoever does not believe is condemned BECAUSE they did not believe (not because he kept them from truth)

He also said it was his will to gather jerusalem up as a mother hen but they were UNWILLING.

It is Gods will that whoever sees and believes will not perish.

You can twist these verses to mean something else all you ant. Gods word is clear
Click to expand...
You think you showed me two verses were it was, but its your imagination.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#125
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#125
eternally-gratefull said:
He chose them by GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

You can not remove faith from the equation my friend.

There is no justification apart from faith. And there is no sanctificaTimon apart from justification. One is not made alive IN SIN
Click to expand...
No one had faith before the foundation of the world when they were chosen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#126
#126
brightfame52 said:
You think you showed me two verses were it was, but its your imagination.
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Whatever.

My imagination is posted in those posts for all to see..

Whether you agree or not is beside the point.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#127
#127
brightfame52 said:
No one had faith before the foundation of the world when they were chosen.
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Why do you limit God so much?

Why would God contradict himself?

Why would God say chose this day.

Why would God say whoever sees and believes

Why would God say grace THROUGH FAITH?

Sorry man.. Your logic is illogical
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#131
#131
brightfame52 said:
How does that limit God ? No one had a being before the foundation when God made His choice.
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God has the right to do whatever he wants.

If he choses to chose people based on their faith in Him. Who are we to deny his free will decision to chose.

I am not the one limiting God my friend. Your limiting God to do what you think he did. You have removed free will from God himself.
 
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reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#132
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#132
phil36 said:
... the issue isn't about believing or having faith but rather how one comes to faith ...
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My understanding:

Romans 10:

17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Faith by hearing (the word "cometh" is not in the text) and hearing by Word of God.

1 Cor 1:21 tells us it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. I believe God has used the "foolishness of preaching" throughout all ages. From time of Adam through today and into the future, believers will be speaking God's word to their family and their children and to unbelievers.


Read Romans 1:18 - 32

This section of Scripture tells us exactly what occurs in those who do not believe. It's not that they can't believe. It's that the unbeliever rejects the truth of God's Word when it is shared with them and the believer does not reject the truth when someone shares God's Word with them.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:18-19 tells us that the truth is suppressed when God makes it plain to them. The word "hold" in vs 18 is the Greek word katechō and it means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, it is restrained from reaching the heart of the unbeliever. They reject the truth. They reject God.

Because they suppress the truth, they do not glorify God, their thinking becomes empty and foolish and, as a result, their foolish hearts become darkened — Rom 1:20-21.

Because the heart is darkened, they profess themselves as wise but in reality they become fools and turn to idolatry — Rom 1:22-23.

Because of this, God gives them over to uncleanness — Rom 1:24.

Because they are given over to uncleanness, they degrade their own bodies and exchange the truth of God into a lie. They worship creation more than the Creator — Rom 1:25.

Because of this, God gives them over to vile affections — Rom 1:26.

Because they are given over to vile affections, they commit shameful acts and receive in themselves the adequate penalty for their error — Rom 1:27.

Because they do not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gives them over to a reprobate mind — Rom 1:28.

Because they have a reprobate mind, they exhibit all of the behaviors shown in Rom 1:29-32.

Look at how long God holds on to a person before he or she is given over to a reprobate mind. First it's suppress the truth; then the foolish heart becomes darkened; then given up to uncleanness; then given up to vile affections; then reprobate mind. Each time the person is given up to the next downward step, it is because he or she has rejected God.

These are the steps that are taken over the course of many years. God holds on as long as He can, but at some point, as they move further and further away from Him, God has to let them go.

It's not like they are born with a reprobate mind to begin with ... or that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness one moment and the next moment they have a reprobate mind. There are more than several steps involved in the downward spiral to reprobate mind. And in the Greek the word reprobate means not standing the test; not approved.

And at any point, a person can allow the truth of God's Word to penetrate their heart and God will start working to bring increase to that little kernel of truth they do not restrain (faith by hearing and hearing by word of God – Rom 10:17). God brings the increase in the heart of those who do not reject Him.


That is why it is so important for us as believers (and to whom God has entrusted the ministry of reconciliation - 2 Col 5:18-20) to speak the truth of God's Word to others ... not man's wisdom. Limited atonement / replacement theology (which are teachings brightfame52 holds to) are not Scriptural truth.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#136
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#136
eternally-gratefull said:
God has the right to do whatever he wants.

If he choses to chose people based on their faith in Him. Who are we to deny his free will decision to chose.

I am not the one limiting God my friend. Your limiting God to do what you think he did. You have removed free will from God himself.
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Can you explain how God chose someone before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 based upon their faith before they existed ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#137
#137
brightfame52 said:
Scripture is right, and Im showing you scripture !
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You have not shown me anything, You have ignored my scripture and just run your mouth how wrong I am.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#138
#138
brightfame52 said:
Can you explain how God chose someone before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 based upon their faith before they existed ?
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Can you explain How god can prophecy things literally thousands of years in advance and they come true word for word?

Why do you hold God down to time? God is outside of time my friend.
 
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Edify

Well-known member
#139
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
656
113
#139
He who knows the end from the beginning knows who will accept Christ & who won't in advance. It's really not that hard to understand.
We still have to come to God the gospel way, & only that way. Christ is still the only way to eternal life.
 
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