Sabbath

[MalikB]

The Commandments aren't Gods Law.

If the Commandments were Gods Law then they could never be called the Ministration of Condemnation and Death. (2 Cor 3)


The Commandments have a purpose. To bring a person to Christ. Once a person comes to Christ the Ministration of Condemnation and Death has no more authority over them. They have gone on to a better Way. They have gone on to a New Covenant. They have moved forward into Gods Real Law and not the imagination and traditions of legalists who don't understand what Christ has done and what He continues to do.

Nowhere in the text does it say that God's law/commandments no longer apply. You have to read that into the scriptures. The OT covenants had curses (physical penalties) associated with them. If you sin, you had to pay these penalties.... from animal sacrifices, to capital punishment (being stoned). This was why the 10 commandments were referred to as the "ministry" (servicer/supplier) of death. The law/commandments supplied this "death" for those that broke them and were found guilty. It also supplied blessings and glory to those who followed it.

The law was written down physically for the first covenant.... and therefore had physical penalties (curses) for breaking it (sacrifices, stoning, etc.). The Messiah paid those physical penalties with the death of his body so that that the law could be transfered to a new covenant written on the heart... Spiritual law... spitirual penalties....


Matthew 5:19

19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven.

The law never went away. Just the PHYSICAL penalties because those were the penalties for the physical (earthly) covenant.

 

[Blik]

To my mind of the flesh it seems absolutely wrong not to have complete faith in the creation of the Sabbath as told in Genesis. That would translate to our lives today so we work six days at keeping our flesh alive and spend one day devoted to our spirit.

Paul spent three years with Christ and is our apostle. Paul says it is not important which day we choose to worship the Lord.

 

[Grandpa]

Nowhere in the text does it say that God's law/commandments no longer apply. You have to read that into the scriptures. The OT covenants had curses (physical penalties) associated with them. If you sin, you had to pay these penalties.... from animal sacrifices, to capital punishment (being stoned). This was why the 10 commandments were referred to as the "ministry" (servicer/supplier) of death. The law/commandments supplied this "death" for those that broke them and were found guilty. It also supplied blessings and glory to those who followed it.

The law was written down physically for the first covenant.... and therefore had physical penalties (curses) for breaking it (sacrifices, stoning, etc.). The Messiah paid those physical penalties with the death of his body so that that the law could be transfered to a new covenant written on the heart... Spiritual law... spitirual penalties....


Matthew 5:19

19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven.

The law never went away. Just the PHYSICAL penalties because those were the penalties for the physical (earthly) covenant.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.




Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Something happens to the Law. But only for those who are in Christ. Those who are not in Christ are under every jot and tittle of the Law.

 

[laymen]

The Commandments aren't Gods Law.

If the Commandments were Gods Law then they could never be called the Ministration of Condemnation and Death. (2 Cor 3)


The Commandments have a purpose. To bring a person to Christ. Once a person comes to Christ the Ministration of Condemnation and Death has no more authority over them. They have gone on to a better Way. They have gone on to a New Covenant. They have moved forward into Gods Real Law and not the imagination and traditions of legalists who don't understand what Christ has done and what He continues to do.

Paul calls the Law Holy, just and good. If we never choose Jesus then the law brings death.

 

[TMS]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.




Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Something happens to the Law. But only for those who are in Christ. Those who are not in Christ are under every jot and tittle of the Law.

There is 2 aspects to this point....
The law does condemn use to death and we are lost while the law condemns us.
So we look to Jesus and find salvation, praise God.
So do we make the law void, throw it away, remove the law so we are no longer condemned? No we go to Jesus to be saved by grace throw faith.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Do we throw out the law?
Or has it ended?
The laws that were shadows of Christ, and pointed to what He would do are no longer required. Type meet with antitpye at the cross. We don't need sacrifices because we have Jesus to look at.
Some laws have been nailed to the cross, but sin still needs to be defined, and if the moral laws could have been changed or removed then Jesus wouldn't have needed to die.

 

[TMS]

Keeping the law will not save us because we have all failed. Jesus kept it perfectly and we can be saved by faith in Him.

Do we continue to sin (kill, steal, forget the sabbath, take Gods name in vain) because Jesus has paid for our sins with His life?

 

[DavidTree]

Keeping the law will not save us because we have all failed. Jesus kept it perfectly and we can be saved by faith in Him.

Do we continue to sin (kill, steal, forget the sabbath, take Gods name in vain) because Jesus has paid for our sins with His life?

What sabbath are you referring to that we are commanded to keep???

 

[Grandpa]

There is 2 aspects to this point....
The law does condemn use to death and we are lost while the law condemns us.
So we look to Jesus and find salvation, praise God.
So do we make the law void, throw it away, remove the law so we are no longer condemned? No we go to Jesus to be saved by grace throw faith.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Do we throw out the law?
Or has it ended?
The laws that were shadows of Christ, and pointed to what He would do are no longer required. Type meet with antitpye at the cross. We don't need sacrifices because we have Jesus to look at.
Some laws have been nailed to the cross, but sin still needs to be defined, and if the moral laws could have been changed or removed then Jesus wouldn't have needed to die.

Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


There was a change to the Law. No one could keep the "moral" law.


Could you find ONE place in scripture where anyone refers to the 10 commandments as the "moral" law? From what I've seen its a construct invented by legalists to continue their worship of the Law.

 

[Grandpa]

Paul calls the Law Holy, just and good. If we never choose Jesus then the law brings death.

You get to choose one or the other.

Law. Or Christ.

If you still place yourself under law then you didn't choose Christ and you don't understand what Christianity even is.


Galatians 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

 

[DavidTree]

You get to choose one or the other.

Law. Or Christ.

If you still place yourself under law then you didn't choose Christ and you don't understand what Christianity even is.


Galatians 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Yous said: You get to choose one or another, Law or Christ....

this is a difficult proposition for the religious minded

 

[MalikB]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

To be "UNDER the law" means "subject to its penalties". We are no longer subject to physical penalties associated with the "old" covenant (sacrifices, stoning, etc.). This again does not mean the law no longer applies. We know that sin is the violation of the law according to 1 John 3:4... and the very next verse proves that us not being "under law" does not mean we can not sin:


Romans 6:15

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

If sinning means "breaking God's law".... and we are still able to sin.... then the law still applies.

Galatians 3:25

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

A schoolmaster was a male servant who was responsible for guiding boys into manhood…. basically a role model. So these verses are saying that the law was our guide to The Messiah and now we no longer need that guide, because HE is now our role model. If we follow Him correctly, we will be following the law. We were given a physical example of the written law…. “The word made flesh.”

2 Corinthians 3:6

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Again... The OT covenants had curses (physical penalties) associated with them. If you sin, you had to pay these penalties.... from animal sacrifices, to capital punishment (being stoned). This was why the 10 commandments were referred to as the "ministry" (servicer/supplier) of death.

Hebrews 7:18-19

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

I don't even see how this could even be interpreted as evidence for the law no longer applying, so I have nothing to say about this one. Notice that all of these were verses from Paul though. You have fallin into the same trap we were warned about:


2 Peter 3:16-17

16 He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.
17 And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continuously be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people. Otherwise, you may fall from your secure position.

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Something happens to the Law. But only for those who are in Christ. Those who are not in Christ are under every jot and tittle of the Law.

Again, "under the law" just mean "subject to its penalties".... not that we don't have to keep it.

 

[MalikB]

To my mind of the flesh it seems absolutely wrong not to have complete faith in the creation of the Sabbath as told in Genesis. That would translate to our lives today so we work six days at keeping our flesh alive and spend one day devoted to our spirit.

Paul spent three years with Christ and is our apostle. Paul says it is not important which day we choose to worship the Lord.

He did not say this

 

[MalikB]

Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


There was a change to the Law. No one could keep the "moral" law.


Could you find ONE place in scripture where anyone refers to the 10 commandments as the "moral" law? From what I've seen its a construct invented by legalists to continue their worship of the Law.

Can you stop ignoring "until heaven and earth disappear"??

 

[laymen]

You get to choose one or the other.

Law. Or Christ.

If you still place yourself under law then you didn't choose Christ and you don't understand what Christianity even is.


Galatians 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

(Answer to #2 4) Paul was teaching that you are not justified by the law but faith that works though love Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.) If someone try's to get to heaven by keeping the law then Jesus becomes no effect. But by letting Jesus in our heart the law is on our hearts and conscience and we keep it because we love God not to be Justified.....

Answer to #4,5Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Knowing the law is a blessing... James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Some don't have the law to look to and they only go by their conscience.

 

[Grandpa]

Yous said: You get to choose one or another, Law or Christ....

this is a difficult proposition for the religious minded

Yes.

They won't believe it.

But its true.

 

[Grandpa]

To be "UNDER the law" means "subject to its penalties". We are no longer subject to physical penalties associated with the "old" covenant (sacrifices, stoning, etc.). This again does not mean the law no longer applies. We know that sin is the violation of the law according to 1 John 3:4... and the very next verse proves that us not being "under law" does not mean we can not sin:


Romans 6:15

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

If sinning means "breaking God's law".... and we are still able to sin.... then the law still applies.

That doesn't really make any sense, does it?

The Law still applies but we are not under it? If it still applies then we ARE still under it.

Only if it DIDN'T apply would we NOT be under it.

This is why it is called the Ministry of Death and Condemnation,
Deuteronomy 30:15-20
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


Under the Law means you think it still applies to you. If it still applies to you then every jot and tittle applies. Not one jot or one tittle will fall from the Law until All is fulfilled.

 

[Grandpa]

Can you stop ignoring "until heaven and earth disappear"??

I could explain that to you as well but it appears you are having a pretty hard time.

Better stick to the easy stuff before we go on to more difficult concepts.

 

[Grandpa]

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

(Answer to #2 4) Paul was teaching that you are not justified by the law but faith that works though love Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.) If someone try's to get to heaven by keeping the law then Jesus becomes no effect. But by letting Jesus in our heart the law is on our hearts and conscience and we keep it because we love God not to be Justified.....

Answer to #4,5Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Knowing the law is a blessing... James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Some don't have the law to look to and they only go by their conscience.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you look to the law to try and keep it that is what happens. Because you don't keep it. All you can do is pretend that you keep it. And your pretending doesn't fool anyone.


We don't make the law void through our faith in Christ. We are Gods Workmanship. He produces the fruit of righteousness in our lives. This fruit of Righteousness is what establishes the Law. Not pretending to keep it in your own strength and knowledge.

 

[MalikB]

I could explain that to you as well but it appears you are having a pretty hard time.

Better stick to the easy stuff before we go on to more difficult concepts.

AKA Cop out

 

[TMS]

You get to choose one or the other.

Law. Or Christ.

If you still place yourself under law then you didn't choose Christ and you don't understand what Christianity even is.


Galatians 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

One or the other?
I will choose Jesus. So i can't keep the law, and i can't obey it, or I'm not choosing Jesus. Are you saying i can't obey the law and have faith at the same time.
So if i choose Jesus, i can murder, and steal and not obey the law as much as i want.

Can i choose Jesus and obey the law?
I bible states that i should.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.