Saved by Water
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FreeGrace2 said:
Prove this, please. EVERY English translation on bible hub.com has "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit".
Where do you get this "singular name" business?...
So, you just ignore Matt 28:19 then. Slick.
I have just one last question for you. Do you believe in the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as separate Persons all with the same attributes and are coequal?
Prove this, please. EVERY English translation on bible hub.com has "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit".
Where do you get this "singular name" business?...
So, you just ignore Matt 28:19 then. Slick.
I have just one last question for you. Do you believe in the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as separate Persons all with the same attributes and are coequal?
FreeGrace2 said:
...
We know that the Holy Spirit indwells WHEN a person believes in Christ...
Such ignorance of Scripture is astounding!!
This is what Paul told the Galatian believers:
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
Maybe you'll just ignore these verses like all the others that refute your faulty theology. But the fact is clear; the Holy Spirit is received upon faith in Christ.
Acts 11:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized withthe Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
These verses also refute your unbiblical theology.
...
We know that the Holy Spirit indwells WHEN a person believes in Christ...
Such ignorance of Scripture is astounding!!
This is what Paul told the Galatian believers:
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
Maybe you'll just ignore these verses like all the others that refute your faulty theology. But the fact is clear; the Holy Spirit is received upon faith in Christ.
Acts 11:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized withthe Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
These verses also refute your unbiblical theology.
This is an interesting way to TOTALLY MISREAD the verse. The angel TOLD HIM to get Peter. Acts 11:14 shows what else the angel said to Cornelius: Peter will give you a message by which YOU WILL BE SAVED.
Did you get that? Cornelius was saved through a MESSAGE preached. Nothing about water baptism involved.
And v.15-17 prove that Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit on the basis of believing the message of Peter.
More total misreading of Scripture. Peter said NO SUCH thing to Cornelius or anyone else.
It was AFTER Cornelius believed and received the Holy Spirit that Peter water baptized them.
10:42-48
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
v.43 shows the method of salvation; "believes in Christ".
v.44 red words prove that the Holy Spirit was received by everyone who heard (and believed) the message.
v.45 blue words prove that the Holy Spirit was received BEFORE water baptism (v.48)
v.46 green words shows the evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit.
v.47 purple words shows Peter's thought process. SINCE they had already received the Holy Spirit, they should be water baptized.
v.48 orange words shows that water baptism FOLLOWED their salvation and receiving of the Holy Spirit.
If you disagree with my analysis, please address each verse and prove how I'm wrong.
Did you get that? Cornelius was saved through a MESSAGE preached. Nothing about water baptism involved.
And v.15-17 prove that Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit on the basis of believing the message of Peter.
More total misreading of Scripture. Peter said NO SUCH thing to Cornelius or anyone else.
It was AFTER Cornelius believed and received the Holy Spirit that Peter water baptized them.
10:42-48
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
v.43 shows the method of salvation; "believes in Christ".
v.44 red words prove that the Holy Spirit was received by everyone who heard (and believed) the message.
v.45 blue words prove that the Holy Spirit was received BEFORE water baptism (v.48)
v.46 green words shows the evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit.
v.47 purple words shows Peter's thought process. SINCE they had already received the Holy Spirit, they should be water baptized.
v.48 orange words shows that water baptism FOLLOWED their salvation and receiving of the Holy Spirit.
If you disagree with my analysis, please address each verse and prove how I'm wrong.
FreeGrace2 said:
This is a silly road to go down.
Why would you suppose that believers are being baptized "in the name of water baptism in and of itself" anyway?
Do you know of anyone that has said this, or that you have witnessed?
No, it's not "fine". I always answer questions. But look above. I see a question of mine that you aren't going to answer.
So, what question would you like an answer?
I don't have a problem with how the apostles baptized people.
I do have a huge problem with your "Oneness" stuff.
This is a silly road to go down.
Why would you suppose that believers are being baptized "in the name of water baptism in and of itself" anyway?
Do you know of anyone that has said this, or that you have witnessed?
No, it's not "fine". I always answer questions. But look above. I see a question of mine that you aren't going to answer.
So, what question would you like an answer?
I don't have a problem with how the apostles baptized people.
I do have a huge problem with your "Oneness" stuff.
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FreeGrace2 said:
I don't care how many times you state something. Where do you get the "singular name" from? Please show your evidence.
This is pure presumption.
I don't care how many times you state something. Where do you get the "singular name" from? Please show your evidence.
This is pure presumption.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't care how many times you state something. Where do you get the "singular name" from? Please show your evidence.
So, you are unable or unwilling to answer my question. Typical of those who don't have answers to questions that refute their ideas.
I don't care how many times you state something. Where do you get the "singular name" from? Please show your evidence.
So, you are unable or unwilling to answer my question. Typical of those who don't have answers to questions that refute their ideas.
If my bible timeline is correct Paul actually wrote 1st Corinthians while in Ephesus where he instructed disciples that they had to be rebaptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:1-6) Paul's comment was not that he didn't baptize anymore, but rather that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel message. (1 Cor. 1:17) Of which water baptism is a part.
We know that members of the body perform different primary functions. So Paul's statement would more likely pertain to preaching being his primary ministry. While others administered water baptisms unless no one else was available to perform them.
Also, consider that according to Paul the person we were is crucified and buried with Jesus by baptism. (Rom. 6:3-4) And having been planted together in the likeness of Jesus’ death, we shall be also in the likeness of Jesus resurrection. (Rom. 6:5) These truths can be seen in one’s obedience to God’s command that everyone repent, and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (death and burial) And, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (resurrection power) Having been reborn of water and Spirit provides for entrance into heaven where we will live with Jesus. (Rom. 6:8)
“ Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:3-8
We know that members of the body perform different primary functions. So Paul's statement would more likely pertain to preaching being his primary ministry. While others administered water baptisms unless no one else was available to perform them.
Also, consider that according to Paul the person we were is crucified and buried with Jesus by baptism. (Rom. 6:3-4) And having been planted together in the likeness of Jesus’ death, we shall be also in the likeness of Jesus resurrection. (Rom. 6:5) These truths can be seen in one’s obedience to God’s command that everyone repent, and be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (death and burial) And, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (resurrection power) Having been reborn of water and Spirit provides for entrance into heaven where we will live with Jesus. (Rom. 6:8)
“ Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:3-8
I'm not sure where Peter stated we are saved the moment we believe. Would you please provide that scripture?
I am familiar with him making the following statements:
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21
The group asks what they must do and Peter informs them they must repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and they can expect to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:36-42
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine...
I am familiar with him making the following statements:
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21
The group asks what they must do and Peter informs them they must repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and they can expect to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:36-42
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine...
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If a person believes in the Lord Jesus they SHALL be saved. After making that statement, Paul shared the word of the Lord and the people responded to his message by being baptized. I acknowledge that the scripture does not state that the baptism was in water. However, it is likely since the jailer washed their wounds in water and afterward it is stated that the jailer and his family were baptized straight away.
Acts 16:31-34
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Acts 16:31-34
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
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Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is not so.
Again, why did the apostles baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus in obedience to Jesus command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Matthew 28:19? If one refuses to accept that truth they are rejecting the word which is in fact a rejection of Jesus. (John 1:1)
Again, why did the apostles baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus in obedience to Jesus command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Matthew 28:19? If one refuses to accept that truth they are rejecting the word which is in fact a rejection of Jesus. (John 1:1)
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I understand you cannot baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit because you do not believe in them
you believe in something called ONENESS which means you do not believe in the Trinity so you cannot accept anything that states otherwise than what you believe
this is why you cannot accept anything that shows how wrong you are about baptism. it's so simple when what you actually believe finally comes to light
now feel free to tell us you are not a Oneness Pentecostal adherent. I have said this to you before and you have not denied it, so, for the benefit of the uninitiated, let's discuss Oneness Pentecostalism because that is really what you are promoting and water regeneration is more of a distraction from the main event
There is Only One God
Oneness Pentecostals declare that the Godhead consists of only one Person and deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. They maintain that the only real “person” in the Godhead is Jesus. Thus, they are often referred to as the “Jesus Only” Movement. They maintain that God exists in two modes, as the Father in heaven and as Jesus the Son on earth. Nevertheless, they are the same person, not two separate persons. The Holy Spirit is not regarded as a person at all, merely a manifestation of Jesus’ power or a synonym for Him. Several verses are quoted to establish this view such as Colossians 2:9 (NKJV), “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” Oneness theologians would argue that if the Father and the Son were separate, then the Godhead could not fully dwell in Christ. They also look to Matthew 28:19 to affirm their views that Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the “name” (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
boy howdy does that ^^^^^^^ever look familiar and just about what you say on every page
let's discuss your persuasions from the actual beliefs of your sect which go further than water regeneration
and again, just say you are no Oneness Pentecostal even though you have several times alluded to the fact that Jesus is the name of God and we should only baptize in Jesus name because there is no other name
you believe in something called ONENESS which means you do not believe in the Trinity so you cannot accept anything that states otherwise than what you believe
this is why you cannot accept anything that shows how wrong you are about baptism. it's so simple when what you actually believe finally comes to light
now feel free to tell us you are not a Oneness Pentecostal adherent. I have said this to you before and you have not denied it, so, for the benefit of the uninitiated, let's discuss Oneness Pentecostalism because that is really what you are promoting and water regeneration is more of a distraction from the main event
There is Only One God
Oneness Pentecostals declare that the Godhead consists of only one Person and deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. They maintain that the only real “person” in the Godhead is Jesus. Thus, they are often referred to as the “Jesus Only” Movement. They maintain that God exists in two modes, as the Father in heaven and as Jesus the Son on earth. Nevertheless, they are the same person, not two separate persons. The Holy Spirit is not regarded as a person at all, merely a manifestation of Jesus’ power or a synonym for Him. Several verses are quoted to establish this view such as Colossians 2:9 (NKJV), “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” Oneness theologians would argue that if the Father and the Son were separate, then the Godhead could not fully dwell in Christ. They also look to Matthew 28:19 to affirm their views that Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the “name” (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
boy howdy does that ^^^^^^^ever look familiar and just about what you say on every page
let's discuss your persuasions from the actual beliefs of your sect which go further than water regeneration
and again, just say you are no Oneness Pentecostal even though you have several times alluded to the fact that Jesus is the name of God and we should only baptize in Jesus name because there is no other name
