How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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I agree that all these passages agree with each other.
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see.
)
Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see.
)Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
I agree that all these passages agree with each other.
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see. )
Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see.
)Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
This would be a violation of Scripture as found in Genesis.
Anyone who says our Lord Returns Twice = Once in the Clouds and then AGAIN (Third Coming) on earth is in error....
and committing a clear violation of an IRREVOCABLE Commandment given from Genesis to Revelation.
This Irrevocable Commandment, in easy to understand summary, is stated in Proverbs 30 and REPEATED in Revelation 22
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Prov 30: 5-6
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22: 18-19
It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them. 20After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side.
Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.
Now Thomas called Didymus,d one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”
26Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 1:9
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
There is only one Second Coming of Christ/His Return for His Bride/His Elect/His Living Stones/His Church/His Saints/His Overcomers
Jesus said: "Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;" John 16:10
Did Jesus Lie to His disciples as recorded in John 16:10 ?
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Dear Sister, When you have time, please list the many different names of our Lord from OT to Revelation = but still the SAME Lord.
Likewise, if you could, list the many different names given in Scripture to us His Children = but we remain the SAME - His Bride.
As you know, it is easy to come up with any opinion one believes by using words to deceive.............
Likewise, if you could, list the many different names given in Scripture to us His Children = but we remain the SAME - His Bride.
As you know, it is easy to come up with any opinion one believes by using words to deceive.............
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I agree that all these passages agree with each other.
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see. )
Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see.
)Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
"I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them."
If the Scripture, which cannot lie, AGREE with each other - then there is no error.
Now, if we do the word twister dance we can come up with any opinionated doctrine we please.
So, in what way, am i presenting them, that you are concerned about - Peace my brother
I apologize, I'm just now seeing this post of yours.
Here's some of the points, in brief, that I've put forward:
--"OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" (2Th2:1) I equate with what is being said here: "TO the meeting OF THE LORD in the air" (1Th4:17)... in both of these verses, I understand that some type of "movement / re-location" of us is taking place.
"harpagēsometha [G726 - harpazo]" is simply the VERB-ACTION (one could call it the "SNATCH-action") that "moves" us from the one place TO the other place;
--I've made the point that Paul speaks concerning that particular subject, more than merely just in verse 1Th4:17, but something like 8-10 times in these two Thessalonian epistles, using a variety of terms and phrases (granted, only here in 1Th4:17 is the verb SNATCH-action term being used, which is simply describing "how it's gonna go down" [so to speak]); not all of his references to it are in "verb" form... some of them, like in 2Th2:1 and the latter part of 1Th4:17 (which two verses I mentioned above) use NOUNS to tell of it;
--I find it somewhat cumbersome and also CONFUSING to some readers if I were to continually (or ONLY) refer to "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [as being] when we (the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY, ONLY) will GO "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR," and have the readers (sometimes new believers) grasp what it is I'm actually referring to, in a drive-by-reading or readings ... so when I use the term "OUR Rapture," I'm simply referring to the point in time when the verb-action "harpagēsometha [G726 - harpazo]" (pertaining solely to the Church which is His body / US) will change our location. I find it easier for ppl to grasp, since the modern reader is at least familiar with the term "rapture," and not so much when it comes to the term "episynagoges [UNTO HIM]" which they might find confusing;
--another example: ppl a continually conflating the terms "resurrect/resurrected" and "rapture/raptured" (they are not the same, of course)... or the phrase "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE first" [incorrectly] as "shall GO UP TO the meeting of the Lord in the air [PRIOR TO when the "we which are ALIVE and remain" will do so--but it does not mean that]"... I simply try my best to convey what I'm speaking about in terms people are familiar with, and then endeavor to provide explanation where required or requested
Hope that helps you see where I am coming from when I type out the words "OUR Rapture". = )
Here's some of the points, in brief, that I've put forward:
--"OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" (2Th2:1) I equate with what is being said here: "TO the meeting OF THE LORD in the air" (1Th4:17)... in both of these verses, I understand that some type of "movement / re-location" of us is taking place.
"harpagēsometha [G726 - harpazo]" is simply the VERB-ACTION (one could call it the "SNATCH-action") that "moves" us from the one place TO the other place;
--I've made the point that Paul speaks concerning that particular subject, more than merely just in verse 1Th4:17, but something like 8-10 times in these two Thessalonian epistles, using a variety of terms and phrases (granted, only here in 1Th4:17 is the verb SNATCH-action term being used, which is simply describing "how it's gonna go down" [so to speak]); not all of his references to it are in "verb" form... some of them, like in 2Th2:1 and the latter part of 1Th4:17 (which two verses I mentioned above) use NOUNS to tell of it;
--I find it somewhat cumbersome and also CONFUSING to some readers if I were to continually (or ONLY) refer to "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [as being] when we (the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY, ONLY) will GO "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR," and have the readers (sometimes new believers) grasp what it is I'm actually referring to, in a drive-by-reading or readings
... so when I use the term "OUR Rapture," I'm simply referring to the point in time when the verb-action "harpagēsometha [G726 - harpazo]" (pertaining solely to the Church which is His body / US) will change our location. I find it easier for ppl to grasp, since the modern reader is at least familiar with the term "rapture," and not so much when it comes to the term "episynagoges [UNTO HIM]" which they might find confusing;--another example: ppl a continually conflating the terms "resurrect/resurrected" and "rapture/raptured" (they are not the same, of course)... or the phrase "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE first" [incorrectly] as "shall GO UP TO the meeting of the Lord in the air [PRIOR TO when the "we which are ALIVE and remain" will do so--but it does not mean that]"... I simply try my best to convey what I'm speaking about in terms people are familiar with, and then endeavor to provide explanation where required or requested
Hope that helps you see where I am coming from when I type out the words "OUR Rapture". = )
This post is an excellent example of making A MISHMASH out of Scripture passages. So let's take each one and apply it where it belongs.
I will simply ignore this snide comment. But sniping is all that is possible when there is no substance.
This is patently false and is refuted by 1 Thess 4:16.17. The resurrected saints meet the Lord "in the air".
This remark displays a gross ignorance about the separate reasons for the Rapture and the Second Coming. See John 14:1-3.
This passage is clearly applicable to THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. See Revelation 19. It has nothing to do with the Rapture.
This too is applicable to the SECOND COMING when Christ comes to earth with His saints and angels. See Revelation 19 and other related passages.
How can anyone in their right mind imagine that when Christ comes to wreak vengeance at the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19) and execute judgment (Jude 1:14,15) that is anyone's "Blessed Hope"? Therefore this verse is about the Resurrection/Rapture, which is indeed the Blessed Hope of the saints.
This passage and the one from Luke 21 quoted below it are clearly about the SECOND COMING. And it should be clear from 1 Thess 4:13-18 that Christ does NOT send out His angels to gather the Church. He comes for them personally as the Divine Bridegroom. As He stated in John 14 "I will come again and receive you unto MYSELF". So the "elect" is this passage are the believing Jewish remnant, who will be gathered to Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. There are many OT prophecies which relate to this ingathering of believing Israel.
As we can see Lucy simply made a terrible MISHMASH of unrelated passages. Hopefully she (and others) will learn to discern between what is for salvation and what is for damnation.
I will simply ignore this snide comment. But sniping is all that is possible when there is no substance.
This is patently false and is refuted by 1 Thess 4:16.17. The resurrected saints meet the Lord "in the air".
This remark displays a gross ignorance about the separate reasons for the Rapture and the Second Coming. See John 14:1-3.
This passage is clearly applicable to THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. See Revelation 19. It has nothing to do with the Rapture.
This too is applicable to the SECOND COMING when Christ comes to earth with His saints and angels. See Revelation 19 and other related passages.
How can anyone in their right mind imagine that when Christ comes to wreak vengeance at the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19) and execute judgment (Jude 1:14,15) that is anyone's "Blessed Hope"? Therefore this verse is about the Resurrection/Rapture, which is indeed the Blessed Hope of the saints.
This passage and the one from Luke 21 quoted below it are clearly about the SECOND COMING. And it should be clear from 1 Thess 4:13-18 that Christ does NOT send out His angels to gather the Church. He comes for them personally as the Divine Bridegroom. As He stated in John 14 "I will come again and receive you unto MYSELF". So the "elect" is this passage are the believing Jewish remnant, who will be gathered to Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. There are many OT prophecies which relate to this ingathering of believing Israel.
As we can see Lucy simply made a terrible MISHMASH of unrelated passages. Hopefully she (and others) will learn to discern between what is for salvation and what is for damnation.
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Again, biblically speaking, the word "RETURN" (re: Jesus) speaks ONLY OF the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH... we "pre-tribbers" AGREE He will only do that ONCE (in Rev19; See "RETURN" as used re: Jesus, in Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]; and in Lk19:12,15,17,19--BOTH PASSAGES [and their numerous parallels] speak of His Second Coming to the earth [NOT to the time of our RAPTURE IN THE AIR]).
"APPEAR [passive; G3708]" occurred (as it pertained to PAUL--the passages telling of how Jesus APPEARED to Paul)...it was from Jesus' position UP IN HEAVEN (and Paul was on the earth, on the road to Damascus); The word you are wanting to point out in the verse you are suggesting ("a SECOND TIME shall APPEAR" Heb9:27-28) , does not have to refer EITHER to "His RETURN"/His Second Advent (to the earth) OR to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," see...
In what we commonly call "His FIRST Advent," He did BOTH of the following:
--"...shall he COME forth unto Me [that is] is to be ruler in Israel..." Micah 5:2
--"...behold, thy King COMETH unto thee; ... riding upon..." Zech9:9 (shown in Lk19:30-44--the very day that the "69 Weeks [total]" were completed)
Now, which of these TWO "COME" words concerning Jesus pertained to what we call "His FIRST Advent"? Just the first reference, when He was BORN, or do BOTH references speak of it even though those two "COME" things took place some THIRTY YEARS APART?? And note, the phrases "His FIRST Advent" and "His SECOND Advent" are terms we humans have come up with to APPLY to what it is we are talking about, so that the listener can understand what we intend...
"APPEAR [passive; G3708]" occurred (as it pertained to PAUL--the passages telling of how Jesus APPEARED to Paul)...it was from Jesus' position UP IN HEAVEN (and Paul was on the earth, on the road to Damascus); The word you are wanting to point out in the verse you are suggesting ("a SECOND TIME shall APPEAR" Heb9:27-28) , does not have to refer EITHER to "His RETURN"/His Second Advent (to the earth) OR to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," see...
In what we commonly call "His FIRST Advent," He did BOTH of the following:
--"...shall he COME forth unto Me [that is] is to be ruler in Israel..." Micah 5:2
--"...behold, thy King COMETH unto thee; ... riding upon..." Zech9:9 (shown in Lk19:30-44--the very day that the "69 Weeks [total]" were completed)
Now, which of these TWO "COME" words concerning Jesus pertained to what we call "His FIRST Advent"? Just the first reference, when He was BORN, or do BOTH references speak of it even though those two "COME" things took place some THIRTY YEARS APART?? And note, the phrases "His FIRST Advent" and "His SECOND Advent" are terms we humans have come up with to APPLY to what it is we are talking about, so that the listener can understand what we intend...
According to Scripture, the Physical Atmosphere and the Earth are connected as ONE physical biological environment that cannot be separated from each other, they are a contained unit including the Seas/Oceans/Waterways - above, at ground level and below.
This is clear in Genesis where God created this CONTAINED UNIT (earth, water, atmosphere) we call the earth/creation of the physical environment which your physical body is attached to.
The one and ONLY Second Coming of our Lord has MULTIPLE applications/processes/judgements/fulfillments/Promises as we are told in Scripture.
The error of pre-trib seeks to undermine and disrupt the ORDER given in Scripture.
First things FIRST - The FIRST Resurrection FIRST - After that we who are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Scripture cannot lie
This is clear in Genesis where God created this CONTAINED UNIT (earth, water, atmosphere) we call the earth/creation of the physical environment which your physical body is attached to.
The one and ONLY Second Coming of our Lord has MULTIPLE applications/processes/judgements/fulfillments/Promises as we are told in Scripture.
The error of pre-trib seeks to undermine and disrupt the ORDER given in Scripture.
First things FIRST - The FIRST Resurrection FIRST - After that we who are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Scripture cannot lie
I agree that all these passages agree with each other.
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see. )
Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
I disagree with the way in which you are presenting them.
Example: Jesus' VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1:9-11 ^ , took place some "40 Days" AFTER His FIRST ascension ON FIRSTFRUIT (i.e. His Resurrection Day), when He told Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]" John 20:17--He did so[!]... thus fulfilling "Firstfruit" (Leviticus 23:10-12) ON THAT VERY DAY (the day He rose out-from the dead, which was the very day known as "Firstfruit").
It is the SECOND one in Acts 1:9-11 (His VISIBLE ascension, some "40 days" LATER) that is stated to be the manner in which He "shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN Him going [/traveling] INTO Heaven" (i.e. VISIBLY MANIFEST!).
His FIRST ascension (some "40 days" EARLIER, ON "Firstfruit"--Lev23:10-12; and TOLD BY JESUS to MM) was not "visible," was not stated to occur "visibly," and was not stated by anyone to be "the manner in which" He will return, like His VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1 is stated that it will occur.
Thus, Acts 1:9-11 INDEED is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth at Rev19 (same as Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about!), AFTER / AT END of the Trib yrs. Pre-tribbers (such as myself) AGREE with that! (I hope you are not suggesting that we do NOT agree with that! That would be a FALSE accusation, see.
)Scripture does not lie... but humans can be badly mistaken on just what Scripture itself is saying, and how it all fits together CHRONOLOGICALLY (as, say, the "amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding "chronology" in the text, for example...)
And you just, in fact, committed the human mistake of "adding to and taking away" from Scripture to make your idol stand.
The Atmosphere, the Earth, the Waters are the ONE Contained UNIT of the Physical Creation.
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. -v36
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. -v7
Matthew 24:36 and Acts 1:7 are in AGREEMENT - No pre-fib rapture - The only one disagreeing with Scripture is you.
Now you can go to the Lord and receive forgiveness and healing from religion.
Scripture cannot lie
Here's the thing...
The word "knows" in this text, is not saying "no one CAN EVER know," nor is it saying "no one WILL EVER know," or anything like that.
"Know" is in the "PERFECT indicative" here... which the "PERFECT TENSE" is defined as "action completed at a specific point OF TIME IN PAST, with RESULTS continuing INTO THE PRESENT. In *CERTAIN* contexts, the RESULTS are PERMANENT."
This means that (in some contexts) it can be the case that "FURTHER INFORMATION" has been supplied that can CHANGE THAT STATUS.
After Jesus ascended, He then "KNEW" and He LATER supplied "FURTHER INFORMATION" (on THAT Subject) in "[The] Revelation" written some SIXTY-plus YEARS AFTER His resurrection / ascension / exaltation in 33ad (Revelation written about "95ad")
And this is the exact thing we see written in the FIRST VERSE of Revelation (1:1):
[in 95ad] "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..."
...and the rest of that Book supplies NUMEROUS time-stamps and timing indicators that reveal the timing issues OF THAT VERY SUBJECT (the Subject of Matt24:36 and parallel passages all saying the same: "But of that day and hour KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative] no man..." [not even Jesus, at the time spoken (BEFORE His death and resurrection and ascension/exaltation)]--But now He knows perfectly and He LATER [in 95ad] supplied that "FURTHER INFORMATION" in the "Revelation")
It is not accurate to say that the "of that day and hour no one WILL EVER *KNOW*"
The word "knows" in this text, is not saying "no one CAN EVER know," nor is it saying "no one WILL EVER know," or anything like that.
"Know" is in the "PERFECT indicative" here... which the "PERFECT TENSE" is defined as "action completed at a specific point OF TIME IN PAST, with RESULTS continuing INTO THE PRESENT. In *CERTAIN* contexts, the RESULTS are PERMANENT."
This means that (in some contexts) it can be the case that "FURTHER INFORMATION" has been supplied that can CHANGE THAT STATUS.
After Jesus ascended, He then "KNEW" and He LATER supplied "FURTHER INFORMATION" (on THAT Subject) in "[The] Revelation" written some SIXTY-plus YEARS AFTER His resurrection / ascension / exaltation in 33ad (Revelation written about "95ad")
And this is the exact thing we see written in the FIRST VERSE of Revelation (1:1):
[in 95ad] "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..."
...and the rest of that Book supplies NUMEROUS time-stamps and timing indicators that reveal the timing issues OF THAT VERY SUBJECT (the Subject of Matt24:36 and parallel passages all saying the same: "But of that day and hour KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative] no man..." [not even Jesus, at the time spoken (BEFORE His death and resurrection and ascension/exaltation)]--But now He knows perfectly and He LATER [in 95ad] supplied that "FURTHER INFORMATION" in the "Revelation")
It is not accurate to say that the "of that day and hour no one WILL EVER *KNOW*"