How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheDivineWatermark]

That is the word I was referring to when I wrote 'rapture.' Parousia is a different word.

I see... I guess I need to go back and look at the CONTEXT of what you two were actually talking about. lol




Here it is:

Nehemiah6 said:
The Greek word parousia happens to be used for BOTH the Rapture and the Second Coming. (However there are also other Greek words used in this connection). But for anyone to confuse the two events means that they do not understand the reasons for either.

What I read Nehemiah to be intending here is, that the word "parousia" is used in BOTH CONTEXTS of the time surrounding when we are "caught up / raptured" (TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR--WHERE His "presence" WILL BE at that point) AND [used also] at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth, though being at distinct time-slots (due to CONTEXT, where each is used)

 

[DavidTree]

In Scripture, one will never find the phrase "SECOND resurrection" (nor the phrase "SECOND coming," for that matter).

What I believe you are referring to is the phrase "the second DEATH".

What Rev20:6 is saying is "Blessed and holy is the one HAVING A PART IN the resurrection THE FIRST [adjective]" (speaking of "resurrection OF LIFE" rather than "resurrection of DAMNATION / JUDGMENT"--So, pertaining to "the resurrection of the JUST/RIGHTEOUS" ["first"=a QUALITY... the one being "OF LIFE"])

The thing is, 1Cor15:23 states "[re: resurrection] But EACH [a word meaning, 'of more than two'] in his own ORDER / RANK" (meaning that there is an ORDER / RANK to it... not that there remains ONLY ONE occurrence at a SINULAR POINT IN TIME--example: the "2 Witnesses" will be RESURRECTED from the dead at the "6th Trumpet [events / 2nd Woe," that is, at a time-slot COMPLETELY DISTINCT from when ALL OTHER saints will be! And they will ascend up into Heaven after they are resurrected from the dead, even)

YEAH, You finally found the FIRST Resurrection in Revelation 20:6

i see you have your religion blender out =

TODAY'S Pre-Trib RECIPE : Just add = 1 Cor 15:23 with (+) add in your words = "not that there remains ONLY ONE occurrence at a SINULAR POINT IN TIME" and "a time-slot COMPLETELY DISTINCT from when ALL OTHER saints will be"
Now hit BLEND and out comes a lie called pre-trib rapture and more then one First Resurrection for His Bride/the Elect/Saints

Why does the FIRST Resurrection occur sometime here, Revelation ch 20, in Scripture?

Here is a clue, It is where our Lord Jesus Christ places it - amen.

Or, do you believe you have higher knowledge/understanding then our Lord Jesus, the apostle Paul and the apostle John?

We NEVER see any Scripture in the Gospels or Letters or Revelation of more then one Second Coming of Christ.

We NEVER see any Scripture in the Gospels or Letters or Revelation of more then one First Resurrection at His Second Coming.

The Two Witness are on SPECIAL Assignment from our Lord. Just as two angels (men in white) were sent to speak in Acts 1: 9-11
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

Who knows ? Maybe these 'two men in white' were a preview of the Two Witnesses - we do not know.
One thing we do know is - they were on Special Assignment from our Lord Jesus as they 'APPEARED SUDDENLY'.

Why do you reject the clear order of Scripture? is it not that you have an idol, created by men, called pre-trib theory.....

The Scripture cannot lie

 

[presidente]

παρουσία parousía, par-oo-see'-ah; from the present participle of G3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect, presence.

Wow! Propping up an eschatological position by putting it in the dictionary definition of a Greek word!

 

[presidente]

I see... I guess I need to go back and look at the CONTEXT of what you two were actually talking about. lol




Here it is:



What I read Nehemiah to be intending here is, that the word "parousia" is used in BOTH CONTEXTS of the time surrounding when we are "caught up / raptured" (TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR--WHERE His "presence" WILL BE at that point) AND [used also] at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth, though being at distinct time-slots (due to CONTEXT, where each is used)

Since He executes vengence on them that know not God, why would you think His 'presence' remains in the air.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[...] Just as two angels (men in white) were sent to speak in Acts 1: 9-11
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, [...]

I don't really find the word "suddenly" in that text (v.10), but instead, the following word:

Strong's Concordance
idou: look, behold
Original Word: ἰδού
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: idou
Phonetic Spelling: (id-oo')
Definition: look, behold
Usage: See! Lo! Behold! Look!.


HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2400 idoú (a demonstrative particle, used chiefly in the LXX for hinnēh; "properly, the imperative, the aorist middle of eidon/horáō, to see," Abbott-Smith, BAGD) – behold, which especially calls attention to what follows from it. See 2396 (ide).

[end quoting; https://biblehub.com/greek/2400.htm ]


____________


However, there is another verse where I DO see the word "suddenly":

Berean Literal Bible
Now in proceeding, it came to pass as he draws near to Damascus, suddenly also a light from heaven flashed around him. ["him"=Paul]

King James Bible
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him [/Paul] a light from heaven:

--Acts 9:3






[note to readers: recall I see Paul as a TYPE of "the 144,000"... not a type of the "two witnesses"... not that DavidTree was suggesting such a thing... I'm just clarifying what it is that I am putting forth... for your consideration...]

 

[rayzor]

YEAH, You finally found the FIRST Resurrection in Revelation 20:6

i see you have your religion blender out =

TODAY'S Pre-Trib RECIPE : Just add = 1 Cor 15:23 with (+) add in your words = "not that there remains ONLY ONE occurrence at a SINULAR POINT IN TIME" and "a time-slot COMPLETELY DISTINCT from when ALL OTHER saints will be"
Now hit BLEND and out comes a lie called pre-trib rapture and more then one First Resurrection for His Bride/the Elect/Saints

Why does the FIRST Resurrection occur sometime here, Revelation ch 20, in Scripture?

Here is a clue, It is where our Lord Jesus Christ places it - amen.

Or, do you believe you have higher knowledge/understanding then our Lord Jesus, the apostle Paul and the apostle John?

We NEVER see any Scripture in the Gospels or Letters or Revelation of more then one Second Coming of Christ.

We NEVER see any Scripture in the Gospels or Letters or Revelation of more then one First Resurrection at His Second Coming.

The Two Witness are on SPECIAL Assignment from our Lord. Just as two angels (men in white) were sent to speak in Acts 1: 9-11
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

Who knows ? Maybe these 'two men in white' were a preview of the Two Witnesses - we do not know.
One thing we do know is - they were on Special Assignment from our Lord Jesus as they 'APPEARED SUDDENLY'.

Why do you reject the clear order of Scripture? is it not that you have an idol, created by men, called pre-trib theory.....

The Scripture cannot lie

yes but it can be handle falsely.....In 1631 Exodus 20:14...one bible read thou shall commit adultery [bible errata] = bible errors

 

[rayzor]

KJV Translation Count — Total: 213x the word idoú
The KJV translates Strong's G2400 in the following manner: behold (181x), lo (29x), see (3x).

 

[DavidTree]

I don't really find the word "suddenly" in that text (v.10), but instead, the following word:

Strong's Concordance
idou: look, behold
Original Word: ἰδού
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: idou
Phonetic Spelling: (id-oo')
Definition: look, behold
Usage: See! Lo! Behold! Look!.


HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2400 idoú (a demonstrative particle, used chiefly in the LXX for hinnēh; "properly, the imperative, the aorist middle of eidon/horáō, to see," Abbott-Smith, BAGD) – behold, which especially calls attention to what follows from it. See 2396 (ide).

[end quoting; https://biblehub.com/greek/2400.htm ]


____________


However, there is another verse where I DO see the word "suddenly":

Berean Literal Bible
Now in proceeding, it came to pass as he draws near to Damascus, suddenly also a light from heaven flashed around him. ["him"=Paul]

King James Bible
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him [/Paul] a light from heaven:

--Acts 9:3






[note to readers: recall I see Paul as a TYPE of "the 144,000"... not a type of the "two witnesses"... not that DavidTree was suggesting such a thing... I'm just clarifying what it is that I am putting forth... for your consideration...]

correct - suddenly does not appear(pun intended) in KJ version - thank you for that

Here is KJ version: Acts 1:10

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

this word is used in Scripture as a 'WAKE UP' call to their audience - we see it in the Gospels as well
So the word 'suddenly' is appropriate in other versions when used with this understanding.

Secondly, it is CLEAR that these 'two men dressed in white' are not part of the Disciples.
For the Two Men in White separate themselves from the group saying- “Men of Galilee"

Thirdly, they give a CLEAR Prophetic Word from the Lord:

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Amen

 

[DavidTree]

I don't really find the word "suddenly" in that text (v.10), but instead, the following word:

Strong's Concordance
idou: look, behold
Original Word: ἰδού
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: idou
Phonetic Spelling: (id-oo')
Definition: look, behold
Usage: See! Lo! Behold! Look!.


HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2400 idoú (a demonstrative particle, used chiefly in the LXX for hinnēh; "properly, the imperative, the aorist middle of eidon/horáō, to see," Abbott-Smith, BAGD) – behold, which especially calls attention to what follows from it. See 2396 (ide).

[end quoting; https://biblehub.com/greek/2400.htm ]


____________


However, there is another verse where I DO see the word "suddenly":

Berean Literal Bible
Now in proceeding, it came to pass as he draws near to Damascus, suddenly also a light from heaven flashed around him. ["him"=Paul]

King James Bible
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him [/Paul] a light from heaven:

--Acts 9:3






[note to readers: recall I see Paul as a TYPE of "the 144,000"... not a type of the "two witnesses"... not that DavidTree was suggesting such a thing... I'm just clarifying what it is that I am putting forth... for your consideration...]

Add this to my post = Post # 268

Who are these Two Men in White? - They could be the Two Witnesses who show up again in Revelation.
We do not know for certain.

We DO KNOW they were on Special Assignment from the Lord.

We DO KNOW they WITNESSED for the Lord to the 'Men of Galilee' - His Disciples.
For they CONFIRMED the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in/on the Clouds.

Our Lord will plant His feet on earth at His Second Coming but NOT until He First comes in/on the Clouds with Great Glory.

King of kings, our Lord Jesus Christ also brings with Him the SAINTS who have waited for the First Resurrection.

Dear Brother Watermark,
Adding to and taking away from Scripture is SIN. It comes from religion and religious men - flee from it.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him

Take Refuge in the Word of God and reject the words of men.

 

[Absolutely]

To keep it brief there are three view of the Rapture or catching up of the Church to Heaven:
1. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture means that there is no connection between the Tribulation period and the Rapture (which has always been imminent). This is the true biblical doctrine.

2. Mid-Tribulationism postulates that the Rapture is only after the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week and that the Church does go through the Tribulation (which corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist).

3. Post-Tribulationism postulates that the Rapture is only after both the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation at the end of Daniel's 70th week. IOW the saints are subject to the wrath of God, contrary to Scripture.

If you are referring to the Lord's Return/the Resurrection/ and the Rapture - you are correct.

If you are referring to pre-trib rapture -- you are incorrect. According to the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles.

pre-trib rapture never came out of our Lord's mouth nor the Apostles.

The serpent - yes!

You think lot was removed AFTER the judgement of sodom?

The baby Jesus was removed after the destruction of the firstborn by herod?

Btw JESUS SAID " PRAY that you may be counted WORTHY. to ESCAPE the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God".
JESUS SAID " Because you have kept the word of my testimony, i will keep you from the testing..."

It is written

 

[rayzor]

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

 

[DavidTree]

You think lot was removed AFTER the judgement of sodom?

The baby Jesus was removed after the destruction of the firstborn by herod?

Btw JESUS SAID " PRAY that you may be counted WORTHY. to ESCAPE the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God".
JESUS SAID " Because you have kept the word of my testimony, i will keep you from the testing..."

It is written

The error of pre-trib does not stop there - it continues unto more error - such as confusing Tribulation with God's Wrath.

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 1:10
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thess 5:9

Tribulation comes from the world who hates the Lord Jesus Christ and His Bride - the Elect of God

Jesus said: These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33

strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith,
and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 4: 22

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me,
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
Revelation 7:13-15

pre-trib teaches fearing tribulation and offers a easy way out - through a lie, that will severely hurt those who believe it

I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1 John 2:21

Our Lord Jesus is returning for His Bride - at His Coming

Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way to you.
And may the Lord cause you to increase and overflow with love for one another and for everyone else, just as our love for you overflows, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
1 Thess 3

Scripture cannot lie

 

[DavidTree]

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

Jesus said: These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33

The victory is the Lord will never leave us nor forsake us - especially when we go through tribulations.

 

[DavidTree]

yes but it can be handle falsely.....In 1631 Exodus 20:14...one bible read thou shall commit adultery [bible errata] = bible errors

We are not dealing with biblical writing errors here.

We are exposing false teaching through the surety and protection of Truth in Scripture.

You, however, have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
I have not written to you because you lack knowledge of the truth, but because you have it,
and because no lie comes from the truth.
1 John 2:21

 

[DavidTree]

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

And if a 'Living Stone' of His Holy Temple were to die during Tribulation - Did our Lord Jesus fail to deliver them from tribulation?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

pre-trib teaches fearing tribulation and offers a easy way out - through a lie, that will severely hurt those who believe it

No "pre-trib" does not teach such a thing...

... the pre-trib viewpoint acknowledges (like Paul acknowledged) that even the Thessalonians BACK THEN were experiencing "persecutions and tribulations which YE ENDURE" 2Th1:4, as well as saying basically the same in 2Cor1:4 and 2Cor1:8 (in the singular, and with the definite article) "the tribulation of us" in their day [SAME WORD you're speaking of] ... (and it is NO DIFFERENT for us in our own day! NOW!)

"The Church which is His body" has indeed experienced this throughout its entire existence on the earth since the first century [some near 2000 years!]; we are not awaiting the future, specific, LIMITED time-period [the seven years] IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE it.

That's just silly.



[no one is teaching ppl to "fear" ONLY TRIBULATION in that future 7-yr period. That's just silly talk!]

 

[rayzor]

And if a 'Living Stone' of His Holy Temple were to die during Tribulation - Did our Lord Jesus fail to deliver them from tribulation?

1 The context is important some die 2 self yes and die of the body.Some skip that part because they behave themselves...bad guy get a Jezebel Trib if they don't repent.Jesus said some go though Trib because they worthy I think so anyway?

 

[DavidTree]

No "pre-trib" does not teach such a thing...

... the pre-trib viewpoint acknowledges (like Paul acknowledged) that even the Thessalonians BACK THEN were experiencing "persecutions and tribulations which YE ENDURE" 2Th1:4, as well as saying basically the same in 2Cor1:4 and 2Cor1:8 (in the singular, and with the definite article) "the tribulation of us" in their day [SAME WORD you're speaking of] ... (and it is NO DIFFERENT for us in our own day! NOW!)

"The Church which is His body" has indeed experienced this throughout its entire existence on the earth since the first century [some near 2000 years!]; we are not awaiting the future, specific, LIMITED time-period [the seven years] IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE it.

That's just silly.



[no one is teaching ppl to "fear" ONLY TRIBULATION in that future 7-yr period. That's just silly talk!]

The error of pre-trib does not stop there - it continues unto more error - such as confusing Tribulation with God's Wrath

pre-trib teaches fearing tribulation and offers a easy way out - through a lie, that will severely hurt those who believe it

These statements are true and have been proven true many times on these forums and in first hand accounts coming from the mouths of those who follow it.

The very title of this error go against our Lord's words and the words/teachings of the Apostles as i and others have posted.

God is not the author of confusion - for no lie is of the Truth

i see that you are unable to meet the challenge of, and for Truth.

$1,000 (US dollars) to the first person that can show the scripture(s) that clearly state: The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church is pre-tribulation raptured before the First Resurrection and before the Antichrist. The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Church as a whole Body of Believers.

*** IMPORTANT - Individual believers/resurrections/raptures such as Enoch, Elijah, Lazarrus, John and the Saints from Matthew 27:51-53 (which is the fulfillment of Isaiah 26:19) = DO NOT QUALIFY.

Rules have been set forth by the Moderator = our Lord Jesus Christ

Rules Apply: ONLY Scripture: No Conjecture - No Commentaries - No personal belief statements

Rules for Disqualification: Seeking to Argue/Arguments - Adding to or taking away from God's Word - Personal Belief Statements - Conjecture

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19

Proverbs 30: 5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:1-2 Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

EXAMPLE to Follow as Your Guide: Show Proof (Scripture) that Jesus is the ONLY way we can be saved.

ANSWER(S): John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
Acts 4:11-12 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

 

[DavidTree]

1 The context is important some die 2 self yes and die of the body.Some skip that part because they behave themselfs...bad guy get a Jezebel Trib if they don't repent.Jesus said some go though because worthy

Please clarify as i did not fully understand your statement - thank you my brother

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

I was reading something interesting about a particular word in this verse - 1Sam10:19 (as found in the LXX / Septuagint):

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1sa/10/19/ss0/t_concr_246019 [you have to click on the tab "Septuagint" to see it]

The word I'm referring to is in the latter part of the verse, the one where no Strong's Number has been supplied for it at this BLB page (where is says "Not Available"--scroll down to see that--after you select "Septuagint")... it's the word "SKEPTRA"...

... and it is a word used also in Hab3:9 LXX [/Septuagint] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/hab/3/9/t_conc_906009 [again, you have to manually select "Septuagint" as it doesn't automatically pop up showing the "Septuagint" part--it's the 8th word down].



The article I was reading said something about the word "skeptra" as having the meaning of "spear" (and went on to say some interesting things about it... in the small excerpt I was reading about the word)