Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[Rondonmon]

Finishing up here............

Stephen is stoned in 34AD. Paul is commissioned to take the gospel to the gentiles. From that point forward Judea and the Jews were in judgment. The kingdom was taken from them. Dead. 70 "sevens" Prophecy/countdown complete.

As I stated, the temple was split into at Jesus' death, but Israel was IN JUDGMENT since they were carried away to Babylon, that Judgment could not stop until Israel repented, which they have yet to do, but Israel was DEAD for 2000 years, so their judgment as a Nation ceased f that time because they were not a Nation unto God, thus they were blinded IN PART, meaning as a Nation, but not IN FULL, because individual Jews were not blinded, of course. The mantle was taken from them NOT the Kindom. Read the bible, it will tell you Jesus sets up his kingdom in Jerusalem amidst the Israelites.

Well, where's your proof that the covenant portion of the prophecy is about an antichrist? I've provided Messiah's own words showing He was fulfilling Daniel's covenant prophecy Himself.

No use in going back over this, I broke it down in one of my other two posts as per why the Anti-Christ is indeed the HE in the Dan. 9:26-27 verses. You provided nothing, you assume in error brother, you are not called unto Prophesy or this simple verse wouldn't stupefy you. You just don't get it tbh.

So you're telling me to ignore the Messiah's words (though He is "the scriptures made flesh") and instead accept your numerological meanings to help decypher the TRUER countdown of the prophecy even though God sent Gabriel to clarify it to Daniel?

No, I am telling you you don't even understand the IDIOM Jesus was using here. 7 and 10 basically mean COMPLETION and 12 means FULNESS. So, when Peter says 7 times, Jesus understood Peter was using the 7 the way God used the number 7, basically says so Jesus should I continually forgive my brothers (7 times) and Jesus understood but wanted to EMPHASIZE FORGIVENESS, so he sys not only 7 times but 70 x 7. God uses these the exact same way elsewhere, when God says he has saved Himself, 7000 men, he's TIMING te 7 (COMPLETION) by 10 and 10 and 10 thus God is SHOUTING, I have saved Myself not just 7 which means the complete number thereof, but He is OVER EMPHASIZING the point via tat multiplication!! He does the exact same thing with the 144,000, it's not 144,00 it's 3-5 million Jews who repent, Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 of the Jews repent, go look it up, thus there are 9 million Jews in Israel and 15 million Jews worldwide, HENCE the 3-5 million number.

Thus 12 (FULNESS) x 12 x 10 (COMPLETENESS) x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or ALL Isreal who repents. So, you do not get how these numbers are even used, you somehow associate them with ONLY Daniels Prophesy of 70 weeks, which tells me you are not very versed in Prophesy at all brother.

AMEN!

I think my reply went over your head here, let's leave it at that.

And before this was several other agreements including Oslo Accords between Israeli and Palestinians. Daniel's passage has nothing to do with a 7-year agreement made between an antichrist and Israel. The context of the prophecy is established in verse 24.

Daniel 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

All the rest that follows are the details to fulfill those elements. The "covenant made with many" is literally The new & everlasting covenant

This means you replied without even reading it because it's not about Palestine, it's about the European Union and AGREEMENTS with all of these nations, and ITSELF, it has nothing to do with peace between Israel and Palestine.
These AGREEMENTS, as I explained above in my other 2 posts above, are between the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Nations.

...but...The vision is explained by Gabriel in verses 20-25.

- The Ram is Medo-Persia

- The Goat from the West is Greece, its horn is the king (Alexander the Great went east and conquered Persia)

- Goat never touches the ground (Alexander conquered the known world quickly)

- Horn breaks (Alexander dies suddenly); four horns rise (His empire splits into 4 empires led by his 4 generals: Ptolemy, Seleucid Empire, the Attalid Dynasty, and Macedon.)

- At the end of their kingdoms, a fierce king rises up (Rome rises up and Attalus III bequeaths his kingdom to Rome)

- He shall destroy "the mighty and holy people" (No matter the incarnation, Rome has always been the cause of the Jews' suffering & destruction, whether Pagan Rome or Papal Rome. The banner of the Roman empire was "the Drago" [Dragon; Revelation 12] "The dragon chases the woman".

Your problem here is you do not understand what this means but you THINK YOU DO. It's sad tbh that people not in the know, have too much pride to be corrected. It's OK to be wrong, I was wrong many times and had to submit to God's clarity. You do OK until you get to Rome, it's not about Rome, this is about the Greek Kingdoms, you guys have to insert Rome to get YOUR DESIRED RESULT. This is about the Four Greek Kingdoms that arise and their inner-Greek Waring Factions. This is the ONLY REASON we get Daniel 11, we get all the Greek Kings from Alexander unto Antiochus in Dan. 11:21-34, THEN we get THE Anti-Christ from Dan. 11:36-45. TRY READING who he conquers in Dan. 11:40-43, he conquers Egypt at the VERY END, we know Antiochus was forbidden from conquering Egypt by a Roman Senator who drew a circle around himself and dared him to break that circle.

What I find with you guts who get some things wrong, you usually get a LOT OF THINGS VERY WRONG.

Dan. 8:9 tells us that this Little Horn Conquers from the Northwest, TOWARDS the East and South via these Four Kingdoms inter-battles, thus the Macedonian or Greece corridor is where this END TIME Little Horn/Anti-Christ comes from. NOTICE, in the LATTER TIME of THEIR Kingdom, Greece is still a Nation sir, don't try to twist and contort this, Daniel 7:11-12 says that these Beasts will CONTINUE LIVING even after they cease being Beasts. We know this because after Gabriel explains that this END TIME Little Horn will be KILLED and thrown into hell, we are ten tod about the OTHER BEASTS.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed(MAN not Rome), and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away(Lost Power): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, we are told this Little Horn MAN (who you say is Rome, SMH) is KILLED and then cast into hellfire (Rev. 19:20 says the exact same thing). Then we are told in passing about the OTHER BEASTS that all lost dominion (Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome). We know Babylon was where Alexander the Great lived until he died, and thus that city was prolonged a wee bit, but the Prophecy stated it would eventually become a DEAD CITY, and it has. Meanwhile, Rome (Italy) Greece (Greece), and Persia (Iran) are all stile Nations that LIVE as we speak. So, this LATTER TIME King refers to NOW, not 2000 years ago snd Rome. The Little Horns Conquerings match nothing in the past.

You are testifying of yourself, brother. It's not valid.

Jesus stated this about his Authority. He said another testifies of him, the Holy Spirit. Me saying you are wrong and the Holy Spirit has informed me differently is not me testifying of myself, LOL, that's an old Alinsky, devil type trick, Satan taught Alinksy his tactics. Those tactics will not work here. I am way too wise for that.

 

[Rondonmon]

Toss the blog and start over brother. That's the point, Israel had 490 years to repent and never did, so then they were judged in desolation and that judgment was just. Daniel 9 says "[prophecy] will end in desolation"...for rejecting him, the Messiah says "your house is left desolation"...the history books say "in 70AD Jerusalem was desolated" followed by centuries of great suffering and tribulation upon the Jews including expulsions and holocausts...and yet you say they haven't been judged yet? 2000 years of history doesn't count...but does...but doesn't?

Daniel's 70th Week Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression ( Israel has yet to repent, thus this transgression is ongoing )
2. Make an end of sins ( Israel still live in their sins, they will have to stop Wilfull Sin before this can happen )
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has not yet accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah )
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness ( When Israel finally repents this must usher in Everlasting Righteousness )
5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( When Israel repents this willseal up all prophetic events in history )
6. Anoint the most Holy ( Jesus is thus Anointed the King of kings and Lord of Lords when Israel repents )

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed, is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah, and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10/13:8-9) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when the Jewish people stop Wilfull Sins, then the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70-week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no willful sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, then “willful sins will end”.

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70-week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom in Jerusalem. This world has always had willful sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings. By the time Daniels's prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70-week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of lords and Kings of kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on this earth from Jerusalem.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass therefore this prophecy has not been fulfilled or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

 

[TheLearner]

This post proves you don't get it at all. The Feat of Trumps was always over a 2 day period, they had to send out two witnesses to determine when the "New Moon" was so they could start the Feast of Trumps, then they blew the Shofar 11 times in 9 groupings (99 times) but on the LAST TRUMP it was Longer and Louder than the other 99 and thus the Harvest (Church Age) was ENDED. Thus Paul's Last Trump unto Jews was understood to mean that the Harvest of Souls (Church Age Period) would end, and thus Jesus' quote, you can't know the day nr hour was also understood to be him pointing out that the day and hour of the Last Trump (look at Rev. 4:1 he is that Trumpet sound) was never a KNOWN ENTITY, that is what it means.

In the parable of the fig tree in Matt. 24:32-35 we see that Jesus says we can however know THE SEASON, which seems to go right over your head. So, a Jewish person waiting on the New Mon to end the Harvest knew it was in THE FALL, and over a two-day period, so they didn't know the exact day nor hour, but they most certainly knew THE SEASON. That Season can be seen as now, we just can know the exact day nor hour. You totally do not get these idioms Jesus used brother.

still sounds like a human invention. What are your sources? What book did you read? I had your game of traditions of men in mind. Also your special personal revelations claims in mind too. My paint brush was too wide. My spelling is murder today, eye problems again.

For information of other readers since my memory is weak today.
https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/newsletter/newsletter-sep-2000/the-feast-of-trumpets/
https://www.gotquestions.org/Feast-of-Trumpets.html
https://www.oneforisrael.org/holidays/the-feast-of-trumpets/
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5827-era

 

[TheLearner]

Read Lk 21…it is the sister passage of Mt 24 and clears up several things.

Luke 21
Easy-to-Read Version
True Giving
21 Jesus looked up and saw some rich people putting their gifts to God into the Temple collection box. 2 Then he saw a poor widow put two small copper coins into the box. 3 He said, “This poor widow gave only two small coins. But the truth is, she gave more than all those rich people. 4 They have plenty, and they gave only what they did not need. This woman is very poor, but she gave all she had to live on.”

Jesus Warns About the Future
5 Some of the followers were talking about the Temple. They said, “This is a beautiful Temple, built with the best stones. Look at the many good gifts that have been offered to God.”

6 But Jesus said, “The time will come when all that you see here will be destroyed. Every stone of these buildings will be thrown down to the ground. Not one stone will be left on another.”

7 Some followers asked Jesus, “Teacher, when will these things happen? What will show us that it is time for these things to happen?”

8 Jesus said, “Be careful! Don’t be fooled. Many people will come using my name. They will say, ‘I am the Messiah[a]’ and ‘The right time has come!’ But don’t follow them. 9 When you hear about wars and riots, don’t be afraid. These things must happen first. Then the end will come later.”

10 Then Jesus said to them, “Nations will fight against other nations. Kingdoms will fight against other kingdoms. 11 There will be great earthquakes, sicknesses, and other bad things in many places. In some places there will be no food for the people to eat. Terrible things will happen, and amazing things will come from heaven to warn people.

12 “But before all these things happen, people will arrest you and do bad things to you. They will judge you in their synagogues and put you in jail. You will be forced to stand before kings and governors. They will do all these things to you because you follow me. 13 But this will give you an opportunity to tell about me. 14 Decide now not to worry about what you will say. 15 I will give you the wisdom to say things that none of your enemies can answer. 16 Even your parents, brothers, relatives, and friends will turn against you. They will have some of you killed. 17 Everyone will hate you because you follow me. 18 But none of these things can really harm you. 19 You will save yourselves by continuing strong in your faith through all these things.

The Destruction of Jerusalem
20 “You will see armies all around Jerusalem. Then you will know that the time for its destruction has come. 21 The people in Judea at that time should run away to the mountains. The people in Jerusalem must leave quickly. If you are near the city, don’t go in! 22 The prophets wrote many things about the time when God will punish his people. The time I am talking about is when all these things must happen. 23 During that time it will be hard for women who are pregnant or have small babies, because very bad times will come to this land. God will be angry with these people. 24 Some of the people will be killed by soldiers. Others will be made prisoners and taken to all the different countries. The holy city of Jerusalem will be under the control of foreigners until their time is completed.

Don’t Fear
25 “Amazing things will happen to the sun, moon, and stars. And people all over the earth will be upset and confused by the noise of the sea and its crashing waves. 26 They will be afraid and worried about what will happen to the world. Everything in the sky will be changed. 27 Then people will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to happen, stand up tall and don’t be afraid. Know that it is almost time for God to free you!”

My Words Will Live Forever
29 Then Jesus told this story: “Look at all the trees. The fig tree is a good example. 30 When it turns green, you know that summer is very near. 31 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that God’s kingdom is very near.

32 “I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 33 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

Be Ready All the Time
34 “Be careful not to spend your time having parties and getting drunk or worrying about this life. If you do that, you won’t be able to think straight, and the end might come when you are not ready. 35 It will come as a surprise to everyone on earth. 36 So be ready all the time. Pray that you will be able to get through all these things that will happen and stand safe before the Son of Man.”

37 During the day Jesus taught the people in the Temple area. At night he went out of the city and stayed all night on the Mount of Olives. 38 Every morning all the people got up early to go listen to Jesus at the Temple.

Footnotes
Luke 21:8 the Messiah Literally “the one,” meaning the chosen one sent by God. See “Messiah” in the Word List and Mt. 24:5.

 

[TheLearner]

Matthew 24

Easy-to-Read Version



Jesus Warns About the Future
24 Jesus left the Temple area and was walking away. But his followers came to him to show him the Temple’s buildings. 2 He asked them, “Are you looking at these buildings? The fact is, they will be destroyed. Every stone will be thrown down to the ground. Not one stone will be left on another.”
3 Later, Jesus was sitting at a place on the Mount of Olives. The followers came to be alone with him. They said, “Tell us when these things will happen. And what will happen to prepare us for your coming and the end of time?”
4 Jesus answered, “Be careful! Don’t let anyone fool you. 5 Many people will come and use my name. They will say, ‘I am the Messiah.’ And they will fool many people. 6 You will hear about wars that are being fought. And you will hear stories about other wars beginning. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes. 7 Nations will fight against other nations. Kingdoms will fight against other kingdoms. There will be times when there is no food for people to eat. And there will be earthquakes in different places. 8 These things are only the beginning of troubles, like the first pains of a woman giving birth.
9 “Then you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and killed. People all over the world will hate you because you believe in me. 10 During that time many believers will lose their faith. They will turn against each other and hate each other. 11 Many false prophets will come and cause many people to believe things that are wrong. 12 There will be so much more evil in the world that the love of most believers will grow cold. 13 But the one who remains faithful to the end will be saved. 14 And the Good News I have shared about God’s kingdom will be told throughout the world. It will be spread to every nation. Then the end will come.
15 “Daniel the prophet spoke about ‘the terrible thing that causes destruction.’[a] You will see this terrible thing standing in the holy place.” (You who read this should understand what it means.) 16 “The people in Judea at that time should run away to the mountains. 17 They should run away without wasting time to stop for anything. If they are on the roof of their house, they must not go down to get anything out of the house. 18 If they are in the field, they must not go back to get a coat.
19 “During that time it will be hard for women who are pregnant or have small babies! 20 Pray that it will not be winter or a Sabbath day when these things happen and you have to run away, 21 because it will be a time of great trouble. There will be more trouble than has ever happened since the beginning of the world. And nothing as bad as that will ever happen again.
22 “But God has decided to make that terrible time short. If it were not made short, no one would continue living. But God will make that time short to help the people he has chosen.
23 “Someone might say to you at that time, ‘Look, there is the Messiah!’ Or someone else might say, ‘There he is!’ But don’t believe them. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will come and do great miracles and wonders,[b] trying to fool the people God has chosen, if that is possible. 25 Now I have warned you about this before it happens.
26 “Someone might tell you, ‘The Messiah is there in the desert!’ But don’t go into the desert to look for him. Someone else might say, ‘There is the Messiah in that room!’ But don’t believe it. 27 When the Son of Man comes, everyone will see him. It will be like lightning flashing in the sky that can be seen everywhere. 28 It’s like looking for a dead body: You will find it where the vultures are gathering above.
29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:
‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’[c]
30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.
32 “The fig tree teaches us a lesson: When its branches become green and soft, and new leaves begin to grow, then you know that summer is very near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that the time[d] is very near, already present. 34 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 35 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.
Only God Knows When the Time Will Be
36 “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows.
37 “When the Son of Man comes, it will be the same as what happened during Noah’s time. 38 In those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving their children to be married right up to the day Noah entered the boat. 39 They knew nothing about what was happening until the flood came and destroyed them all.
“It will be the same when the Son of Man comes. 40 Two men will be working together in the field. One will be taken and the other will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding grain with a mill. One will be taken and the other will be left.
42 “So always be ready. You don’t know the day your Lord will come. 43 What would a homeowner do if he knew when a thief was coming? You know he would be ready and not let the thief break in. 44 So you also must be ready. The Son of Man will come at a time when you don’t expect him.
Good Servants and Bad Servants
45 “Who is the wise and trusted servant? The master trusts one servant to give the other servants their food at the right time. Who is the one the master trusts to do that work? 46 When the master comes and finds that servant doing the work he gave him, it will be a day of blessing for that servant. 47 I can tell you without a doubt, the master will choose that servant to take care of everything he owns.
48 “But what will happen if that servant is evil and thinks his master will not come back soon? 49 He will begin to beat the other servants. He will eat and drink with others who are drunk. 50 Then the master will come when the servant is not ready, at a time when the servant is not expecting him. 51 Then the master will punish that servant. He will send him away to be with the hypocrites, where people will cry and grind their teeth with pain.
Footnotes

1. Matthew 24:15 ‘the terrible thing … destruction’ See Dan. 9:27; 11:31; 12:11.
2. Matthew 24:24 miracles and wonders Here, amazing acts done by Satan’s power.
3. Matthew 24:29 See Isa. 13:10; 34:4.
4. Matthew 24:33 time The time Jesus has been talking about when something important will happen. See Lk. 21:31, where Jesus says that this is the time for God’s kingdom to come.

 

[TheLearner]

Sound interpretation is NOT "adding" to but explaining Scripture. That is called Bible exposition.

There can be absolutely no other interpretation. It corresponds to this verse: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2 Pet 3:13)

God has promised everlasting righteousness on earth through Christ. And that is exactly what Peter is anticipating. And that is also why this earth and its atmosphere will be totally and supernaturally burned up. So that all the filth, corruption, pollution, and wickedness is cleansed. Then only will there be everlasting righteousness on this entire globe.

https://www.apologeticsindex.org/5846-biblical-interpretation-rules
https://plainbibleteaching.com/2021/06/16/i-b-grubbs-six-rules-of-biblical-hermeneutics/
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-6-principles-biblical-interpretation
https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-hermeneutics.html

 

[TheLearner]

--Acts 17:31 (not merely "a singular 24-hr day") - "because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through/IN a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

--Hebrews 1:8b "...and the scepter [/rod - G4464] of righteousness is the scepter [/rod - G4464] of thy kingdom" (same word used in Rev19:15b [scepter / rod - G4464] speaking of what is even "future" to that point)




Sure... that's a reign of righteousness alright! = )

Hebrews 1
Easy-to-Read Version
God Has Spoken Through His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side[a] of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.

5 God never said this to any of the angels:

“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”

God also never said about an angel,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my son.”

6 And then, when God presents his firstborn Son to the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]

7 This is what God said about the angels:

“He changes his angels into winds[d]
and his servants into flaming fire.”

8 But this is what he said about his Son:

“God, your kingdom will last forever and ever.
You use your authority for justice.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, has chosen you,
giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.”

10 God also said,

“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.
11 These things will disappear, but you will stay.
They will all wear out like old clothes.
12 You will fold them up like a coat,
and they will be changed like clothes.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”

13 And God never said this to an angel:

“Sit at my right side
until I put your enemies under your power.[e]”

14 All the angels are spirits who serve God and are sent to help those who will receive salvation.

Footnotes
Hebrews 1:3 right side The place of honor and authority (power).
Hebrews 1:6 world This may mean the world into which Jesus was born (see Lk. 2:1-14), or it may have the same meaning as in Heb. 2:5—the world to come, to which the risen Christ is presented as king (see Php. 2:9-11).
Hebrews 1:6 “Let … him” These words are found in Deut. 32:43 in the ancient Greek version and in a Hebrew scroll from Qumran.
Hebrews 1:7 winds This can also mean “spirits.”
Hebrews 1:13 until I put … power Literally, “until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

 

[TheLearner]

Romans 11

Easy-to-Read Version



God Has Not Forgotten His People
11 So I ask, “Did God force his people to leave him?” Of course not. I myself am an Israelite. I am from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born. And he did not force them to leave. Surely you know what the Scriptures say about Elijah. The Scriptures tell about Elijah praying to God against the people of Israel. He said, 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet still living, and they are trying to kill me now.”[a] 4 But what answer did God give to Elijah? God said, “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have never given worship to Baal.”[b]
5 It is the same now. God has chosen a few people by his grace. 6 And if he chose them by grace, then it is not what they have done that made them his people. If they could be made his people by what they did, his gift of grace would not really be a gift.
7 So this is what has happened: The people of Israel wanted God’s blessing, but they did not all get it. The people he chose did get his blessing, but the others became hard and refused to listen to him. 8 As the Scriptures say,
“God caused the people to fall asleep.”
“God closed their eyes so that they could not see,
and he closed their ears so that they could not hear.
This continues until now.”
9 And David says,
“Let those people be caught and trapped at their own feasts.
Let them fall and be punished.
10 Let their eyes be closed so that they cannot see.
And let them be troubled forever.”
11 So I ask: When the Jews fell, did that fall destroy them? No! But their mistake brought salvation to those who are not Jews. The purpose of this was to make the Jews jealous. 12 Their mistake brought rich blessings to the world. And what they lost brought rich blessings to the non-Jewish people. So surely the world will get much richer blessings when enough Jews become the kind of people God wants.
13 Now I am speaking to you people who are not Jews. I am an apostle to the non-Jewish people. So while I have that work, I will do the best I can. 14 I hope I can make my own people jealous. That way, maybe I can help some of them to be saved. 15 God turned away from the Jews. When that happened, he became friends with the other people in the world. So when he accepts the Jews, it will be like bringing people to life after death. 16 If the first piece of bread is offered to God, then the whole loaf is made holy. If the roots of a tree are holy, the tree’s branches are holy too.
17 It is as if some of the branches from an olive tree have been broken off, and the branch of a wild olive tree has been joined to that first tree. If you are not a Jew, you are the same as that wild branch, and you now share the strength and life of the first tree. 18 But don’t act as if you are better than those branches that were broken off. You have no reason to be proud of yourself, because you don’t give life to the root. The root gives life to you. 19 You might say, “Branches were broken off so that I could be joined to their tree.” 20 That is true. But those branches were broken off because they did not believe. And you continue to be part of the tree only because you believe. Don’t be proud, but be afraid. 21 If God did not let the natural branches of that tree stay, he will not let you stay if you stop believing.
22 So you see that God is kind, but he can also be very strict. He punishes those who stop following him. But he is kind to you, if you continue trusting in his kindness. If you don’t continue depending on him, you will be cut off from the tree. 23 And if the Jews will believe in God again, he will accept them back. He is able to put them back where they were. 24 It is not natural for a wild branch to become part of a good tree. But you non-Jewish people are like a branch cut from a wild olive tree. And you were joined to a good olive tree. But those Jews are like a branch that grew from the good tree. So surely they can be joined to their own tree again.
25 I want you to understand this secret truth, brothers and sisters. This truth will help you understand that you don’t know everything. The truth is this: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when enough non-Jewish people have come to God. 26 And that is how all Israel will be saved. The Scriptures say,
“The Savior will come from Zion;
he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
27 And I will make this agreement with those people
when I take away their sins.”
28 The Jews refuse to accept the Good News, so they are God’s enemies. This has happened to help you who are not Jews. But they are still God’s chosen people, and he loves them because of the promises he made to their ancestors. 29 God never changes his mind about the people he calls. He never decides to take back the blessings he has given them. 30 At one time you refused to obey God. But now you have received mercy, because the Jews refused to obey. 31 And now they are the ones who refuse to obey, because God showed mercy to you. But this happened so that they can also receive mercy from him. 32 All people have refused to obey God. And he has put them all together as people who don’t obey him so that he can show mercy to everyone.
Praise to God
33 Yes, God’s riches are very great! His wisdom and knowledge have no end! No one can explain what God decides. No one can understand his ways. 34 As the Scriptures say,
“Who can know what is on the Lord’s mind?
Who is able to give him advice?”
35 “Who has ever given God anything?
God owes nothing to anyone.”
36 Yes, God made all things. And everything continues through him and for him. To God be the glory forever! Amen.

 

[TheLearner]

Romans 11

King James Version



11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[Mindwrencher]

It takes scripture from various places to establish that the reign is on the Earth.

Revelation 19 shows him coming to the Earth to battle Earthly forces. Revelation 21 shows Christ and the Father upon the Earth. It is ridiculous and unscriptural to take the stance that Christ never sets foot upon the Earth which he promised as part of his second coming. First coming was upon the Earth and so is the second coming.

Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The Kingdom is coming here to be established on Earth and wine comes from the Earth.

Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

The Kingdom is Earthly.


Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

The redeemer is Christ and he shall stand upon the Earth in the latter day.

Rev_14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Mount Sion is an Earthly mountain. It is located just outside of Jerusalem.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Christ was on the Earth when he ascended into heaven so this verse promises he will return the same way which means he will step upon the Earth again.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Since the reign is on the earth then we know this same reign is on the earth:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Thank you for proving my point. It’s not in Rev 20. I’ll just let it go at that. I disagree with you on the whole concept of “the latter day”. My point about Rev 20 is correct.
But…during Christ’s “earthly reign”, is that where “everlasting righteousness” exists as in Dan 9:24?

 

[Mindwrencher]

It doesn't CLEAR UP anything, because the Gospel never changes, I understand that there were four different interpretations because Jesus said if I testify of myself my testimony is not true, thus we get four different human interpretations, and human testimony at trials is always seen as being worse than having great forensics because humans see the same events differently or remember things years later differently, that why we get out versions of the Gospel as a genuine testimony by men.

I understand Matt. 24 perfectly, verses 4-6 are about 70 AD, verses 7-14 are about the Church Age, and verses 15-31 are about the 70t week.

Jesus tells us that IF we listen, he says in verse 6 THE END IS NOT YET (meaning the 70th week, thus he's saying 70 AD is not THE END my disciples, do not rush back here expecting me). Then later on Jesus u=nforms that what ushers in THE END (70th week) where there is no way they can ever be deceived. He says in verse 14 that the Gospel must be preached unto ALL the world, then and only then will the END come (70th week). Thus the Disciples who were preaching the Gospel and building the Church's foundations, knew that until China and Inda had received the Gospel, Jesus was not coming back, thus they knew 70 AD was not the Second Coming.

So, I perfectly well understand what Matt. 24 is saying.

Really? You understand Mt 24 so very well? Well, who is Jesus’ audience on that occassion? You? Someone thousands of years later? You have to rip Mt 24 apart to get Jesus speaking to them and not to them but others, then back to them and then again about some future day not involving them at all. Yeah, you have great discernment.

 

[Jackson123]

Daniel 9:24 will show that that is impossible. Here is what is stated in the King James Bible:

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
(D)Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame (E)andeverlasting [a]contempt.

Yep it seem this verse not happen yet some of resurrection happen when Jesus on the cross but after that more people die and some save some not it need more redirection and not happen till end of the world

Before end time there will be more people die

 

[Rondonmon]

Really? You understand Mt 24 so very well? Well, who is Jesus’ audience on that occassion? You? Someone thousands of years later? You have to rip Mt 24 apart to get Jesus speaking to them and not to them but others, then back to them and then again about some future day not involving them at all. Yeah, you have great discernment.

So, very, very, very well, I do, I do, I do, I do.............

Well, that is pretty easy, in Matthew chapters 21-23 Jesus was supposedly speaking in the temple unto the Pharisees, Herodians, and Sadducees. So, even though this was years later Matthew was trying to lay out a culmination of events as pictured in his mind, via all of the events as he remembered them.

So, in Matt. 24 he's left the temple and starts speaking unto his Disciples. Verses 4-14 are ALL about him warning the Disciples what to LOOK for in the coming years, where they can go through these "minefields" so to speak, and survive long enough to get the Church off the ground.

Thus when Jesus tells them about the temple soon to come destruction, the Disciples enquire about that vas saying 1.) "When shall these things be?" AND 2.) what is the SIGN of your coming AND 3.) the End of the Age. So, Jesus is talking unto his Disciples, but of course, the 70th-week end-time tribulation will be 2000 years away, no matter what people on here or elsewhere think, that matters not to me.

So, in verses 4-6 Jesus answers the Disciples about their FIRST QUESTION, when will these things be? (the Temples Destruction) Thus Jesus warns THEM to beware of fake christs, he knew the Pharisees would put forth messianic figures to try and save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, he told the Pharisees as much in John 5:43 which IS NOT about the end time Jews accepting the coming Anti-Christ. Then he gives the Disciples a HUGE CLUE, he says THE END(the 70th week is THE END) is not yet, it is by and by or later on. So, verses 4-6 are specifically about 70 AD.

Then Jesus goes into WHEN THE END (70th week) will come to pass, thus he starts with the Church Age Birth Pangs that BIRTHS the 70th week ends and doesn't;t stop until he tells them WHAT brings the 70th-week end where they can never, ever be deceived. He starts off with Wars and Rumours of Wars via the 70 AD events in verses 4-6 then goes into more Wars, Pestilence, Earthquakes and Famine, giving an overview of 2000 some odd yeas of sorrows. Then he tells the Disciples that they will DIE (He is getting them ready to face the sad facts of life). He speaks about false prophets (Preachers/teachers in verse 11) then says you must ENDURE until the end (but he's talking about the end of their lives, they can't allow the threat of death to make them deny Jesus Christ). Then in verse 14 Jesus says this, THE END will only come when the Gospel has been preached unto ALL THE WORLD, thus these Disciples could not make any mistakes because they knew that China and India were a part of the world, thus they knew THE END would not come until those nations had heard the Gospel, thus they understood that the 70 AD event was not THE END and thus WAS NOT Jesus returning. Thus they stayed away when they heard the wars and rumours of wars, thus they stayed alive and kept building the Church.

So, in verses 4-14 Jesus is SPECIFICALLY speaking unto his Disciples, but in verses 15-31 Jesus is talking about the 70th-week GENERATION, not about the Discopes generation. This is why THREE SETS of fake christs.... false christs.... AND The Anti-Christ and False Prophets are spoken about. 1.) The 70 AD messianic figures were put forth by the Pharisees to try and force a Political Savior onto the scene. 2.) The Church Age false preachers and teachers which the Disciples were going to have to overcome vo their false doctrine. 3.) THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet of verse 24 via the 70th-week end-times. Thus in these verses (Matt. 24:15-31), Jesus is speaking in general to all end-time Jews hoping they will thus understand, repent, and Flee unto Judea when they see the End Time AoD.

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you for proving my point. It’s not in Rev 20.

It's partially in Rev 20, but it doesn't matter where it's at in the bible. The Millenial kingdom is on Earth.

 

[rayzor]

[Rev] 20 cause the thousand reign of Jesus happens at the same time Satan is locked up

 

[Mindwrencher]

So, very, very, very well, I do, I do, I do, I do.............

Well, that is pretty easy, in Matthew chapters 21-23 Jesus was supposedly speaking in the temple unto the Pharisees, Herodians, and Sadducees. So, even though this was years later Matthew was trying to lay out a culmination of events as pictured in his mind, via all of the events as he remembered them.

So, in Matt. 24 he's left the temple and starts speaking unto his Disciples. Verses 4-14 are ALL about him warning the Disciples what to LOOK for in the coming years, where they can go through these "minefields" so to speak, and survive long enough to get the Church off the ground.

Thus when Jesus tells them about the temple soon to come destruction, the Disciples enquire about that vas saying 1.) "When shall these things be?" AND 2.) what is the SIGN of your coming AND 3.) the End of the Age. So, Jesus is talking unto his Disciples, but of course, the 70th-week end-time tribulation will be 2000 years away, no matter what people on here or elsewhere think, that matters not to me.

So, in verses 4-6 Jesus answers the Disciples about their FIRST QUESTION, when will these things be? (the Temples Destruction) Thus Jesus warns THEM to beware of fake christs, he knew the Pharisees would put forth messianic figures to try and save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, he told the Pharisees as much in John 5:43 which IS NOT about the end time Jews accepting the coming Anti-Christ. Then he gives the Disciples a HUGE CLUE, he says THE END(the 70th week is THE END) is not yet, it is by and by or later on. So, verses 4-6 are specifically about 70 AD.

Then Jesus goes into WHEN THE END (70th week) will come to pass, thus he starts with the Church Age Birth Pangs that BIRTHS the 70th week ends and doesn't;t stop until he tells them WHAT brings the 70th-week end where they can never, ever be deceived. He starts off with Wars and Rumours of Wars via the 70 AD events in verses 4-6 then goes into more Wars, Pestilence, Earthquakes and Famine, giving an overview of 2000 some odd yeas of sorrows. Then he tells the Disciples that they will DIE (He is getting them ready to face the sad facts of life). He speaks about false prophets (Preachers/teachers in verse 11) then says you must ENDURE until the end (but he's talking about the end of their lives, they can't allow the threat of death to make them deny Jesus Christ). Then in verse 14 Jesus says this, THE END will only come when the Gospel has been preached unto ALL THE WORLD, thus these Disciples could not make any mistakes because they knew that China and India were a part of the world, thus they knew THE END would not come until those nations had heard the Gospel, thus they understood that the 70 AD event was not THE END and thus WAS NOT Jesus returning. Thus they stayed away when they heard the wars and rumours of wars, thus they stayed alive and kept building the Church.

So, in verses 4-14 Jesus is SPECIFICALLY speaking unto his Disciples, but in verses 15-31 Jesus is talking about the 70th-week GENERATION, not about the Discopes generation. This is why THREE SETS of fake christs.... false christs.... AND The Anti-Christ and False Prophets are spoken about. 1.) The 70 AD messianic figures were put forth by the Pharisees to try and force a Political Savior onto the scene. 2.) The Church Age false preachers and teachers which the Disciples were going to have to overcome vo their false doctrine. 3.) THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet of verse 24 via the 70th-week end-times. Thus in these verses (Matt. 24:15-31), Jesus is speaking in general to all end-time Jews hoping they will thus understand, repent, and Flee unto Judea when they see the End Time AoD.

15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation…”
The apostles and disciples were the audience in verse 15. They would see the abomination of desolation. Not thousands of years later.
This is what I mean about ripping Mt 24 apart to get your doctrine.
You selectively disregard “you” to fit your doctrine.
So I disagree with you. But you go ahead and believe what you wish.

 

[ewq1938]

15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation…”
The apostles and disciples were the audience in verse 15. They would see the abomination of desolation. Not thousands of years later.

There's a huge problem there.

All who promote that "this generation" was in the first century always avoid the fact that the generation to see all those events would also see the actual second coming and gathering of the saints.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation will the sun and moon go dark and the stars will fall from heaven, all being global events. Did that happen after the Roman's destroyed the city and temple? No.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

All the tribes of the Earth mourning and seeing Christ coming from heaven to the Earth. Again, a global event. Did that happen in Ad70? No.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The gathering of the elect by angels in Ad70? No. The disciples would have been the elect of their generation and they certainly weren't gathered by angels. This is the same event known as the Rapture but it didn't happen in Ad70 and hasn't happened yet.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


"all these things" includes verses 29-31 which shows the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Other scriptures tell us this timeframe is also the time when the dead in Christ are resurrected. Did any of those things take place in Ad70? No.

None of those things happened in the lives of the disciples proving he was NOT talking about their generation not passing before "all these things" occurred.

 

[Mindwrencher]

There's a huge problem there.

All who promote that "this generation" was in the first century always avoid the fact that the generation to see all those events would also see the actual second coming and gathering of the saints.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation will the sun and moon go dark and the stars will fall from heaven, all being global events. Did that happen after the Roman's destroyed the city and temple? No.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

All the tribes of the Earth mourning and seeing Christ coming from heaven to the Earth. Again, a global event. Did that happen in Ad70? No.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The gathering of the elect by angels in Ad70? No. The disciples would have been the elect of their generation and they certainly weren't gathered by angels. This is the same event known as the Rapture but it didn't happen in Ad70 and hasn't happened yet.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


"all these things" includes verses 29-31 which shows the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Other scriptures tell us this timeframe is also the time when the dead in Christ are resurrected. Did any of those things take place in Ad70? No.

None of those things happened in the lives of the disciples proving he was NOT talking about their generation not passing before "all these things" occurred.

“When ye….therefore….shall see…”
They would see that abomination. Not someone thousands of years later.
The verses after that keep saying “you”.
Jesus is talking to them, not someone thousands of years after them.

 

[ewq1938]

“When ye….therefore….shall see…”
They would see that abomination. Not someone thousands of years later.
The verses after that keep saying “you”.
Jesus is talking to them, not someone thousands of years after them.

Wrong.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

That generation did not see "all these things" proving the "you" he uses is other people in future that he knew would read and believe his teachings and who WOULD see all the things Christ spoke about which includes second coming and angels gathering the saints. Did that happen in AD70?

 

[Mindwrencher]

There's a huge problem there.

All who promote that "this generation" was in the first century always avoid the fact that the generation to see all those events would also see the actual second coming and gathering of the saints.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Immediately after the tribulation will the sun and moon go dark and the stars will fall from heaven, all being global events. Did that happen after the Roman's destroyed the city and temple? No.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

All the tribes of the Earth mourning and seeing Christ coming from heaven to the Earth. Again, a global event. Did that happen in Ad70? No.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The gathering of the elect by angels in Ad70? No. The disciples would have been the elect of their generation and they certainly weren't gathered by angels. This is the same event known as the Rapture but it didn't happen in Ad70 and hasn't happened yet.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


"all these things" includes verses 29-31 which shows the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Other scriptures tell us this timeframe is also the time when the dead in Christ are resurrected. Did any of those things take place in Ad70? No.

None of those things happened in the lives of the disciples proving he was NOT talking about their generation not passing before "all these things" occurred.

In Mk 13 we find a break in Jesus warnings to His apostles in verse 24. That break meshes with Mt 24:39. Before Mk 13:24, it is obvious that Jesus is speaking to His first century followers.
Jesus in Mk 13:24 and in Mt 24:39 speaks of His return in His second appearing.
The break is obviously concerning something beyond the first century. But as I said, Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 is this same occassion and reading them together lends insight to Mt 24.
Jesus on this occassion speaks concerning ONLY two things: 1) When would the temple be razed? and 2) What will be the sign of Your (Messiah’s) reappearing?
It is these two questions that Mt, Mk and Lk all together write about. You have to read all three to get a wider picture about hoe Jesus answers those two questions.