Saved by Water
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Establishing what is true in God's word requires 2-3 scriptures the state the same thing. Obedience to water baptism for the remission of sin meets that criteria.
I believe what God says about water baptism as expressed in His word. And that belief along with obedience to the command brings about the reality stated; sins are remitted. My job was to believe and allow someone to immerse me in water as God said. God did the rest.
I have family members that are prison guards. They attest that inmates are afforded access to religious leaders for things such as baptisms. A State cannot legally restrain them. Keep in mind that nothing is impossible with God.
I believe what God says about water baptism as expressed in His word. And that belief along with obedience to the command brings about the reality stated; sins are remitted. My job was to believe and allow someone to immerse me in water as God said. God did the rest.
I have family members that are prison guards. They attest that inmates are afforded access to religious leaders for things such as baptisms. A State cannot legally restrain them. Keep in mind that nothing is impossible with God.
Did I say that? No, I didn't. I pointed out the parallelism between what we read in Acts 15 and what you preach.
The believers of the Pharisee party insisted that one had to undergo circumcision (a ritual) in order to be saved.
You claim that one has to be water baptized in order to be saved.
Same principle in play. One MUST undergo a ritual in order to be saved.
Allow me to refresh your memory about the text:
Acts 15:1 - Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
Maybe the color red is easier to read.
You're doing what they did, only using a different ritual.
Your view is:
Unless you are water baptized, according to the custom taught by wansvic, or whoever taught him, you cannot be saved.
The only difference is the names and ritual.
The believers of the Pharisee party insisted that one had to undergo circumcision (a ritual) in order to be saved.
You claim that one has to be water baptized in order to be saved.
Same principle in play. One MUST undergo a ritual in order to be saved.
Allow me to refresh your memory about the text:
Acts 15:1 - Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
Maybe the color red is easier to read.
You're doing what they did, only using a different ritual.
Your view is:
Unless you are water baptized, according to the custom taught by wansvic, or whoever taught him, you cannot be saved.
The only difference is the names and ritual.
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If you can't quote any verse that makes this point, you only have an opinion.
And there are way more verses that leave out water baptism when dealing with what results in salvation than mention baptism.
But even so, you still miss the point. Salvation involves faith in Christ and being Spirit baptized. But you just refuse to accept the Word on that.
This doesn't show that water baptism is required for salvation.
And there are way more verses that leave out water baptism when dealing with what results in salvation than mention baptism.
But even so, you still miss the point. Salvation involves faith in Christ and being Spirit baptized. But you just refuse to accept the Word on that.
This doesn't show that water baptism is required for salvation.
You state we are buried with Jesus through baptism. Notice what Paul said beginning in the next verse: IF a person has been planted in the likeness of Jesus death, they will be also in the likeness of his resurrection. Paul's statement makes the point that water baptism is not optional. Being in the likeness of Jesus resurrection depends on obedience to the command to be baptized.
5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
I do believe the Bible as it is written. And I remember exactly what I've shared. Your accusations are unfounded.
The bible states we are to believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, repent, be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost. Scripture shows that those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. I accept these as conditions associated with the NT rebirth. And they align with what Jesus said about being born again. Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
The bible states we are to believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, repent, be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost. Scripture shows that those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. I accept these as conditions associated with the NT rebirth. And they align with what Jesus said about being born again. Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
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S
we both know that is not true
but sadly, you do not seem able to let go of your Oneness doctrine and you keep insisting that unless you are water baptized you are not saved
according to you...NOT THE BIBLE...but according to you, we have to be immersed in water for salvation and even that has a formula. you believe that if a person was water baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, that person must be re-baptized using the name of Jesus ONLY
why is that? that is because, according to your doctrine, Jesus is actually the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit..which is why your group is called Oneness
water does not wash away sin....ONLY the blood of Christ washes away sin
you preach a different Jesus and a different gospel
your beliefs are not biblical
and you would be the first to declare that Jesus was still under law here, so no application. however, because you think you can twist it to suit your narrative, you use it
your beliefs are not biblical
but sadly, you do not seem able to let go of your Oneness doctrine and you keep insisting that unless you are water baptized you are not saved
according to you...NOT THE BIBLE...but according to you, we have to be immersed in water for salvation and even that has a formula. you believe that if a person was water baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, that person must be re-baptized using the name of Jesus ONLY
why is that? that is because, according to your doctrine, Jesus is actually the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit..which is why your group is called Oneness
water does not wash away sin....ONLY the blood of Christ washes away sin
you preach a different Jesus and a different gospel
your beliefs are not biblical
and you would be the first to declare that Jesus was still under law here, so no application. however, because you think you can twist it to suit your narrative, you use it
your beliefs are not biblical
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FreeGrace2 said:
Unless you are water baptized, according to the custom taught by wansvic, or whoever taught him, you cannot be saved.
The only difference is the names and ritual.
Nope. You do not understand the difference between real and ritual. Therefore, you CANNOT understand any teaching on "baptism". You only have eyes for water.
Unless you are water baptized, according to the custom taught by wansvic, or whoever taught him, you cannot be saved.
The only difference is the names and ritual.
Nope. You do not understand the difference between real and ritual. Therefore, you CANNOT understand any teaching on "baptism". You only have eyes for water.
you need to quote the word of God correctly.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Receive the Gift
this can all be very easily understood if you agree with those who have already been baptized in the name of the Father-Son, and Holy Spirit is valid. Do you agree that those baptized in this manner, their baptism is vailed and they are saved?
Yes or no?
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FreeGrace2 said:
If you can't quote any verse that makes this point, you only have an opinion.
And there are way more verses that leave out water baptism when dealing with what results in salvation than mention baptism.
But even so, you still miss the point. Salvation involves faith in Christ and being Spirit baptized. But you just refuse to accept the Word on that.
This doesn't show that water baptism is required for salvation.
The only point you've made, unintentionally, is that you do not or cannot differentiate between ritual and reality. Even though it's been explained to you over and over.
But when you can't or won't discern between reality and ritual, you can't understand the difference.
Water baptism IS necessary to show or demonstrate to others that you are being identified with Christ. But you've taken it way too far to claim that it is necessary for salvation.
In principle, you are teaching what the believers of the Pharisee party taught. Acts 15. They believed a ritual was necessary for salvation (15:1). You teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Both are wrong.
You have water in your eyes. Every time you come to the word "baptism" you only see water. You completely miss the real baptisms where water ISN'T around. Like the Red Sea, Noah's ark, baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If you can't quote any verse that makes this point, you only have an opinion.
And there are way more verses that leave out water baptism when dealing with what results in salvation than mention baptism.
But even so, you still miss the point. Salvation involves faith in Christ and being Spirit baptized. But you just refuse to accept the Word on that.
This doesn't show that water baptism is required for salvation.
The only point you've made, unintentionally, is that you do not or cannot differentiate between ritual and reality. Even though it's been explained to you over and over.
But when you can't or won't discern between reality and ritual, you can't understand the difference.
Water baptism IS necessary to show or demonstrate to others that you are being identified with Christ. But you've taken it way too far to claim that it is necessary for salvation.
In principle, you are teaching what the believers of the Pharisee party taught. Acts 15. They believed a ritual was necessary for salvation (15:1). You teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Both are wrong.
You have water in your eyes. Every time you come to the word "baptism" you only see water. You completely miss the real baptisms where water ISN'T around. Like the Red Sea, Noah's ark, baptism of the Holy Spirit.
it sad those who hold to baptism as the means for salvation when they will not see water washing as normal practice in Judaism.
Ceremonial washing was done before you went up to the temple. there were pools of water all over Jerusalem.
Why did John baptized outside of the city and not in one of these pools created for washing to go into the temple aera?
there were many reasons. Ceremonial washing is very important to the jews, but nowhere do we see it as means of salvation.
When John said to Jesus " I should not be baptizing you but I should receive your Baptism. Jesus said Suffer it to be so to fulfill all righteousness, Did Jesus need this water baptism for him to be saved? No.
The Baptism of Jesus, John said is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in chapter 1 of John.
in every baptism, does a person get baptized because the water saves them or they heard the Gospel message and accepted that message in faith than were baptized because of what they believed?
Roman chapter 10:9-10
If you confess with your mouth The Lord Jesu Christ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead You must be saved?
excuse me Paul said as he received this word from Jesus himself, you " Shall be saved".
nothing was mentioned about water baptism. In 1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 with the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Paul did not mention water baptism.
Water Baptism is important all should do so after they are saved to be obedient to the Lord. Yet tongues are not important for salvation.
this wrong mandate by some has caused some very bad foolishness.
Like:
trying to teach people to speak in tongues, is an error. telling them to repeat after me. Man ends up hurting the gift because they force others to accept it.
The Holy Spirit who is God knows the mind of God and is fully capable of empowering one to speak HE made the mouth.
Yet the Holy Spirit will never force one to speak in tongues, He is a perfect gentleman, and many I have seen touched by the Holy Spirit had a wonderful experience that was quiet, reserved, and powerful.
some receive in groups, others prefer to be alone, some are sitting, others stand.
we cheapen the Holy Spirit when man mandates foolish teaching that is not edifying and causes those who don't experience what you have the way you have to doubt their salvation they have.
That should concern you very much because Jesus said those who do this will be dealt with very seriously.
Ceremonial washing was done before you went up to the temple. there were pools of water all over Jerusalem.
Why did John baptized outside of the city and not in one of these pools created for washing to go into the temple aera?
there were many reasons. Ceremonial washing is very important to the jews, but nowhere do we see it as means of salvation.
When John said to Jesus " I should not be baptizing you but I should receive your Baptism. Jesus said Suffer it to be so to fulfill all righteousness, Did Jesus need this water baptism for him to be saved? No.
The Baptism of Jesus, John said is the baptism of the Holy Spirit in chapter 1 of John.
in every baptism, does a person get baptized because the water saves them or they heard the Gospel message and accepted that message in faith than were baptized because of what they believed?
Roman chapter 10:9-10
If you confess with your mouth The Lord Jesu Christ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead You must be saved?
excuse me Paul said as he received this word from Jesus himself, you " Shall be saved".
nothing was mentioned about water baptism. In 1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 with the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Paul did not mention water baptism.
Water Baptism is important all should do so after they are saved to be obedient to the Lord. Yet tongues are not important for salvation.
this wrong mandate by some has caused some very bad foolishness.
Like:
trying to teach people to speak in tongues, is an error. telling them to repeat after me. Man ends up hurting the gift because they force others to accept it.
The Holy Spirit who is God knows the mind of God and is fully capable of empowering one to speak HE made the mouth.
Yet the Holy Spirit will never force one to speak in tongues, He is a perfect gentleman, and many I have seen touched by the Holy Spirit had a wonderful experience that was quiet, reserved, and powerful.
some receive in groups, others prefer to be alone, some are sitting, others stand.
we cheapen the Holy Spirit when man mandates foolish teaching that is not edifying and causes those who don't experience what you have the way you have to doubt their salvation they have.
That should concern you very much because Jesus said those who do this will be dealt with very seriously.
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No. I do not. The apostles obeyed Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19 by water baptizing everyone in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because the Lord Jesus is who was crucified for every single individual.
If there is no significance in being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus why doesn't the biblical record have even one baptism where the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost used?
Do you actually believe the apostles would have disobeyed Jesus? They did not. They obeyed his command by baptizing everyone in his name.
Instead of verbally beating up people who are pointing out what scripture actually says maybe the wise thing to do would be to accept what is clearly there in the word. And be obedient. Consider Paul rebaptized those who had not been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
If there is no significance in being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus why doesn't the biblical record have even one baptism where the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost used?
Do you actually believe the apostles would have disobeyed Jesus? They did not. They obeyed his command by baptizing everyone in his name.
Instead of verbally beating up people who are pointing out what scripture actually says maybe the wise thing to do would be to accept what is clearly there in the word. And be obedient. Consider Paul rebaptized those who had not been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The NT water baptism has nothing to do with OT washings. Both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost were required of NT believers.
Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of Jesus and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10)
Philip water baptized the Samaritans in the name of the Lord Jesus and afterward Peter and John assisted them in receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8)
Paul water baptized the Ephesus disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus and laid hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19)
Ananias told Paul to be water baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord, and Paul also received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 9, 22:16)
Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of Jesus and they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10)
Philip water baptized the Samaritans in the name of the Lord Jesus and afterward Peter and John assisted them in receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8)
Paul water baptized the Ephesus disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus and laid hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19)
Ananias told Paul to be water baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord, and Paul also received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 9, 22:16)