The Damaging Effects of Purity Culture Talks Video
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T
tstumf
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My opinion is that the church as a whole has done a large disservice in this area. Kids are being left with Sunday School knowledge of God and faith life and are being dropped into a world at war and we expect them to put on the full armor of God and live an obedient Spirit filled young life when most don’t even understand the basic concepts. Focus on the family ministry had some statistic that said 2/3rds of children walk away from the faith by their 20s and they developed a video series and endorsed a few books to help . Will link it below. I did, I walked away from my faith in my teens and 20s effectively. I was convinced I was still living the Christian life, would have told you I was a Christian, as far as I knew I was. but it couldn’t have been further from the truth. I lost my virginity at 19. And there was a whole lot of pre- marital sex in my life. I was one in that statistic I know I didn’t fully understand the armor of God till about a year ago and I’m a 33 year old male. To my mind the church as a whole needs to do a better job getting the kids coming out of Sunday school age into a next level bible study or appropriate youth groups so these kids can be taught to walk strong and defend their faith in this fallen world. It would have helped me so much and saved so much heartache,frustration and condemnation as young adult. There needs to be more of a transition from Sunday school teaching to regular adult church life. Some are working on it. The church i attend is working on it and does better than most churches it’s size in the region from what I’ve seen. But the churches as a whole have shamed people that is undeniable in these instances. Their teaching is incomplete . They didn’t follow through with the teaching of redemption and salvation I’d assume to scare kids into submission which is not the way. They didn’t give these young women hope. Essentially the church put these women back under the law that Jesus allready fulfilled. It’s so sad. I hope the women who go through this seek church family that teaches the full gospel including being saved and not just shame and condemnation. I have a female cousin who is in her 40s. I know she took one of these purity pledges… though I didn’t know what they were back then as a kid and really I thought it odd back then. I think we asked what it was but no one in the family bothered to explain it . I hope she was taught the full gospel and not this simple condemnation . She just married a few years ago. There is no condemnation but salvation if you turn from your ways and repent to Christ.
https://www.focusonthefamily.ca/content/free-video-series-raising-your-kids-to-defend-their-faith
https://www.focusonthefamily.ca/content/free-video-series-raising-your-kids-to-defend-their-faith
I don't have a problem with the lollipop or tape analogy. But on the other hand, there needs to be teaching about being made a new creature in Christ Jesus. There is redemption.
The tape analogy makes sense, since there is some research indicating that women with multiple sex partners prior to marriage had a higher rate of 'marital disruption.' (Teachman, 1990, Journal of Marriage and Family.)
It is good to teach the need for modesty in dress with a mind not to tempt others. But boys need to be taught modesty, too. And those who choose to commit fornication in a situation where much flesh is displayed need to be taught that they are responsible for their actions. Men need to be taught self-control, and encouraged to be holy, to desire to please God and not sin against the Lord, to treat young women as sisters and older women as mothers.
A passage I have noticed on the topic of sin and fornication is that Esau is compared to a 'fornicator or profane person' in Hebrews 12. When he would have inherited the blessing, he found no place of repentance. In the account, Isaac couldn't change the situation and give the blessing away he'd already given to Jacob. Esau missed out on a big blessing.
I can't think of other passages where it says that God will punish/avenge against believers except in regard to fornication in I Thessalonians 4. It is written to believers and warns against fornication, warning that God will punish (or be an avenger of) all who defraud their brother in this way.
Here is an analogy I have heard. Is this too crude for church?
"From a worldly perspective, who would you say was lower class, a prostitute, male or female, who made $3000 per client, or a prostitute who made 25 cents?
The Bible uses the same word for regular sex outside of marriage that it uses for having sexual relations with a prostitute. If a prostitute who charges 25 cents is lower class in your mind than one who charges $3000, what about someone who does it for free?" Our society has a lot of free whores. It's all whoring. If it is outside of marriage, it is whoring around, whether money changes hands or not.
The tape analogy makes sense, since there is some research indicating that women with multiple sex partners prior to marriage had a higher rate of 'marital disruption.' (Teachman, 1990, Journal of Marriage and Family.)
It is good to teach the need for modesty in dress with a mind not to tempt others. But boys need to be taught modesty, too. And those who choose to commit fornication in a situation where much flesh is displayed need to be taught that they are responsible for their actions. Men need to be taught self-control, and encouraged to be holy, to desire to please God and not sin against the Lord, to treat young women as sisters and older women as mothers.
A passage I have noticed on the topic of sin and fornication is that Esau is compared to a 'fornicator or profane person' in Hebrews 12. When he would have inherited the blessing, he found no place of repentance. In the account, Isaac couldn't change the situation and give the blessing away he'd already given to Jacob. Esau missed out on a big blessing.
I can't think of other passages where it says that God will punish/avenge against believers except in regard to fornication in I Thessalonians 4. It is written to believers and warns against fornication, warning that God will punish (or be an avenger of) all who defraud their brother in this way.
Here is an analogy I have heard. Is this too crude for church?
"From a worldly perspective, who would you say was lower class, a prostitute, male or female, who made $3000 per client, or a prostitute who made 25 cents?
The Bible uses the same word for regular sex outside of marriage that it uses for having sexual relations with a prostitute. If a prostitute who charges 25 cents is lower class in your mind than one who charges $3000, what about someone who does it for free?" Our society has a lot of free whores. It's all whoring. If it is outside of marriage, it is whoring around, whether money changes hands or not.
T
TheIndianGirl
Guest
I think to elevate virgins to goddess level, etc., does more damage than good. Obviously it is good to remain virgins until marriage. However if she is not this should be dealt with as every other flaw in life than than a deal-breaker issue. However, nowadays being a non-virgin is not a big an issue as before so maybe this issue is no longer as weighty. The thing with elevating virgins to goddess level is that there evolves a sense of "forbidden fruit" phenomena. I don't think this is healthy for a variety of reasons.
Speaking as a man who, after reading the Bible and considering the issues of 'two shall be one flesh', the various laws of the Torah that seemed to be influenced by that line of thinking, and after waiting all those years myself, I very much wanted to marry a virgin. The other alternative I might have considered might have been a widow who had been a virgin at marriage and had remained faithful during marriage and chaste afterward. So having sex before marriage ___was___ a dealbreaker for me. I appreciate someone telling the young women this is important, empathizing with young men in the same place. I am also the father of a son and daughters, who have been taught to remain virgins before marriage.
Calling virgins 'goddesses' is an inaccurate exaggeration. The video deals with non-virgins being made to feel impure.
There were probably plenty of Christians from pagan backgrounds that Paul preach to that became Christians who had some sexually impure backgrounds. But Paul wrote about being a new creature in Christ Jesus. He also expected Christians to abstain from fornication.
As bad as Grecco-Roman culture was, there were apparently still virgins around for men who wanted to marry virgins to marry-- even among the pagans.
A main problem I see with the tape analogy and lollipop is it compares the woman to a object. Woman are not objects they are people. Another problem I see with the analogy is it implies loss of value based on having sex outside of marriage. This is teaching lies to women. A woman’s worth doesn’t come from abstinence until marriage and it isn’t lost by not staying abstinent. People both men and women have intrinsic worth being made by God , in his very image and being loved by God so much that Christ died for our sins. This intrinsic value is not something that can be taken away.
Jesus spent time with all kinds of people with all kinds of sin. Consider the woman who came to Jesus, who washed her feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. ( see Luke 7:36-50). Jesus didn’t shame her or look down on her. On the contrary he loved her and stood up for her when she was judged wrongly.
You could compare a man to tape or a lollipop also. Any of these analogies would compare a human being to something other than humans. The Bible compares people to sheep. Jesus said He is the Door.
There is a difference between saying that losing virginity through fornication diminishes someone's worth versus saying it diminishes their desirability as a marriage partner. There is plenty in the Old Testament that indicates that virgins are desirable marriage partners.
A priest in the Old Testament was only allowed to marry Israelite virgins or widows of other priests. He was not allowed to marry a defiled woman. What does that imply about a woman who has committed fornication? In the Old Testament, a girl who lost her virginity and was married off as a virgin, if it were discovered and she were charged was to be executed. This is serious stuff.
Is hiding how serious sin is from young people helpful to them? Realizing how terrible sin is helps us be appreciative for forgiveness and redemption of sin.
It is also normal to view fornication as defiling and to view a potential partner who has engaged in it as a less desirable marriage partner.
There is also a great need to help young people understand that sexual immorality is a bad thing. Sleeping around should not be viewed as normative, and doing it and asking forgiveness later can have damaging consequences on their lives. Pointing out that sexual immorality is defiling is not wrong. Pointing out that it makes one a less-desirable marriage partner to a lot of God-fearing potential partners is not wrong, either. This is helpful, and it may help provide a population of virgin young men and women that other Christians can choose from for marriage partners.
It seems like they were right to think that she was sinful, but they did not appreciate the Lord's forgiven. Apparently, she had sinned much and had been forgiven much. He didn't tell the Pharisees or his disciples they had to marry the woman. We might guess her sins were sexual in nature. That seems likely, but it doesn't say that.
I saw a video against the purity movement that included clips from Joshua Harris, who wrote "I Kissed Dating Good-bye" and later said that he was not a Christian. The video showed clips of women talking about feeling guilty after doing something with their boyfriend, years after making their purity pledges.
There are some things about the purity movement I don't care for. I was a Christian teenager before the 'movement' started, I guess. But I was taught not to fornicate before marriage, and if I had done so, I probably would have felt some very appropriate shame for doing so. Paul wrote in Romans 6, "What fruit had we then in those things of which we are now ashamed." If you know better, and you do it, why wouldn't you feel ashamed.
I wonder if these women in these videos feel bad because they sinned.
Letting kids run wild in fornication culture without teaching them right and wrong is very damaging.
There are some things about the purity movement I don't care for. I was a Christian teenager before the 'movement' started, I guess. But I was taught not to fornicate before marriage, and if I had done so, I probably would have felt some very appropriate shame for doing so. Paul wrote in Romans 6, "What fruit had we then in those things of which we are now ashamed." If you know better, and you do it, why wouldn't you feel ashamed.
I wonder if these women in these videos feel bad because they sinned.
Letting kids run wild in fornication culture without teaching them right and wrong is very damaging.
@presidente , I personally don’t agree with the analogies used. Suppose a young woman does sin and have sex outside of marriage. If she heard the analogy of the lollipop or tape, she may begin to feel like that lollipop of tape and start to feel worthless. This might not be the intentions of those giving such pictures but I believe these pictures can be harmful to someone’s self-esteem. I am not saying the topic of fornication and it dangers should be hidden or not talked about.
I understand your concern. However, 'self-esteem' should not be on the top of the priority list when teaching the word of God. The issue is whether it communicates truth. The tape analogy doesn't have to be taught in a dehumanizing way that equates someone with a piece of tape. Those who teach the word should also properly teach the idea of being washed and a new creature in Christ Jesus. I Corinthians 6 talks about this...fornicators... but now ye are washed...sanctified...justified.
But chapter 7 goes into a discussion of marrying a virgin.
Statistically speaking, multiple marriages or sex partners may make people less 'adhesive' in later marriages.... especially marriages. I don't know if there is statistical difference between higher divorce rates versus two or 100 partners before marriage. It seems like I might have seen some non-peer-reviewed evidence of a direct relationship. But there was research that showed higher 'marital disruption' in cases where a married woman had had sex with someone besides her husband before marriage. Sex with a future husband before marriage isn't a good thing, but it may have less devastating effects than becoming 'one flesh' with more than one other person.
I'm just curious, has anyone really watched and listened to this video. Have you heard what is actually being said?
Hint: It's not about roses or lollypops or tape, it's about the "abusive" nature of encouraging chastity and modesty, so just shut-up about it already!
Hint: It's not about roses or lollypops or tape, it's about the "abusive" nature of encouraging chastity and modesty, so just shut-up about it already!
I posted the video and watched it till the end. I believe there is a way to encourage chastity and modesty in a way that doesn’t use the harmful messages as mentioned in the video.
That is the underlying message. Other videos talk about the guilt and shame women felt after leaving purity teaching and doing stuff sexually. Well, it's normal to feel bad after you have done something wrong.