Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
op a tactful
LOL question asked:
Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?
Premise: modern worship has gone to the devil.
Respondents: agree with the op or be summarily ignored or chastised or insulted as though no question was ever asked, but a conclusion drawn by the op and submitted as a question (because we do not want to sound unreasonable)
Problem: some people take exception to the manner in which the op directs the thread to what he wishes to present as a conclusion rather than a discussion with various opinions and options
Solution: whine and accuse disagreeable respondents of twisting words and not understanding him in order to garner apologies and create the impression of victim to detract from intent
Proof (seeing is believing): research on youtube, that bastion of all that is truthful and beyond question, and dig up examples of well known whackos to illustrate the premise that all modern worship has gone to the devil
Justification: sit back and enjoy the affirmations of your presentation even though it is always the same people who agree with you, while continuing to ignore those who offer any attempt at discussion by employing the previously noted section on solution to problems
*this formula for a positive outcome in a contentious thread is offered at no cost
*the effectiveness of this model is well documented within this thread and has been used effectively in a good number of threads pertaining to the personal interests of the op
*disclaimer: not responsible for hostile comments should you stray in any way from this successful and popular model
LOL question asked:Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?
Premise: modern worship has gone to the devil.
Respondents: agree with the op or be summarily ignored or chastised or insulted as though no question was ever asked, but a conclusion drawn by the op and submitted as a question (because we do not want to sound unreasonable)
Problem: some people take exception to the manner in which the op directs the thread to what he wishes to present as a conclusion rather than a discussion with various opinions and options
Solution: whine and accuse disagreeable respondents of twisting words and not understanding him in order to garner apologies and create the impression of victim to detract from intent
Proof (seeing is believing): research on youtube, that bastion of all that is truthful and beyond question, and dig up examples of well known whackos to illustrate the premise that all modern worship has gone to the devil
Justification: sit back and enjoy the affirmations of your presentation even though it is always the same people who agree with you, while continuing to ignore those who offer any attempt at discussion by employing the previously noted section on solution to problems
*this formula for a positive outcome in a contentious thread is offered at no cost
*the effectiveness of this model is well documented within this thread and has been used effectively in a good number of threads pertaining to the personal interests of the op
*disclaimer: not responsible for hostile comments should you stray in any way from this successful and popular model
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I thought it was a good question. At least for people to ask themselves- you know, for people to really ask themselves "is what I am doing actually worshiping God?"
I totally believe in the entering his courts with praise and thanksgiving. He does inhabit the praises of his people- that's real. But I think if somebody in their own head looks at it as conjuring god- like "im going to praise, so god has to show up" sort of thing- that's where it might go off the rails.
Because we're really entering into his presence, right?- and you don't just go up to the king with the attitude "okay, i praised, so he has to move", the praise has to be with humility and reverence and has to be genuine. I don't know if that's where the OP was going, but that's kinda how I see it.
I totally believe in the entering his courts with praise and thanksgiving. He does inhabit the praises of his people- that's real. But I think if somebody in their own head looks at it as conjuring god- like "im going to praise, so god has to show up" sort of thing- that's where it might go off the rails.
Because we're really entering into his presence, right?- and you don't just go up to the king with the attitude "okay, i praised, so he has to move", the praise has to be with humility and reverence and has to be genuine. I don't know if that's where the OP was going, but that's kinda how I see it.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
SomeDisciple said if someone: looks at it as conjuring god- like "i'm going to praise, so god has to show up" sort of thing- that's where it might go off the rails...yea at worst that's witch craft.At best its comic book stuff..Like by the power of grey skull!!.....We know the bible says to pray always..like Jesus did...because gods always close.
-
1
- Show all
And I think i get what your saying about that repeating, hypnotic, emotional frenzy type of worship that is really just... people being nuts. I don't know what actually happens if you try to "conjure god" but I'm willing to bet that's not what actually happens. That places the target of your worship as something that can be controlled- which is not a characteristic of god, so it turns out that it's not God you are worshiping. We know that demons can be controlled to some extent (of course we aren't supposed to do that by worship).
We see when the jewish exorcists tried using the name of Jesus (not exactly a worship scenario, but...) the demons DO react. Whether it's because God actually made them, or not I don't know. But using Jesus' name irreverently could be a more dangerous practice than people realize.
We see when the jewish exorcists tried using the name of Jesus (not exactly a worship scenario, but...) the demons DO react. Whether it's because God actually made them, or not I don't know. But using Jesus' name irreverently could be a more dangerous practice than people realize.
Look, here's the thing. The point is this.
Prolonged praise and worship that puts people into a sort of hypnotic-like state is a counterfeit. People think they're calling on God; they believe the Holy Spirit responds because they start feeling warm and fuzzy; they believe it's real because that's what they've been told or that's what they want to believe. But they're not really praising God nor are they receiving from the Holy Spirit. It's all an exercise in self-indulgence. They're calling things out of themselves that they misinterpret as God or the Holy Spirit.
You can't say some forms of this sort of thing good and others bad. The whole thing's a sham from start to finish.
Prolonged praise and worship that puts people into a sort of hypnotic-like state is a counterfeit. People think they're calling on God; they believe the Holy Spirit responds because they start feeling warm and fuzzy; they believe it's real because that's what they've been told or that's what they want to believe. But they're not really praising God nor are they receiving from the Holy Spirit. It's all an exercise in self-indulgence. They're calling things out of themselves that they misinterpret as God or the Holy Spirit.
You can't say some forms of this sort of thing good and others bad. The whole thing's a sham from start to finish.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I know that in the Old Testament times, kings hired professional musicians to help them worship God. I know that David danced in his undergarbs before the Lord, and I know that I have been to some hyped up meetings where they say "the Holy Spirit is moving" when it is clearly group hyper-emotionalism built up through the use of creating atmosphere with music.
There is NOTHING wrong with having a good time before God, with dancing away and enjoying music and singing to God at the same time. But there is something wrong with attributing the presence of God, to the experience that is the same as many worldly people can get attending a concert of their favourite pop star. There is nothing wrong with gentle or quiet reverent ties of worship, but again atheists can experience the same sort of "spiritual experience" sitting on the top of a mountain or meditating. Let us not assume any feeling is GOD because it feels good. It doesn't mean it is wrong, it just means it is what it is, a good feeling.
There is equally nothing super holy about limiting singing to soul-less vocal only events, or organ accompaniment only. I really dont think David had an organ player on the back of a cart following him around, and I dont think the walls of Jericho came down after a somber dry tune was played repeatedly. If that is what you enjoy then great, but let us not judge one another on regard the tempo, the instruments or the style of worship, and let us not downgrade the presence of God to an emotional experience linked to the atmosphere or lack of it, that any music can create.
There is NOTHING wrong with having a good time before God, with dancing away and enjoying music and singing to God at the same time. But there is something wrong with attributing the presence of God, to the experience that is the same as many worldly people can get attending a concert of their favourite pop star. There is nothing wrong with gentle or quiet reverent ties of worship, but again atheists can experience the same sort of "spiritual experience" sitting on the top of a mountain or meditating. Let us not assume any feeling is GOD because it feels good. It doesn't mean it is wrong, it just means it is what it is, a good feeling.
There is equally nothing super holy about limiting singing to soul-less vocal only events, or organ accompaniment only. I really dont think David had an organ player on the back of a cart following him around, and I dont think the walls of Jericho came down after a somber dry tune was played repeatedly. If that is what you enjoy then great, but let us not judge one another on regard the tempo, the instruments or the style of worship, and let us not downgrade the presence of God to an emotional experience linked to the atmosphere or lack of it, that any music can create.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You might be right. I went to a church like this at one time, and at the end of service the pastor said something I'll never forget. He said that he would rather be in the church and live righteously, even if there is no afterlife.
I nearly lost it! I was like, way to promote your self-righteousness, while undermining a core principle of the faith. Any idea of him having a real anointing immediately vanished. Of course all I could hear was a roaring AMEN!, but the sound of it didn't phase me- it was like I saw that church naked in that moment, for what it really was. Sad.
But I don't like to think that everyone there was like that. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think it was a cult or anything. Maybe some misguided people, but I don't think the entire place was sinister.
I nearly lost it! I was like, way to promote your self-righteousness, while undermining a core principle of the faith. Any idea of him having a real anointing immediately vanished. Of course all I could hear was a roaring AMEN!, but the sound of it didn't phase me- it was like I saw that church naked in that moment, for what it really was. Sad.
But I don't like to think that everyone there was like that. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think it was a cult or anything. Maybe some misguided people, but I don't think the entire place was sinister.
S
and you know that because you are omnipotent and have eyes everywhere
you are free to abstain from anything you deem to dangerous for your sensibilities and you can caution the 24 elders in heaven when you get there and the throngs of the saved worshipping the Lamb on the throne who lives forevermore
you are just as dangerous as those who do cross a line
neither you nor they should brag
you are free to abstain from anything you deem to dangerous for your sensibilities and you can caution the 24 elders in heaven when you get there and the throngs of the saved worshipping the Lamb on the throne who lives forevermore
you are just as dangerous as those who do cross a line
neither you nor they should brag
I understand the point that you seem to be trying to make and yes there's a difference between prophecy and prophesied.
Let's not forget that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was only mentioned after Jesus was accused of being Beelzebub. Suppose you are wrong 1 time about the newer versions of praise & worship and just once you misjudged what you thought you wittnessed. Are you ready, willing and comfortable in eternal torment?
Let's not forget that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was only mentioned after Jesus was accused of being Beelzebub. Suppose you are wrong 1 time about the newer versions of praise & worship and just once you misjudged what you thought you wittnessed. Are you ready, willing and comfortable in eternal torment?
Wasn't the Holy Spirit within them before this happened?
Acts 4
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Acts 4
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
-
1
- Show all
Show me where the Bible warns about hypnosis occurring during singing songs of praise to the Lord. Why does the Bible use terms like 'joy', 'pleasure', and in the verses I quoted you in the Psalms?
Where is the warning about self-indulgence? Do you think people need to beat themselves with whips while they sing praises to God, lest they have any joy in contemplating the greatness of God?
Do you turn this type of criticism to yourself? How do you know the God you believe in is really the God described in the Bible?
Do you have anything from the Bible at all to back up your theories and accusations?
The Bible warns with the same measure you judged, it will be measured back to you.
-
1
- Show all
It is not for you to determine whether this is true or not, since you do not know what is in the hearts of these people. Only God knows hearts and only God is the one who will decide. In the meantime, confine yourself to the church where you are most comfortable, and leave other Christians to their own kinds of worship.
-
3
-
1
- Show all