Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?
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Okay, so your argument is based on some extra-biblical assumptions about the trinity?
Aren't there differences between the roles of the Father, Son, and Spirit? Did the Spirit die on the cross and rise again? Did the Son declare the Father to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead? Did the Spirit send the Son to the saints as a Comforter after the ascension?
Aren't there differences between the roles of the Father, Son, and Spirit? Did the Spirit die on the cross and rise again? Did the Son declare the Father to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead? Did the Spirit send the Son to the saints as a Comforter after the ascension?
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People would label me as 'charismatic' as i trust in and follow Jesus in the Gospel of John and Acts and 1 Corinthians.
But i agree with you on this.
i greatly enjoy singing, praise worship, dancing in the spirit when He leads just as David did before the Lord - all these are beautiful and have their place in Him, yet i have seen that worship can be manipulated by man for the appeal of the fleshly senses and may even be a form of 'chanting' to usher a person into the 'spirit'.
But i agree with you on this.
i greatly enjoy singing, praise worship, dancing in the spirit when He leads just as David did before the Lord - all these are beautiful and have their place in Him, yet i have seen that worship can be manipulated by man for the appeal of the fleshly senses and may even be a form of 'chanting' to usher a person into the 'spirit'.
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I would just like to ask a question to all those who have mentioned David "dancing before the Lord."
Why do people always resort to this Old Testament event as a reason for why they dance before the Lord in church today? Is it because of a conspicuous absence of any such practice in the New Testament?
2 Samuel 6:12 says: "So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom to the city of David with rejoicing." Does that mean we should keep a replica of the ark handy for when we dance before the Lord?
Why do people always resort to this Old Testament event as a reason for why they dance before the Lord in church today? Is it because of a conspicuous absence of any such practice in the New Testament?
2 Samuel 6:12 says: "So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom to the city of David with rejoicing." Does that mean we should keep a replica of the ark handy for when we dance before the Lord?
Again.
Asking for something from The Father through The Son by The Holy Spirit - is a prayer of entreaty.
Praise and/or worship is not.
The instructions for one cannot be applied to the other.
I know of no scripture that instructs us to marginalise The Holy Spirit in praise. Or any that say is not God.
Or that God is not to be worshipped in all his fullness- Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Asking for something from The Father through The Son by The Holy Spirit - is a prayer of entreaty.
Praise and/or worship is not.
The instructions for one cannot be applied to the other.
I know of no scripture that instructs us to marginalise The Holy Spirit in praise. Or any that say is not God.
Or that God is not to be worshipped in all his fullness- Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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Acts 7:51
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.
Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mark 3:29
but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—
Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him
Ephesians 4:30-31
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.
Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mark 3:29
but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—
Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him
Ephesians 4:30-31
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
You said: "Is it because of a conspicuous absence of any such practice in the New Testament?"
This is funny and gave me a good laugh - sounds like the Pharisees who always went after Jesus for breaking the Law.
If you have not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, then you will never understand the Great Joy that David experienced in the Spirit when he danced - and remember - this thing David did pleased God.
Now, back to the error of relentless chanting as a way to usher in the Holy Spirit, would be a correct assessment.
This is funny and gave me a good laugh - sounds like the Pharisees who always went after Jesus for breaking the Law.
If you have not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, then you will never understand the Great Joy that David experienced in the Spirit when he danced - and remember - this thing David did pleased God.
Now, back to the error of relentless chanting as a way to usher in the Holy Spirit, would be a correct assessment.
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Would it bother you at all to know that Jobe's album, Majestic, which features the song "Holy Spirit," is on the Sparrow Records label? Let's break this down: Universal Music Group is the head>Universal owns Capitol Christian Music Group (CCMG)>Sparrow Records is part of Captial Christian Music Group. CCMG is the "Christian" arm of Captiol Records which has produced artists like Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Alice in Chains, Butthole Surfers, and the like.
My point is this, Capitol is in the business of making $$$, not promoting Jesus. One arm produces artists like those previously mentioned and the other produces Christian artists. They couldn't care less so long as the cash keeps rolling in. Kari Jobe, and many other contemporary worship music artists like her have sold out to Satan to have hit records and to make a name for themselves.
I'm sorry if this spoils the image you have of some of your favorite CWM artists, but as Christians, what are we in the business of: truth or idol worship?
My point is this, Capitol is in the business of making $$$, not promoting Jesus. One arm produces artists like those previously mentioned and the other produces Christian artists. They couldn't care less so long as the cash keeps rolling in. Kari Jobe, and many other contemporary worship music artists like her have sold out to Satan to have hit records and to make a name for themselves.
I'm sorry if this spoils the image you have of some of your favorite CWM artists, but as Christians, what are we in the business of: truth or idol worship?
Some churches make up rules.
No dancing
No skirts above ankle length
No high heels
No haircuts
No music with a beat
No card games on a Sunday
No alcohol, not even a single glass of wine
Bible doesn't say one way or the other on these so we have freedom to use or not use these things. Sometimes these thingss are abused
It would probably be a bit weird and disrespectful to preacher to dance in middle of a sermon . Or during the Lords Supper which is solemn.
It would definitely be a sin to get drunk or to be vain or dress deliberately seductively. Or play cards in a church service. Especially if money involved (gambling is wrong , I think)
But dancing during worship time? Nah
A lady in our church is a trained ballet dancer and sometimes the Holy Spirit would move her to start dancing spontaneously . Nothing demonic happened, nobody I know has a kundolini demon from it....It was just her expressing herself in response to being moved by Jesus ministering to her soul
Another lady at my church would start break dancing for the same reason
Both women are quite modest quiet types and v passionate about the Lord. One of them had severe social anxiety . It made me glad inside to see her being set free to dance. They weren't doing it for attention just in the corner. When someone is being set free from a chain of shyness or any kind of fear it cannot be anything but the Lord. Satan doesn't cast out satan
No dancing
No skirts above ankle length
No high heels
No haircuts
No music with a beat
No card games on a Sunday
No alcohol, not even a single glass of wine
Bible doesn't say one way or the other on these so we have freedom to use or not use these things. Sometimes these thingss are abused
It would probably be a bit weird and disrespectful to preacher to dance in middle of a sermon . Or during the Lords Supper which is solemn.
It would definitely be a sin to get drunk or to be vain or dress deliberately seductively. Or play cards in a church service. Especially if money involved (gambling is wrong , I think)
But dancing during worship time? Nah
A lady in our church is a trained ballet dancer and sometimes the Holy Spirit would move her to start dancing spontaneously . Nothing demonic happened, nobody I know has a kundolini demon from it....It was just her expressing herself in response to being moved by Jesus ministering to her soul
Another lady at my church would start break dancing for the same reason
Both women are quite modest quiet types and v passionate about the Lord. One of them had severe social anxiety . It made me glad inside to see her being set free to dance. They weren't doing it for attention just in the corner. When someone is being set free from a chain of shyness or any kind of fear it cannot be anything but the Lord. Satan doesn't cast out satan
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You never did answer my question. In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services.
I'm also waiting for an answer to where it says anyone in the church was filled with the Holy Spirit and danced before the lord. You keep making what you think are witty comments but you don't seem to have any substance; I'll let that speak for itself.
I'm also waiting for an answer to where it says anyone in the church was filled with the Holy Spirit and danced before the lord. You keep making what you think are witty comments but you don't seem to have any substance; I'll let that speak for itself.