How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

I have followed many many of these pretrib threads. My conclusion?

The pre-tribbers win hands down. No contest. Every single time resoundingly. In fact, the threads are helpful because they expose the post-tribbers to scrutiny and demonstrates that they are holding an empty bag.

But your conclusion ends in error as you reject the clear word of the Lord in 1 Thess 4 and in Rev 20

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

Revelation 20: 4-6

Conclusion: God is the WINNER for He cannot lie and He clearly ties TOGETHER the Saints who were killed for not taking the Mark of the Beast to the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Our Lord also said the Dead in Christ RISE FIRST = 1 Thess 4

So now my Brother - Why do you sin by seeking to establish a heresy that changes the Order of Scripture?

 

[Anthony55]

2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not be, until there b a falling away G646 then man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Hey Rayzor sending you a great big THANK YOU for the Blue Letter Bible website.
Gods blessing to you

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The 24 Elders are indeed a literal 24 Elders
CLUE - 12 + 12

Don't think hard on this, this is a easy one to figure out who they are - peace

As I see it, in Scripture, wherever a group of "24" are referred to, it is always just a solid group of 24... not "12 PLUS 12 [others]".



I see these (a "group of 24") in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 (the "24 courses" of priests);

1 Chronicles 25:1-31 (the "24 divisions/courses" of musicians);

and Numbers 1:3-16[10:4] ("24 names put together" [re: the LEADERS / HEADS] for the numbering of the men of war).





See the following, that I've posted in past posts (for example of one of the above-mentioned):

[quoting from old posts]

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"In 1 Chronicles 25 we have the service of song. "Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." It is called "prophesying" because it so directly brought in God, which is the emphatic meaning of prophesying. "And the number of the workmen according to their service was" - so and so. There were twenty-four courses of the singers. Now, this was another remarkable change. In the tabernacle, song was not the characteristic feature, but sacrifice; but in the temple in the day of glory, the song of triumph is the new and suitable feature."

--William Kelly, 1 Chronicles 25

[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, color, and underline emphasis mine]



[recall my posts about Heb9:8-9a "which is a PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME" (referring to "the tabernacle in the wilderness" due to the "furnishings" named in v.4)... and involving the "STASIS / STASIN" word]




...see also the following commentary excerpt:

[quoting Gaebelein; at BibleHub under Commentaries]

"The Twenty-Four Divisions [Courses] of Musicians" - 1 Chronicles 25

"As we have seen before, Asaph [means "gatherer" or "removed"-TDW notes (from verb-form meaning "assembled, disappear, received, taken away, withdraw")], Jeduthun (Ethan) [means "praising" or "literally, to use (i.e. Hold out) the hand"-TDW notes] and Heman [means "faithful"-TDW notes] were the master leaders in song and music; their service was eminently spiritual, for we read “they should prophesy.” Heman especially is called the king’s seer in the words of God. This is a significant expression. How much there is in what is termed “worship”, which has nothing whatever of the words of God in it. In most of the songs used in our times there is little of the words of God and many contain unscriptural and sentimental phrases. Israel’s worship in song and music was to be spiritual, prophesying and in the words of God. Christian worship is not less. It is to be in spirit and in truth. “Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord” (Colossians 3:16). Asaph had four sons, Jeduthun six, and Heman fourteen, equal to twenty-four. They were divided into twenty-four courses of twelve men each, equal to 288, who served a week in turn. The names of six of the sons of Heman form, in the Hebrew, a complete sentence. Giddalti, Romamti-ezer, joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth (verse 4) may be rendered in English:

I have magnified and I have raised up help;

Sitting in trouble, I have spoken oracles plentiful.

This fact has aroused the suspicion of the critics regarding the genuineness of this entire list of names. “Now this sentence,” saith a critic, “is either an obscure and ancient prayer which hath been mistaken for a list of names by the compiler, or else the compiler has purposely strung together those significant names in such order as to form a sentence” (W.R. Harvey-Jellic). But it is not the mistake of the compiler or an invention. We read that God gave to Heman these sons and the pious Israelite named his sons so as to produce this meaning. There are many such messages in names throughout the Bible. (See annotations on Genesis 5.)

--Gaebelein, on 1 Chronicles 25 [at BibleHub]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine; parentheses original]


[see esp vv.1,6-7,31]

[note: v.1 "with harps [see Rev5], with psalteries [/'earthen vessels'], and with cymbals"...hmmm...]


[end quoting from old posts]

 

[DavidTree]

As I see it, in Scripture, wherever a group of "24" are referred to, it is always just a solid group of 24... not "12 PLUS 12 [others]".



I see these (a "group of 24") in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 (the "24 courses" of priests);
1 Chronicles 25:1-31 (the "24 divisions/courses" of musicians);
and Numbers 1:3-16[10:4] ("24 names put together" [re: the LEADERS / HEADS] for the numbering of the men of war).


See the following, that I've posted in past posts (for example of one of the above-mentioned):

[quoting from old posts]

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"In 1 Chronicles 25 we have the service of song. "Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." It is called "prophesying" because it so directly brought in God, which is the emphatic meaning of prophesying. "And the number of the workmen according to their service was" - so and so. There were twenty-four courses of the singers. Now, this was another remarkable change. In the tabernacle, song was not the characteristic feature, but sacrifice; but in the temple in the day of glory, the song of triumph is the new and suitable feature."

--William Kelly, 1 Chronicles 25

[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, color, and underline emphasis mine]


[recall my posts about Heb9:8-9a "which is a PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME" (referring to "the tabernacle in the wilderness" due to the "furnishings" named in v.4)... and involving the "STASIS / STASIN" word]




...see also the following commentary excerpt:

[quoting Gaebelein; at BibleHub under Commentaries]

"The Twenty-Four Divisions [Courses] of Musicians" - 1 Chronicles 25

"As we have seen before, Asaph [means "gatherer" or "removed"-TDW notes (from verb-form meaning "assembled, disappear, received, taken away, withdraw")], Jeduthun (Ethan) [means "praising" or "literally, to use (i.e. Hold out) the hand"-TDW notes] and Heman [means "faithful"-TDW notes] were the master leaders in song and music; their service was eminently spiritual, for we read “they should prophesy.” Heman especially is called the king’s seer in the words of God. This is a significant expression. How much there is in what is termed “worship”, which has nothing whatever of the words of God in it. In most of the songs used in our times there is little of the words of God and many contain unscriptural and sentimental phrases. Israel’s worship in song and music was to be spiritual, prophesying and in the words of God. Christian worship is not less. It is to be in spirit and in truth. “Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord” (Colossians 3:16). Asaph had four sons, Jeduthun six, and Heman fourteen, equal to twenty-four. They were divided into twenty-four courses of twelve men each, equal to 288, who served a week in turn. The names of six of the sons of Heman form, in the Hebrew, a complete sentence. Giddalti, Romamti-ezer, joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth (verse 4) may be rendered in English:

I have magnified and I have raised up help;

Sitting in trouble, I have spoken oracles plentiful.

This fact has aroused the suspicion of the critics regarding the genuineness of this entire list of names. “Now this sentence,” saith a critic, “is either an obscure and ancient prayer which hath been mistaken for a list of names by the compiler, or else the compiler has purposely strung together those significant names in such order as to form a sentence” (W.R. Harvey-Jellic). But it is not the mistake of the compiler or an invention. We read that God gave to Heman these sons and the pious Israelite named his sons so as to produce this meaning. There are many such messages in names throughout the Bible. (See annotations on Genesis 5.)

--Gaebelein, on 1 Chronicles 25 [at BibleHub]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine; parentheses original]


[see esp vv.1,6-7,31]

[note: v.1 "with harps [see Rev5], with psalteries [/'earthen vessels'], and with cymbals"...hmmm...]


[end quoting from old posts]

lol "not 12 + 12" this is funny

His Body is a Solid Group of - How Many Individuals??? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to infinity

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

His Body is a Solid Group of - How Many Individuals??? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to infinity

--"ONE BODY"

--"A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]"

--"THE MALE [G730 - arsena / arren]" (Rev12:13--where in this context, "the woman" ALSO represents a CORPORATE entity, so to speak... i.e. not an individual "woman")






[Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)--not "to infinity" (as though numbers OF PERSONS are added to it, forever and ever continually, so that no unsaved persons will exist, see.) No. ("UNTIL... [G1525]"--i.e. there's a LIMIT to it--a point in time when it is COMPLETE)]


____________



However, see also my posts about how the "FOUR living creatures" (same Rev4-5 CONTEXT) are connected with the "4-directional plotment OF ISRAEL" in OT times (the "four" being representative of the whole, see)

 

[DavidTree]

--"ONE BODY"

--"A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]"

--"THE MALE [G730 - arsena / arren]" (Rev12:13--where in this context, "the woman" ALSO represents a CORPORATE entity, so to speak... i.e. not an individual "woman")






[Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)--not "to infinity" (as though numbers OF PERSONS are added to it, forever and ever continually, so that no unsaved persons will exist, see.) No. ("UNTIL... [G1525]"--i.e. there's a LIMIT to it--a point in time when it is COMPLETE)]


____________



However, see also my posts about how the "FOUR living creatures" (same Rev4-5 CONTEXT) are connected with the "4-directional plotment OF ISRAEL" in OT times (the "four" being representative of the whole, see)

You guys really try hard - try harder and maybe Scripture will give up and agree with you - lol

This is Scriptural Truth = His Body is a Solid Group of - How Many Individuals??? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to infinity

Just like God said to Abraham - "look up, your Seed will be as the number of the Stars in heaven"

 

[cv5]

As I see it, in Scripture, wherever a group of "24" are referred to, it is always just a solid group of 24... not "12 PLUS 12 [others]".



I see these (a "group of 24") in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 (the "24 courses" of priests);

1 Chronicles 25:1-31 (the "24 divisions/courses" of musicians);

and Numbers 1:3-16[10:4] ("24 names put together" [re: the LEADERS / HEADS] for the numbering of the men of war).





See the following, that I've posted in past posts (for example of one of the above-mentioned):

[quoting from old posts]

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"In 1 Chronicles 25 we have the service of song. "Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." It is called "prophesying" because it so directly brought in God, which is the emphatic meaning of prophesying. "And the number of the workmen according to their service was" - so and so. There were twenty-four courses of the singers. Now, this was another remarkable change. In the tabernacle, song was not the characteristic feature, but sacrifice; but in the temple in the day of glory, the song of triumph is the new and suitable feature."

--William Kelly, 1 Chronicles 25

[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, color, and underline emphasis mine]



[recall my posts about Heb9:8-9a "which is a PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME" (referring to "the tabernacle in the wilderness" due to the "furnishings" named in v.4)... and involving the "STASIS / STASIN" word]




...see also the following commentary excerpt:

[quoting Gaebelein; at BibleHub under Commentaries]

"The Twenty-Four Divisions [Courses] of Musicians" - 1 Chronicles 25

"As we have seen before, Asaph [means "gatherer" or "removed"-TDW notes (from verb-form meaning "assembled, disappear, received, taken away, withdraw")], Jeduthun (Ethan) [means "praising" or "literally, to use (i.e. Hold out) the hand"-TDW notes] and Heman [means "faithful"-TDW notes] were the master leaders in song and music; their service was eminently spiritual, for we read “they should prophesy.” Heman especially is called the king’s seer in the words of God. This is a significant expression. How much there is in what is termed “worship”, which has nothing whatever of the words of God in it. In most of the songs used in our times there is little of the words of God and many contain unscriptural and sentimental phrases. Israel’s worship in song and music was to be spiritual, prophesying and in the words of God. Christian worship is not less. It is to be in spirit and in truth. “Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord” (Colossians 3:16). Asaph had four sons, Jeduthun six, and Heman fourteen, equal to twenty-four. They were divided into twenty-four courses of twelve men each, equal to 288, who served a week in turn. The names of six of the sons of Heman form, in the Hebrew, a complete sentence. Giddalti, Romamti-ezer, joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth (verse 4) may be rendered in English:

I have magnified and I have raised up help;

Sitting in trouble, I have spoken oracles plentiful.

This fact has aroused the suspicion of the critics regarding the genuineness of this entire list of names. “Now this sentence,” saith a critic, “is either an obscure and ancient prayer which hath been mistaken for a list of names by the compiler, or else the compiler has purposely strung together those significant names in such order as to form a sentence” (W.R. Harvey-Jellic). But it is not the mistake of the compiler or an invention. We read that God gave to Heman these sons and the pious Israelite named his sons so as to produce this meaning. There are many such messages in names throughout the Bible. (See annotations on Genesis 5.)

--Gaebelein, on 1 Chronicles 25 [at BibleHub]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine; parentheses original]


[see esp vv.1,6-7,31]

[note: v.1 "with harps [see Rev5], with psalteries [/'earthen vessels'], and with cymbals"...hmmm...]


[end quoting from old posts]

Yes, the book of Revelation is chock full of these kinds of OT types and symbolism. Of which the choice of the term 24 Elders is pertinent.

Someone tell DavidTree that you will never understand the book of Revelation unless you also understand this principle.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Just like God said to Abraham - "look up, your Seed will be as the number of the Stars in heaven"

Here's what I found:

Deuteronomy 28:62
And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God.

1 Chronicles 27:23
But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the Lord had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens.



____________

I recommend (as I have in past posts) that one study the terms "SEED [SINGULAR]" and "SEED [PLURAL]" in the Genesis contexts, to ascertain how Paul is using the one phrase (rather than the other) in his specific Galatians reference.
But BOTH of these are pertinent in other ways/contexts, also, see...

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, the book of Revelation is chock full of these kinds of OT types and symbolism. Of which the choice of the term 24 Elders is pertinent.

Someone tell DavidTree that you will never understand the book of Revelation unless you also understand this principle.

i like that and receive it - thank you

Now can you apply your own words to yourself?

No rapture until after the FIRST RESURRECTION that occurs in Revelation chapter 20 - as our LORD has Declared.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Four times you've left out a very important word in verses 53 & 54 [used 4x in these two verses--but not showing in your quote--G3778 (4x)]:

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-53.htm "the corruptible THIS [G3778]" and "the mortal THIS [G3778]"

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-54.htm "the corruptible THIS [G3778]" and "the mortal THIS [G3778]"







[speaking specifically of "the dead IN Christ" and the "we which are alive" also "IN Christ"--i.e. "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" specifically... "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY"... (not something that was already WELL-KNOWN unto the OT saints: ex. Job, Daniel, Martha re: "IN the last day")]

 

[DavidTree]

Four times you've left out a very important word in verses 53 & 54 [used 4x in these two verses--but not showing in your quote--G3778 (4x)]:

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-53.htm

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-54.htm

Thank you for the notice of leaving out words - what are the words? Display them in the actual scripture verse and in bold so it is easy for my eyes - Thank You

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Thank you for the notice of leaving out words - what are the words? Display them in the actual scripture verse and in bold so it is easy for my eyes - Thank You

Read my post again because I ADDED to what I put (after you grabbed it ); then see the LINKS, which show the part I UNDERLINED (in the addition to my post), set in their context / verses (at LINKS to the interlinear I had provided)

 

[DavidTree]

Read my post again because I ADDED to what I put (after you grabbed it); then see the LINKS

Read the links - you have not singled out the specific words i left out - just post those important words i left out in bold in the scripture.
Easy - thanks

 

[cv5]

You guys really try hard - try harder and maybe Scripture will give up and agree with you - lol

This is Scriptural Truth = His Body is a Solid Group of - How Many Individuals??? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to infinity

Just like God said to Abraham - "look up, your Seed will be as the number of the Stars in heaven"

As TDW has stated, the choice of 24 is representative of the entire corpus. I have pointed out that there is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that the 24 Elders MUST be nothing BUT the Church, the Bride, the Body.

Rev 5:8
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Rev 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Rev 5:10
And have MADE us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Rev 1:6
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 3:21
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

 

[DavidTree]

As TDW has stated, the choice of 24 is representative of the entire corpus. I have pointed out that there is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that the 24 Elders MUST be nothing BUT the Church, the Bride, the Body.

Rev 5:8
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Rev 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Rev 5:10
And have MADE us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Rev 1:6
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 3:21
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

All those Scriptures i rejoice in with You, my Brother - they just do not directly tie in with the 24 Elders = IMHO = i would like to see where the number 24 shows up in Scripture that directly attaches to the 24 Elders as being only symbolic of a large Body of Believers.

I am WITH YOU on this - i just cannot 'add or take away' from Gods words unless God has said somewhere else in Scripture that directly attaches the 24 Elders.

EXAMPLE: Revelation 20 permanently and directly attaches the "Great Tribulation Saints" to the FIRST Resurrection as does Matt 24 & 25 as does 1 Thess 4

Love you guys - thank you

 

[cv5]

As I see it, in Scripture, wherever a group of "24" are referred to, it is always just a solid group of 24... not "12 PLUS 12 [others]".



I see these (a "group of 24") in 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 (the "24 courses" of priests);

1 Chronicles 25:1-31 (the "24 divisions/courses" of musicians);

and Numbers 1:3-16[10:4] ("24 names put together" [re: the LEADERS / HEADS] for the numbering of the men of war).





See the following, that I've posted in past posts (for example of one of the above-mentioned):

[quoting from old posts]

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"In 1 Chronicles 25 we have the service of song. "Moreover, David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." It is called "prophesying" because it so directly brought in God, which is the emphatic meaning of prophesying. "And the number of the workmen according to their service was" - so and so. There were twenty-four courses of the singers. Now, this was another remarkable change. In the tabernacle, song was not the characteristic feature, but sacrifice; but in the temple in the day of glory, the song of triumph is the new and suitable feature."

--William Kelly, 1 Chronicles 25

[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, color, and underline emphasis mine]



[recall my posts about Heb9:8-9a "which is a PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME" (referring to "the tabernacle in the wilderness" due to the "furnishings" named in v.4)... and involving the "STASIS / STASIN" word]




...see also the following commentary excerpt:

[quoting Gaebelein; at BibleHub under Commentaries]

"The Twenty-Four Divisions [Courses] of Musicians" - 1 Chronicles 25

"As we have seen before, Asaph [means "gatherer" or "removed"-TDW notes (from verb-form meaning "assembled, disappear, received, taken away, withdraw")], Jeduthun (Ethan) [means "praising" or "literally, to use (i.e. Hold out) the hand"-TDW notes] and Heman [means "faithful"-TDW notes] were the master leaders in song and music; their service was eminently spiritual, for we read “they should prophesy.” Heman especially is called the king’s seer in the words of God. This is a significant expression. How much there is in what is termed “worship”, which has nothing whatever of the words of God in it. In most of the songs used in our times there is little of the words of God and many contain unscriptural and sentimental phrases. Israel’s worship in song and music was to be spiritual, prophesying and in the words of God. Christian worship is not less. It is to be in spirit and in truth. “Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord” (Colossians 3:16). Asaph had four sons, Jeduthun six, and Heman fourteen, equal to twenty-four. They were divided into twenty-four courses of twelve men each, equal to 288, who served a week in turn. The names of six of the sons of Heman form, in the Hebrew, a complete sentence. Giddalti, Romamti-ezer, joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth (verse 4) may be rendered in English:

I have magnified and I have raised up help;

Sitting in trouble, I have spoken oracles plentiful.

This fact has aroused the suspicion of the critics regarding the genuineness of this entire list of names. “Now this sentence,” saith a critic, “is either an obscure and ancient prayer which hath been mistaken for a list of names by the compiler, or else the compiler has purposely strung together those significant names in such order as to form a sentence” (W.R. Harvey-Jellic). But it is not the mistake of the compiler or an invention. We read that God gave to Heman these sons and the pious Israelite named his sons so as to produce this meaning. There are many such messages in names throughout the Bible. (See annotations on Genesis 5.)

--Gaebelein, on 1 Chronicles 25 [at BibleHub]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine; parentheses original]


[see esp vv.1,6-7,31]

[note: v.1 "with harps [see Rev5], with psalteries [/'earthen vessels'], and with cymbals"...hmmm...]


[end quoting from old posts]

"The names of six of the sons of Heman form, in the Hebrew, a complete sentence. Giddalti, Romamti-ezer, joshbekashah, Mallothi, Hothir and Mahazioth .... "

Yes very common to do exactly that back in that time and place.

The sons of Hosea by Gomer the harlot come to mind:
Jezreel - scattered
Lo-ruhamah - not pitied
Lo-ammi - not my people

 

[cv5]

All those Scriptures i rejoice in with You, my Brother - they just do not directly tie in with the 24 Elders = IMHO = i would like to see where the number 24 shows up in Scripture that directly attaches to the 24 Elders as being only symbolic of a large Body of Believers.

I am WITH YOU on this - i just cannot 'add or take away' from Gods words unless God has said somewhere else in Scripture that directly attaches the 24 Elders.

EXAMPLE: Revelation 20 permanently and directly attaches the "Great Tribulation Saints" to the FIRST Resurrection as does Matt 24 & 25 as does 1 Thess 4

Love you guys - thank you

"they just do not directly tie in with the 24 Elders"

If you have any support to contradict what is so obvious that it cannot be denied....say on.

 

[DavidTree]

"they just do not directly tie in with the 24 Elders"

If you have any support to contradict what is so obvious that it cannot be denied....say on.

What your attempting to say that the 24 are the pre-trib raptured Church is only obvious if you 'add to and take away' from Scripture which is forbidden.

That is why i am asking for Scripture that directly supports your claim.
You either have a genuine claim for pure Gold or it's Chalcopyrite.

Peace

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @DavidTree , I had provided some of that back in Post #807 (pg 41) -

https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4653781

DT: That is why i am asking for Scripture that directly supports your claim.

Think about some of the things I put, back in that post.

 

[rayzor]