Are we to be circumcised?

[Blik]

Scripture is clear, we are not to cut flesh as a sign we belong to the Lord. That is under the old covenant, now the Lord doesn’t speak to us in stone through the flesh but through the heart. We are to be circumcised through the heart.

Galatians 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

Even in the old testament, true circumcision was of the heart, not the flesh.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”

God took away his instructions to cut skin, that was instruction in the flesh, instructions in stone. God improved those same instructions, God put them in our hearts. God is eternal, all his instructions are eternal. In God’s eyes, God saw the spiritual meaning of the fleshly instructions and the instructions he gave in the spirit are eternal.

Christ explained it to us by saying “you have been told” and then “but I tell you”. Christ explained he never changed what his Father said, but Christ went on to explain the meaning of those instructions in stone. We are under the new covenant so we are given the ability to understand the spirit of God in the fleshly instructions.

God only speaks eternal truth no matter who God is addressing, we can depend on those truths to be eternal, but always in the spirit not in stone or fleshly. So we are to know to be circumcised but not to cut flesh.

Romans 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Colossians 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Colossians 2:11-12 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.


I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture.

 

[Mofastus]

Here's 1 as well:

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[gb9]

Scripture is clear, we are not to cut flesh as a sign we belong to the Lord. That is under the old covenant, now the Lord doesn’t speak to us in stone through the flesh but through the heart. We are to be circumcised through the heart.

Galatians 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

Even in the old testament, true circumcision was of the heart, not the flesh.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”

God took away his instructions to cut skin, that was instruction in the flesh, instructions in stone. God improved those same instructions, God put them in our hearts. God is eternal, all his instructions are eternal. In God’s eyes, God saw the spiritual meaning of the fleshly instructions and the instructions he gave in the spirit are eternal.

Christ explained it to us by saying “you have been told” and then “but I tell you”. Christ explained he never changed what his Father said, but Christ went on to explain the meaning of those instructions in stone. We are under the new covenant so we are given the ability to understand the spirit of God in the fleshly instructions.

God only speaks eternal truth no matter who God is addressing, we can depend on those truths to be eternal, but always in the spirit not in stone or fleshly. So we are to know to be circumcised but not to cut flesh.

Romans 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Colossians 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Colossians 2:11-12 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.


I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture.

as much as we disagree elsewhere, i agree with you on this.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Scripture is clear, we are not to cut flesh as a sign we belong to the Lord. That is under the old covenant, now the Lord doesn’t speak to us in stone through the flesh but through the heart. We are to be circumcised through the heart.

Galatians 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

Even in the old testament, true circumcision was of the heart, not the flesh.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”

God took away his instructions to cut skin, that was instruction in the flesh, instructions in stone. God improved those same instructions, God put them in our hearts. God is eternal, all his instructions are eternal. In God’s eyes, God saw the spiritual meaning of the fleshly instructions and the instructions he gave in the spirit are eternal.

Christ explained it to us by saying “you have been told” and then “but I tell you”. Christ explained he never changed what his Father said, but Christ went on to explain the meaning of those instructions in stone. We are under the new covenant so we are given the ability to understand the spirit of God in the fleshly instructions.

God only speaks eternal truth no matter who God is addressing, we can depend on those truths to be eternal, but always in the spirit not in stone or fleshly. So we are to know to be circumcised but not to cut flesh.

Romans 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Colossians 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Colossians 2:11-12 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.


I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture.

I think most who do circumcision is because of modern culture stigma or because in runs in the family as in no one asks questions, they just do it. As with the case for me and my brother and then my kids. Nothing spiritual even came up.

 

[MatthewWestfieldUK]

Thankfully I have not been cut

 

[ewq1938]

Even in the old testament, true circumcision was of the heart, not the flesh.

No, it was also of the flesh for male children.

https://www.gotquestions.org/circumcision.html

"Circumcision is the surgical removal of the prepuce, or foreskin, of a male. The word circumcise literally means “to cut around.” As a religious rite, circumcision was required of all of Abraham’s descendants as a sign of the covenant God made with him (Genesis 17:9–14; Acts 7:8). The Mosaic Law repeated the requirement (Leviticus 12:2–3), and Jews throughout the centuries have continued to practice circumcision (Joshua 5:2–3; Luke 1:59; Acts 16:3; Philippians 3:5)."

 

[Blik]

No, it was also of the flesh for male children.

https://www.gotquestions.org/circumcision.html

"Circumcision is the surgical removal of the prepuce, or foreskin, of a male. The word circumcise literally means “to cut around.” As a religious rite, circumcision was required of all of Abraham’s descendants as a sign of the covenant God made with him (Genesis 17:9–14; Acts 7:8). The Mosaic Law repeated the requirement (Leviticus 12:2–3), and Jews throughout the centuries have continued to practice circumcision (Joshua 5:2–3; Luke 1:59; Acts 16:3; Philippians 3:5)."

Do you think that God sees it as of the flesh or of the spirit? How do you think God wants us to think of it? Remember that God asks us to be in the world but not of the world.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you think that God sees it as of the flesh or of the spirit?

God commanded physical circumcision for Jewish males. He wanted another type of the heart.
God does not command physical circumcision for Christians even if one is a racially Jewish male.

 

[p_rehbein]

I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture.

You and I have disagreed, respectfully, in the past. So, my question is:

If you have a good understanding of this, why are you so messed up on ALL THE REST?

 

[p_rehbein]

as much as we disagree elsewhere, i agree with you on this.

GB........I am very, very unhappy with you guys........

Your defense is WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too good!

 

[Blik]

God commanded physical circumcision for Jewish males. He wanted another type of the heart.
God does not command physical circumcision for Christians even if one is a racially Jewish male.

It is really important to know if God is a God of all or only a God of a few people. If God said only Jews should mark themselves as his, then God is not a universal God but a God of the Jews and we have parents who are not Jewish so we need not listen to God.

 

[Blik]

You and I have disagreed, respectfully, in the past. So, my question is:

If you have a good understanding of this, why are you so messed up on ALL THE REST?

View attachment 231229

I quote scripture, and people object to scripture especially when Christ told us that if you love me you will obey me. They don't even hear me say Christ forgives, they just say that don't want to hear about obedience and blame me for that scripture as if I personally told them to obey not the Lord. I am even asked to ask God for forgiveness for quoting that, saying it means I am falsely accusing them of sin when they are actually a person without sin, even though God says there is no such thing.

It is amazing you accept this scripture, you are saying you reject all other scripture.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I've never heard of anyone going about with a knife trying to ehm...... convert believers.
Is this an issue in modern congregations?

 

[BillG]

Makes my eyes water.

Thankfully I'm under the NC

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[


I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture. [/QUOTE]

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32-33, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers?

hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:3-5, 7-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a better word now spoken by Jesus Christ beginning here

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there was an old testament that was broken and another one promised that would be not according to the broken one


“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The two covenants one through angels and Moses and the other through the lord Jesus Christ don’t go together one ended and the other began. One is only a pattern the other is reality

 

[ewq1938]

If God said only Jews should mark themselves as his, then God is not a universal God

No, you are using flawed logic. It's a historical fact that God wanted the Jews to live differently from others which included circumcision. An exception was made for some gentiles that lived with the Jews.

 

[justbyfaith]

I welcome your comments and why some wlll disagree with my interpretation of scripture. [~/QUOTE]

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32-33, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers?

hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:3-5, 7-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a better word now spoken by Jesus Christ beginning here

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there was an old testament that was broken and another one promised that would be not according to the broken one


“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The two covenants one through angels and Moses and the other through the lord Jesus Christ don’t go together one ended and the other began. One is only a pattern the other is reality

Of course, one cannot say that the law of Moses is nowhere included in the New Covenant.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[Blik]

No, you are using flawed logic. It's a historical fact that God wanted the Jews to live differently from others which included circumcision. An exception was made for some gentiles that lived with the Jews.

I think you are getting things pretty mixed up. You are speaking of it being a historical fact that God wanted Jews to mark themselves as belonging to God, then do you think God did not want gentiles to belong to Him? That makes no sense. Scripture tells us God wants all man to belong to Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course, one cannot say that the law of Moses is nowhere included in the New Covenant.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

look at your quote there

“Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;”

the apostles gathered to consider the question

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-6‬ ‭

they decided that Moses law was not part of it

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law is for these people

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel is about a new creation , putting the sinner to death and being born again as Gods children notice you don’t hear Moses preaching this type of thing ?

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

instead he taught this type of thing for something like pre marital sex

“Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not Gods law it’s Moses judgement for the children of Israel ordained by angels when they transgressed any of Moses laws from the pattern he was shown by God on the Mount we have come to a different mount and a better word by far

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)



But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There is a separation between Moses word and Jesus word a severance and fulfillment of something much better it happens at this point

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The law was only meant to last until John the Baptist was inprosoned and this happened

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s a reason Jesus didn’t repeat what Moses said but was always saying the contrary things because Moses law wasn’t meant to save anyone or justify anyone but to impute sin and hold the entire world guilty ( remember it is for the ungodly 1 Timothy 1:9-10 )

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are two covenants in scripture one preceded the other but the y are not meant to be mixed together is all I’m saying

 

[justbyfaith]

When we come to faith in Christ, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5); which love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10).

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Those who are spiritually-minded have peace with God, for they are subject to the law of God and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7).

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). And, that means, that when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven by virtue of the fact that we are bearing the fruit of, among other things, goodness.

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets, that it is indeed righteousness (Romans 3:21).

Because it is not achieved by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but it is achieved through faith in Christ by whom we receive the Spirit; and again, when we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

But the result is the same; that we will be inadvertently obedient to the moral tenets of the law.

While it is not the same; since if someone attempts to be obedient through obeying a set of do's and don'ts, they will utterly fail.

While being obedient because we have the Holy Spirit and walk according to His leadings and guidings, is the only way that we can succeed at living a life that is pleasing to God.

It is even written,

1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.