What do you think about works?

[Radius]

If you live under the law you are not under grace. If you are under grace you are a Christian whose sins are forgiven by Christ. When you live by grace you put Christ in your heart with perfect faith in all Christ is and says. Christ says that if you love me you will obey me. If we listen to Christ with faith in this that Christ has told us it does not mean we are then "under the law" because we know the law teaches us how to obey Christ. We let the law guide us through faith in Christ, not faith in the law for salvation.

It is an error to believe Christ teaches lawlessness. If we did not let the law guide us then we would be lawless. We are dead to the law, the law has no ability to kill us for we have Christ. As scripture tells us: Psalm 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

do you think Christians believe they can just get saved and go on a 100% sin spree with reckless abandon? I don't.

Why is it all or nothing, hot and cold? Why can't you understand most Christians believe in good works, but those good works do not justify us or condemn us, they are merely an outward sign of faith and a love-response to Jesus. I don't know any Christians who get saved then rub their hands together and pull out a checklist of evil sins they get to partake in and look forward to. If they do that, then I agree, something is off.
Im just trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Radius]

There are 2 faults we need to be careful of...
The first error is trying to work your way to heaven. Our greatest efforts can not bring us into harmony with God. God came to rescue us by grace and it is faith in that gift of grace by which we are saved.
The second error is thinking that we are free from keeping Gods commandments, that we can continue in sin and break the law because God's grace will cover our sins.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

We do not earn salvation by our obedience; for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith. But obedience is the fruit of faith. “Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.” 1 John 3:5,6

I agree. It's this fine line that Blik doesn't understand.

 

[BroTan]

Brother. I just don;t think you will get it.

According to the law. He had to not break the law from birth. Just falling in one sin would cause him to be cursed.

He did not keep the law. Even from his youth. Jesus tried to explain it to him by telling him to seek all he had.

He did not get it, and I am afraid. You do not get it. Which is worrysome

The thing is you are not getting it, this why you continual adding to the text. Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place. Paul says in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, The young man wasn't sinning wilfully, he was told by Jesus what he was lacking, not sinning!
Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Let's take a look at another example of this in Genesis 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Now Abram heart was more toward the Lord then the young man situation, let's see what Lord told Abraham to do.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Let's skip down to verse 25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

So when the Lord told Abram to do something he did it right way, with no sorrowfulness. Abraham circumcise everyone that same day. The young man was told to be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thing is you are not getting it, this why you continual adding to the text. Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place. Paul says in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, The young man wasn't sinning wilfully, he was told by Jesus what he was lacking, not sinning!
Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Let's take a look at another example of this in Genesis 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Now Abram heart was more toward the Lord then the young man situation, let's see what Lord told Abraham to do.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Let's skip down to verse 25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

So when the Lord told Abram to do something he did it right way, with no sorrowfulness. Abraham circumcise everyone that same day. The young man was told to be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Good luck my friend.
he went away because he loved money more than God

Jesus exposed that truth in him, he refused to acknowledge or repent of it.

the law failed as a schoolmaster in that mans life

i just pray it does not fail in yours

 

[Hone]

The rich young man is a great example of WORK's, He tells us that "he kept the LAW's since youth" but there was no LOVE (GOD) in him, so keeping the commandments is WORK's for him and anyone else like him, BUT if he did have the love (GOD)in him, wouldn't he have given away all his possession, and followed Christ, then his LAW keeping WOULD have been awarded to HIM. Christ himself invited him to follow him, knowing the young didn't have GOD in him....so the difference between keeping the LAW's and it becoming WORK's is having GOD guiding your commandment keeping.... this revelation came to me reading the last couple of post.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The rich young man is a great example of WORK's, He tells us that "he kept the LAW's since youth" but there was no LOVE (GOD) in him, so keeping the commandments is WORK's for him and anyone else like him, BUT if he did have the love (GOD)in him, wouldn't he have given away all his possession, and followed Christ, then his LAW keeping WOULD have been awarded to HIM. Christ himself invited him to follow him, knowing the young didn't have GOD in him....so the difference between keeping the LAW's and it becoming WORK's is having GOD guiding your commandment keeping.... this revelation came to me reading the last couple of post.

HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW SINCE HIS YOUTH

HE THINKS HE DID. And jesus tried to correct him. But like you. HE DID NOT SEE THE TRUTH

NO ONE HAS KEPT THE LAW SINCE ANY TIME

John says if we (born again believers) say we have no sin WE DECIEVE OURSEVES!

so how can a man who IS NOT BORN AGAIN< be without sin since his youth?

 

[Hone]

HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW SINCE HIS YOUTH

HE THINKS HE DID. And jesus tried to correct him. But like you. HE DID NOT SEE THE TRUTH

NO ONE HAS KEPT THE LAW SINCE ANY TIME

John says if we (born again believers) say we have no sin WE DECIEVE OURSEVES!

so how can a man who IS NOT BORN AGAIN< be without sin since his youth?

the Bible clearly states he did, but you say he didn't.... the young man States he did, but you say he didn't, SO he kept them alright, but he did it with his own understanding, not GOD's..... I thought as Christians we are to help lead others to Christ, that would be very hard to do if you ridicule, shame or condescend any of GOD's children, who EVERYONE is until they choose or deny Christ. How can the spirit of Christ live in people, who intentionally, berate and chastise their fellow brother or sister. Where is the Love (GOD) in you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the Bible clearly states he did, but you say he didn't.... the young man States he did, but you say he didn't, SO he kept them alright, but he did it with his own understanding, not GOD's..... I thought as Christians we are to help lead others to Christ, that would be very hard to do if you ridicule, shame or condescend any of GOD's children, who EVERYONE is until they choose or deny Christ. How can the spirit of Christ live in people, who intentionally, berate and chastise their fellow brother or sister. Where is the Love (GOD) in you.

No it does not

THE MAN SAYS HE DID. JESUS DID NOT TELL HIM HE DID.

If the man loved his money AT THAT TIME more than God. HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW SINCE BIRTH.

He did not just sin at that time, that sin had been ongoing

which PROVES he DID NOT KEEP the law since birth.

 

[BillG]

No it does not

THE MAN SAYS HE DID. JESUS DID NOT TELL HIM HE DID.

If the man loved his money AT THAT TIME more than God. HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW SINCE BIRTH.

He did not just sin at that time, that sin had been ongoing

which PROVES he DID NOT KEEP the law since birth.

Evening bro.
Well it is over here.
Sat here watching the Ryder Cup and the Europeans being spanked.

Anyway can't quite catch what's going on here concerning the rich young man?
What's the disagreement?

 

[Hone]

As Christians we are called to LEAD other's to Christ, we are expected to reach others with the knowledge we attain and retain. The negative attitudes I keep mentioning, ABIDE in us all, as does CHRIST.
If my compressing of those attitudes, so that I treat other's as expected from a CHRISTIAN, then I am guilty of WORK's, because the other option is I'm not a CHRISTIAN, nor am I a decent human being.
Shouldn't we ALL (Christians) be living with the fruits of the Spirit IN us, which include goodness & kindness.

 

[Hone]

No it does not

THE MAN SAYS HE DID. JESUS DID NOT TELL HIM HE DID.

If the man loved his money AT THAT TIME more than God. HE DID NOT KEEP THE LAW SINCE BIRTH.

He did not just sin at that time, that sin had been ongoing

which PROVES he DID NOT KEEP the law since birth.

like I said he did it with HIS understanding, that concept isn't hard to understand, course people still do it now.

 

[Ogom]

the Bible clearly states he did, but you say he didn't.... the young man States he did, but you say he didn't, SO he kept them alright, but he did it with his own understanding, not GOD's..... I thought as Christians we are to help lead others to Christ, that would be very hard to do if you ridicule, shame or condescend any of GOD's children, who EVERYONE is until they choose or deny Christ. How can the spirit of Christ live in people, who intentionally, berate and chastise their fellow brother or sister. Where is the Love (GOD) in you.

just as there are levels of understanding, there are levels of law- keeping (obedience to Christ). we should seek to come up (arise) to the next level, and the next. not so many want to do this (the young man for instance). the love of the world is too great. and so they will go away... or stay how they now are (unwilling to sell [give up] all they process for Christ)... and/ or may become against God [against Truth -- Christ] (unknowingly perhaps) and rail / or speak out against the message of righteousness... to their quite possible detriment. misleading themselves and others along with them -- because of the lack of really wishing to follow and learn from The Master and Teacher... but instead wishing to stay as they are (in their heart of hearts -- and chosen/ inherited dotrines/ ways of life/ ways of thinking/ believing) and so they stay... they do not come and follow Christ really (Truth). although they might halfway -- as did the rich young ruler.

 

[Hone]

like I said he did it with HIS understanding, that concept isn't hard to understand, course people still do it now.

You are correct in the sense, that what the young man did from youth IS work's, because he did not have GOD in him when he did them.
AS you have rightly also commented.

 

[Blik]

do you think Christians believe they can just get saved and go on a 100% sin spree with reckless abandon? I don't.

Why is it all or nothing, hot and cold? Why can't you understand most Christians believe in good works, but those good works do not justify us or condemn us, they are merely an outward sign of faith and a love-response to Jesus. I don't know any Christians who get saved then rub their hands together and pull out a checklist of evil sins they get to partake in and look forward to. If they do that, then I agree, something is off.
Im just trying to understand where you're coming from.

I don't see the connection you are making between going on a spree and letting our life reflect God within us. How do you connect those ideas? I read many posts about the danger of work for the Lord, but nothing about this going on a spree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Evening bro.
Well it is over here.
Sat here watching the Ryder Cup and the Europeans being spanked.

Anyway can't quite catch what's going on here concerning the rich young man?
What's the disagreement?

Home thinks he was sinless since youth. And all he had to do was sell all his stuff and he would have done everything God said he had to do to recieve eternal life

I believe He THOUGHT he obeyed all the law since his youth. But Jesus tried to expose the truth and get the guy to repent. So Jesus,. Knowing he loved money more than God. Said one thing you lack. Sell everything

instead of repenting. They guy went away sad. Because he loved money more than God

Is the Europeans your team?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

like I said he did it with HIS understanding, that concept isn't hard to understand, course people still do it now.

He still did not do it

And even if he did sell all he had. He will would have fallen short.

You forget. Jesus knew the man. Thats why he chose the one thing he KNEW he would not do.

 

[BillG]

Home thinks he was sinless since youth. And all he had to do was sell all his stuff and he would have done everything God said he had to do to recieve eternal life

I believe He THOUGHT he obeyed all the law since his youth. But Jesus tried to expose the truth and get the guy to repent. So Jesus,. Knowing he loved money more than God. Said one thing you lack. Sell everything

instead of repenting. They guy went away sad. Because he loved money more than God

Is the Europeans your team?

Yep my team.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep my team.

Sorry about that Bro

 

[BillG]

Home thinks he was sinless since youth. And all he had to do was sell all his stuff and he would have done everything God said he had to do to recieve eternal life

I believe He THOUGHT he obeyed all the law since his youth. But Jesus tried to expose the truth and get the guy to repent. So Jesus,. Knowing he loved money more than God. Said one thing you lack. Sell everything

instead of repenting. They guy went away sad. Because he loved money more than God

Is the Europeans your team?

What I find interesting

Mark 10:18-19
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
19 You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

Let's break this down.

Do not commit adultery - 7th commandment
Do not murder - 6th commandment
Do not steal - 8th commandment
Do not bear false witness - 9th commandment
Honor your father and your mother - 5th commandment.

No mention of number 10.

You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Interesting he did not ask him that.

BUT BUT.

Jesus said

"Do not defraud"
Now that is not part of the 10 commandments discussed here?
It's not, nothing in the 10 saying do not defraud.

My assumption is and it must be correct because Jesus quotes the commandments in a particular order.
He would have known the 10 verbatim.

So why say "Do not defraud" before he asked the rich you man before quoting command 5?

Why did Jesus not quote the first 4?

 

[BillG]

Sorry about that Bro

Yeh right