The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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I love the truth of God's Word.
That I do not agree with your dogma has no bearing on my love for God's Word.
On the other hand, the fact that you know words have been added to the text and you continue to utilize words added to the text in order to prop up your dogma ... now that speaks volumes concerning your love for God's Word.
Reminds me of satan's discussion with Eve in the garden of Eden ... add a word here, change a word there, fall away in erroneous dogma.
That I do not agree with your dogma has no bearing on my love for God's Word.
On the other hand, the fact that you know words have been added to the text and you continue to utilize words added to the text in order to prop up your dogma ... now that speaks volumes concerning your love for God's Word.
Reminds me of satan's discussion with Eve in the garden of Eden ... add a word here, change a word there, fall away in erroneous dogma.
Yes, I read your post and I did find many wresting of the scriptures. You tried in subtlety, in your explanation that was not in the text just to suit your own belief. I quote:
"14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Now death has been abolished in regards to everyone Christ died for, ..."
Nothing in the verse says that his death covers only a few selected ones. Calvary covers it ALL.
"14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Now death has been abolished in regards to everyone Christ died for, ..."
Nothing in the verse says that his death covers only a few selected ones. Calvary covers it ALL.
Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !
Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He sanctifies those He died for, this is confirmation of Heb 10:10. Notice Jesus said that they may be sanctified in the Truth. So Part of Christ's effects of His Death, is that those whom He died for, should be sanctified through the Truth ! The Holy Spirit is given to Him for that Purpose, remember Acts 2:33, so each person Christ's died for, and prayed that they should be sanctified through the Truth, the Holy Spirit effects that 2 Thess 2:13146
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Yes, the Holy Spirit performs this work, however its because of the merits of Christ's Death and how it sanctifies those He died for !
Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He sanctifies those He died for, this is confirmation of Heb 10:10. Notice Jesus said that they may be sanctified in the Truth. So Part of Christ's effects of His Death, is that those whom He died for, should be sanctified through the Truth ! The Holy Spirit is given to Him for that Purpose, remember Acts 2:33, so each person Christ's died for, and prayed that they should be sanctified through the Truth, the Holy Spirit effects that 2 Thess 2:13146
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Yes, the Holy Spirit performs this work, however its because of the merits of Christ's Death and how it sanctifies those He died for !
Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !
So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of the Truth, or its called Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. This also answers the Redeemers prayer for all whom He died Jn 17:17-20
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The prep eis unto can mean into, so it could read:
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, into obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Now this sanctifying work of the Spirit unto Gospel obedience, is the FRUIT of Christ's Death, His One offering of Heb 10:10 ! All Persons Christ died for are automatically Sanctified [once and for all] by the Divine Purpose, even before actual childbirth as sinners, even as Jeremiah was Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Yet, this did not mean that Jeremiah would not still be born a sinner, a child of wrath by nature as others, and not needing to be born again, but all that would occur by the Divine Purpose in due time so that he could fulfill his call as a prophet. However in God's Purpose, Jeremiah was always sanctified and set apart for God's Holy Purpose, his being born a sinner could not thwart that Purpose, neither for any other person Christ died for and set them apart for God's Holy Purpose in the Body of Christ. It is simply impossible for anyone Christ died for to not in time be sanctified by the Spirits Work unto obedience so they can perform the works God hath already ordained before that they should walk in Eph 2:8-10147
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of the Truth, or its called Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. This also answers the Redeemers prayer for all whom He died Jn 17:17-20
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The prep eis unto can mean into, so it could read:
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, into obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Now this sanctifying work of the Spirit unto Gospel obedience, is the FRUIT of Christ's Death, His One offering of Heb 10:10 ! All Persons Christ died for are automatically Sanctified [once and for all] by the Divine Purpose, even before actual childbirth as sinners, even as Jeremiah was Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Yet, this did not mean that Jeremiah would not still be born a sinner, a child of wrath by nature as others, and not needing to be born again, but all that would occur by the Divine Purpose in due time so that he could fulfill his call as a prophet. However in God's Purpose, Jeremiah was always sanctified and set apart for God's Holy Purpose, his being born a sinner could not thwart that Purpose, neither for any other person Christ died for and set them apart for God's Holy Purpose in the Body of Christ. It is simply impossible for anyone Christ died for to not in time be sanctified by the Spirits Work unto obedience so they can perform the works God hath already ordained before that they should walk in Eph 2:8-10147
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Your whole premise is faulty and is contradicted by truth of Scripture
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Since the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) and we know from Matthew 7:21-23 that there will be some to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will say I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity, we know that your dogma does not align with Scripture.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Since the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) and we know from Matthew 7:21-23 that there will be some to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will say I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity, we know that your dogma does not align with Scripture.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
The forgiveness of sins !
Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
The word preached here is the greek word kataggellō and means:
to announce, declare, promulgate, make known
2) to proclaim publicly, publish
3) to denounce, report, betray
The word conveys the idea of making something known ! What is being made known or declared, or published to some is that they have by the grace of God, and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, they have the forgiveness of all their sins ! Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This is not an offer of forgiveness of sins that is contingent upon any conditions of men, not faith, not repentance, not water baptism, but solely upon the Blood of Christ shed on their behalf, the blood of the Covenant Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The remission of sins is the same as the forgiveness of sins !148
All those whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for have before the Justice of God, and His Holy Law, they have forgiveness of sins before they are even born into this world as sinners ! It has not been made known to them until they are born again from above and the Gospel of their Salvation is preached unto them !
Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
The word preached here is the greek word kataggellō and means:
to announce, declare, promulgate, make known
2) to proclaim publicly, publish
3) to denounce, report, betray
The word conveys the idea of making something known ! What is being made known or declared, or published to some is that they have by the grace of God, and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, they have the forgiveness of all their sins ! Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This is not an offer of forgiveness of sins that is contingent upon any conditions of men, not faith, not repentance, not water baptism, but solely upon the Blood of Christ shed on their behalf, the blood of the Covenant Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The remission of sins is the same as the forgiveness of sins !148
All those whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for have before the Justice of God, and His Holy Law, they have forgiveness of sins before they are even born into this world as sinners ! It has not been made known to them until they are born again from above and the Gospel of their Salvation is preached unto them !
The forgiveness of sins !
There was Legal forgiveness of the sins of the elect before the world began because of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, when Christ was established as the Surety of the Elect or of the Sheep, and therefore no sin of theirs could be legally imputed to their Charge, but unto the charge of their Surety, so the Elect were forgiven of all Trespasses, before they actually Trespassed in Adam! When they Trespassed in Adam, God could not legally charge them with sin. David understood this Transaction and wrote Ps 32:1-2
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
There was Legal forgiveness of the sins of the elect before the world began because of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, when Christ was established as the Surety of the Elect or of the Sheep, and therefore no sin of theirs could be legally imputed to their Charge, but unto the charge of their Surety, so the Elect were forgiven of all Trespasses, before they actually Trespassed in Adam! When they Trespassed in Adam, God could not legally charge them with sin. David understood this Transaction and wrote Ps 32:1-2
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
By whom we received the Atonement !
Rom 5:11
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[Christ] we have now received the atonement.
By whom we have now received the atonement or the reconciliation. What Paul means here is that all for whom Christ died, by Him also, they receive all the benefits of His Death, as God said in Rom 8:32
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give[Bestow upon] us all things?
The word give here is the greek word charizomai and means:
to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify
a) to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon
c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow
1) to forgive
2) graciously to restore one to another
3) to preserve for one a person in peril
With Christ God gives forgiveness Eph 1:7, He gives restoration !
By Him, they receive experimental Saving or Salvation by New Birth. This receiving of the atonement or reconciliation is the fulfillment of the promise in vs 10 Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Yes, the receiving of the atonement experimentally is being saved by His Life and it brings about their experimental salvation, the application of it is by Him. All this is another way of saying being born again or from above, which is through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,155
Peter here uses the same preposition dia here for by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, as Paul uses in Rom 5:11 " by whom we have received the Atonement !
Folks as risen Saviour of the Church, Christ applies the Atonement that He achieved for each one He died for and rose again as their Saviour ! Not one for whom He died shall be Lost !
Rom 5:11
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[Christ] we have now received the atonement.
By whom we have now received the atonement or the reconciliation. What Paul means here is that all for whom Christ died, by Him also, they receive all the benefits of His Death, as God said in Rom 8:32
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give[Bestow upon] us all things?
The word give here is the greek word charizomai and means:
to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify
a) to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon
c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow
1) to forgive
2) graciously to restore one to another
3) to preserve for one a person in peril
With Christ God gives forgiveness Eph 1:7, He gives restoration !
By Him, they receive experimental Saving or Salvation by New Birth. This receiving of the atonement or reconciliation is the fulfillment of the promise in vs 10 Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Yes, the receiving of the atonement experimentally is being saved by His Life and it brings about their experimental salvation, the application of it is by Him. All this is another way of saying being born again or from above, which is through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,155
Peter here uses the same preposition dia here for by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, as Paul uses in Rom 5:11 " by whom we have received the Atonement !
Folks as risen Saviour of the Church, Christ applies the Atonement that He achieved for each one He died for and rose again as their Saviour ! Not one for whom He died shall be Lost !
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
The words "we have now received" are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
HELPS Word-studies
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
The words "we have now received" are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
HELPS Word-studies
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
By the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead !
1 Pet 1:2-3
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Here we have by Divine inspiration that the resurrection of Christ, by way of His Redeeming Death, is being viewed as the meritorious cause of the New Birth performed by the Spirit of the Covenant, so it is feasible to call the Second Man Adam, who is Christ an Quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
That word quickening is the greek word zōopoieō and means:
to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing
As the Risen Adam, having paid for the sins of all for whom He died, for all whom sins had been laid to His Charge Rom 4:25, and now having satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf, they have the right to live Spiritually before God, so He causes them to Live, He gives them Spiritual Life.
He does this for His Seed Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
This is why as the Risen Lord He is a Life Giving Spirit, to give Spiritual Life to all for whom He died. Thats why He said of His Sheep Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Life here is Spiritual Life, which His Death for them shall merit ! And so by His Resurrection He lives and shall save them by His Life Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Thats what Paul means, shall be saved by His Life that of 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Christ must make Alive Spiritually, all for whom He died and rose again ! And He does by His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3156
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
This being begotten again means:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
1 Pet 1:2-3
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Here we have by Divine inspiration that the resurrection of Christ, by way of His Redeeming Death, is being viewed as the meritorious cause of the New Birth performed by the Spirit of the Covenant, so it is feasible to call the Second Man Adam, who is Christ an Quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
That word quickening is the greek word zōopoieō and means:
to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing
As the Risen Adam, having paid for the sins of all for whom He died, for all whom sins had been laid to His Charge Rom 4:25, and now having satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf, they have the right to live Spiritually before God, so He causes them to Live, He gives them Spiritual Life.
He does this for His Seed Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
This is why as the Risen Lord He is a Life Giving Spirit, to give Spiritual Life to all for whom He died. Thats why He said of His Sheep Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Life here is Spiritual Life, which His Death for them shall merit ! And so by His Resurrection He lives and shall save them by His Life Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Thats what Paul means, shall be saved by His Life that of 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Christ must make Alive Spiritually, all for whom He died and rose again ! And He does by His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3156
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
This being begotten again means:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
Do you understand Scripture?
Scripture clearly states that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Therefore, your premise that "all for whom Christ died does receive resurrection life" is based upon faulty dogma. There is too much manipulation of Scripture to get to your limited atonement dogma ... and I, along with others in this forum, will point out your manipulation of Scripture.
Scripture clearly states that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Therefore, your premise that "all for whom Christ died does receive resurrection life" is based upon faulty dogma. There is too much manipulation of Scripture to get to your limited atonement dogma ... and I, along with others in this forum, will point out your manipulation of Scripture.